My "top landing" at Bills Hill

[FlyingFelix]

Bills was looking great, a bit strong, sustained winds around 12-14 MPH with some gusts.
Looked friendly, many pilots already in the air flying wings of all types from topless to SS gliders.
I got to launch, winds were either straight in or switching from N and S. It was supposed to be an ESE day but winds seem to have been prevailing from ENE.
I waited for a good cycle (after a couple of switching gusts) and launched. Launch felt strong, I was going out and up. I wanted to make sure and stay in the lift band and initiated a right turn - THE great mistakes I see: I should of turned left, towards the North since the strongest gusts were coming in from that direction; also I was not well clear of the terrain yet (it felt like I was but I should of kept going out more). Nonetheless I felt I cleared the hill and since I was going out and up I felt OK to go ahead and turn. Once I initiated the turn and went back to center I felt the wing kept going to the right towards the hill. I tried my best to fix the turn but could not get the wing to turn, it just wouldn't do it (strong NE gust?). Once I decided I cannot fix the turn I accepted my faith and tried to aim for a spot that looked rich in branches - I pushed out on impact and made it through the first tree then got hung between 2 trees (one wing in each).
It's funny how it all happens so quickly watching the video, but when there time slowed down and through my mind went thousands of thoughts, possibilities, disbelief, etc...

Lessons learned: clear the terrain by a bigger margin, especially on a new site; turn into the prevailing wind even if its switching often and undecidedly; leave all VG off in stronger conditions (I had 1/4 on, the usual I've used for mountain sites, I find it easy to handle and it makes easier to clear the hill, though when strong...I should probably take it all off).

Here's a copy of the video that made it (the second, control bar mounted camera, blanked out). The keel camera got caught in a branch, the mount broke and the camera took a swirling fall to the ground, glad it made it and a fellow pilot found it (again, I suck at remembering names)
I hope myself and others will learn from my mistakes and misfortune.

http://youtu.be/0xnv0HWXEv4

Physically and psychologically I feel fine, I've been running the events over and over in my mind, dissected the video frame by frame...learned a lot and hope I will not do the same mistakes again.
Again, thank you all for your support and I'll see you in the air soon! - as soon as I find a wing to fly that is, anyone got a U2 160 or Discus 15 for sale??


PS. Last night my wife was playing with GarageBand and decided to make a sound track for this special event - I attached that as well, a tragic-comic take on the whole shebang.

http://youtu.be/kj20rxHc2hY

[theflyingdude]

Felix, glad you're alright. From my perspective in the set up area, it looked like you were pushed out a bit much for being so close to the trees, particularly on a day that was a bit ratty near the ridge. I have a couple photos of you hanging in the tree, but I don't know how to upload photos to this website. I was the one who called 911 after we determined there was a potential need for their services. One thing that helped significantly in the rescue was Jerry Heins (sp?) and I having rope with us that was essential in the tree extraction-process. I would encourage everyone to add 50' - 75' of good rope and a small tree saw to the list of equipment they take to the hill when they go flying. Also, flying with some small diameter rope or even dental floss weighted on the end will make tree rescue a lot easier as it provides a way to get a rope up to the stranded pilot.

JR

[jyoder111]

Felix, so glad you are alright. Better the glider than you!!

After closely examining your video, I have a couple things to note:

1. First, look at your telltale on your front wires at 0:55 in the video. Shortly after you launch, you hit a gust head on.



2. Two seconds later, as you're turning to the right, you're still encountering that strong wind, as your telltale shows.



3. At 0:58 you begin to respond to the right turn and try to recover. Your telltale continues to show strong wind, now on your left. Note, however, that your shoulder is behind the downtube. You look to be flying little faster than trim.



4. At 0:59 you're still getting hit by wind from your left, your shoulder is behind the downtube, limiting your ability to pull in for more speed, and you appear to be cross-controlling.



5. At 1:01 it looks like you start resigning to your fate and push out to maneuver into the trees. You're still getting hit from your left, and it again looks like you're cross-controlling.

My take away from this is the need for extra speed when flying close to terrain in complex conditions. There have been a couple times where gusts have turned me into the hill and I've flown away because I've stuffed the bar and dove straight at the hill before banking away at the last moment. It's hard to tell how much clearance you had in this video, but I wonder if pulling in might have given you enough control to escape the leaves. Again, so glad you're alright. Hope to see you back in the air soon!!

Jesse

[jyoder111]

Also, note how in a high bank situation, it's physically very very difficult to maintain proper whole-body weight-shift to the high side if you are pushing out. It looks like your torso and feet do a little wag back to center, just as you need them to be shifted as far left as you can. Being pulled in slightly gives you much greater leverage to swing your hips to the high side and keep them there.

Jesse

[FlyingFelix]

Thanks Jesse, you are correct. I was desperately trying to go left and fix the right turn, I tried to do so as hard as I could, but the forces I was battling were much stronger than what I could manage to do. I was aware a bit of cross-controlling was taking place but I couldn't fix it hard as I tried. As I was trying to fix it I thought about diving in though I was pretty sure there was not enough clearance below and I didn't want to nose down on a tree...
Watching the video and thinking back on it I'm not sure there's much more I could of done to fix the situation. I should of banked to the left to begin with and I would of had a great flight and an intact glider...would of could of...lesson learned.
I'm sure I'll be up in the air in no time.

[sailin]

Felix , very happy to hear that you are okay. Scary stuff. Hope you are able to get back in the air soon....still lots of the season left

From the video, I would agree with the observations about the lack of appropriate air speed, right off launch and close to terrain. Thank you very much for posting about this incident and showing the video so we can all walk away with something positive from this incident. Heal fast bro and look forward to seeing you back in the air soon!!

Let us know if we can do anything for you,

Jon

[FlyingFelix]

Felix, glad you're alright. From my perspective in the set up area, it looked like you were pushed out a bit much for being so close to the trees, particularly on a day that was a bit ratty near the ridge. I have a couple photos of you hanging in the tree, but I don't know how to upload photos to this website. I was the one who called 911 after we determined there was a potential need for their services. One thing that helped significantly in the rescue was Jerry Heins (sp?) and I having rope with us that was essential in the tree extraction-process. I would encourage everyone to add 50' - 75' of good rope and a small tree saw to the list of equipment they take to the hill when they go flying. Also, flying with some small diameter rope or even dental floss weighted on the end will make tree rescue a lot easier as it provides a way to get a rope up to the stranded pilot.

JR

Thank you for your help JR! I will from now on add a few things to my HG setup, including a hefty rope and a new dental floss pack in my harness (to get the rope up with, I meant to do this before and never did, would of come in real handy!). I don't remember being pushed out too much, but since all you guys are seeing that I'll definitely be more aware of that from now on.

Jesse, I wish I would of looked at the talltale before initiating the right turn, definitely show clearly the wind coming in from the left! It might of been set too high, I'll lower it so it's always in my field of view.

[lbunner]

Ahem, Felix at the risk of sounding a bit harsh, I think you aren't quite analyzing your launch correctly. Jesse has nailed it for you yet you still seem to think it was conditions and not pilot. If you look at the first photo that Jesse published, you can clearly see that the wind was not from the left. It was either straight in or slightly from the right. The issue is your angle of attack not wind direction. I don't see any noticeable pull in once in the air. This is critical in the mountains when you don't know what is going to hit you right after launch. As Jesse pointed out, pulling in gives you much better roll authority for that unexpected lifting wing. On a strong wind day there is no need to immediately turn off of launch. If you must then do it with more airspeed. Again, I think you need to reanalyze what happened, if you think turning left was the only option to a successful launch then you are missing the boat. Sorry for being so blunt but I want you to learn from this and not pass it off to "conditions".

[Danny Brotto]

Felix

I’m sorry that you trashed your glider but happy that you are alright. I hope you get your glider situation worked out; either repaired or a new one. BTW, if you decide to get a new glider don’t discount a Sport 2 in your list of targeted gliders.

Thanks for posting the vid. From Jesse’s analysis of the telltale, it looks to be a classic skidding turn. Pushing out will not correct it. Moving your body to the high side will not correct it. These maneuvers exacerbate a skidding turn. The right wing is likely stalled and the left wing is still flying. Moving your body left and/or pushing out further stalls the right wing. This is a spin maneuver and the glider obliged and dumped you into the trees.

I found this video on an intentional spin to illustrate my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z40_2oue374

While the glider does not have a streamer, check out the vg line. Notice that the pilot holds the spin by high siding and pushing out… the steamer/vg-line is pointed opposite of the turn. Sound familiar? Recovery is by pulling in and neutralize the high siding.

A number of folks have chimed in with good input. I know that you’ll take all of these inputs and process them to help you become a better pilot.

Very best wishes,

Danny Brotto

[FlyingFelix]

Ahem, Felix at the risk of sounding a bit harsh, I think you aren't quite analyzing your launch correctly. Jesse has nailed it for you yet you still seem to think it was conditions and not pilot. If you look at the first photo that Jesse published, you can clearly see that the wind was not from the left. It was either straight in or slightly from the right. The issue is your angle of attack not wind direction. I don't see any noticeable pull in once in the air. This is critical in the mountains when you don't know what is going to hit you right after launch. As Jesse pointed out, pulling in gives you much better roll authority for that unexpected lifting wing. On a strong wind day there is no need to immediately turn off of launch. If you must then do it with more airspeed. Again, I think you need to reanalyze what happened, if you think turning left was the only option to a successful launch then you are missing the boat. Sorry for being so blunt but I want you to learn from this and not pass it off to "conditions".

With all due respect for much more seasoned pilots: I do appreciate all inputs, but I believe the whole video should be closely watched before posting.
This picture shows the North wind gust that came in after I was running down the hill ( it looked to be straight when I started launching), you can see the telltale as well as the streamer to the right screaming North:

This picture shows me correcting the right turn I was being pushed into, the telltale still shows wind coming from the left.

This picture shows the original BIG mistake, initiating a Right turn - wtf was I thinking? The telltale clearly shows a cross coming from the left (North):

The above picture shows I was pulled in quite a bit, I do try to pull in and gain as much speed as I can on each and every foot launch I ever make. Compare the bar position in that picture to this one that shows my normal position at trim or a little bit pulled in:



I felt like I had gained plenty of speed, and once the right turn was initiated I considered I cleared the hill and so let the bar out a bit. Yes, I know now that it was very wrong both to let the bar out and initiate the turn so early - though had I turned to the left instead of to the right during the same time frame it all would of been fine.

Jesse's pictures and comments come in exactly at time and he is definitely spot on. Unfortunately while flying I did not immediately recognize the problem that I was already in, and by the time I did I and scrambled to fix it was too late. This part has already been discussed.

I do not blame anything but myself, my decisions and reactions. I'm not trying to pun this off on the Nature and/or Conditions. I am interested in knowing exactly what happened and make sure it will never happen again.

Please don't take this post the wrong way, I mean no disrespect and appreciate every posting.

Hope great flights have been had today at Bills Hill and hope to see you guys up in the air soon.

[XCanytime]

One other thing Felix that has not been mentioned is whenever you are flying that close to the ridge terrain you should try to keep your nose pointed at least at a 30 degree angle relative to the spine of the ridge. 45 degrees would even be better. Your nose pointed away from the ridge gives you some breathing space to manuever in case your outboard wing gets lifted and you get turned towards the mountain. Looking at the video your right turn has you flying parallel to the spine of the ridge, therefore your nose angle is 0 relative to the spine of the ridge. A slight lifting of your outboard wing now points your nose at the mountain at an angle of around -20 degrees relative to the spine of the ridge. Had your nose been pointed 30 degrees away, the 20 degree angle change towards the mountain would still have your nose pointed 10 degrees away from the mountain spine. May have been enough to prevent the incident. Bacil

[lbunner]

Hmmm.... Felix my gut is churning listening to your analysis of your flight again. You make an assumption that I did not look at the video in detail many times before I posted. Then you 'launch' into how if you had only turned left you'd have been ok. Maybe, maybe not. You made enough mistakes that right or left the probability of a blown launch were pretty equal (imo). You remark how the wind was screaming from the left yet in the first pic you posted, the left streamer is clearly straight in or even from the right. Further in the video as you turn right I see the streamer again pointing from the right. The point is this, the conditions were dynamic, it was a spring thermally day in the mountains. You must be ready for this type of air. You state "I do try to pull in and gain as much speed as I can on each and every foot launch I ever make" yet you clearly are barely pulled in at all on your launch (again imo). I'm used to seeing pilots diving through the bar a bit on their launches. Your bar is out in front the whole time. If the video represents how you typically launch, then I recommend getting with an expert like John Middleton to revisit your technique. You were just plain too slow coming out of the slot. If your technique was better, it would not have mattered whether you turned right or left, you would have had a good launch! I do appreciate getting to analyze the video as it definitely reinforces my need to be more aggressive in my launches and to be less worried about getting up and more concerned with gaining airspeed before I initiate any turns.

[deveil]

There is a consistency in all the analysis that's been provided and there's probably no benefit in focusing on how one particular bit has been packaged, though there have been some very nice bows and ribbons.

It still impresses me how much benefit can be had by posting these videos and having free access to so much expertise and insight. And it's all there for the taking. Pretty cool.

[deveil]

One thing that helped significantly in the rescue was Jerry Heins (sp?) and I having rope with us that was essential in the tree extraction-process. I would encourage everyone to add 50' - 75' of good rope and a small tree saw to the list of equipment they take to the hill when they go flying. Also, flying with some small diameter rope or even dental floss weighted on the end will make tree rescue a lot easier as it provides a way to get a rope up to the stranded pilot.
JR

I believe it was Marc Fink who showed some of us how to use that rope in conjunction with your harness and carabiner to rappel down from a tree. I remember practicing it in my backyard tree and thinking it was pretty nifty.

[FlyingFelix]

Thank you all that have posted!
I'll sum up what I take away from the whole ordeal: I do believe I had a decent initial launch and picked up good speed during launch but I gave up on that too soon and turned. It definitely was very active air and I should of stayed pulled in (and pull more in) and clear the hill by a big margin before turning (to any direction). I see that as the main problem. I still do believe a turn to the left instead of to the right would of saved me.
"Launching" is not over until you are well clear of the hill enough to deal with whatever comes at you; in rough conditions this margin is much bigger. I thought I was done "launching" and turned - silly me. Now I know!
I do practice launches in nil wind as well as light tail wind to make sure and learn to put a lot of speed and energy into the wing on launch. I use the same type of approach to every foot launch I do. I will definitely continue to pay attention to my launches and make sure I pull in and stay that way until well clear of the hill and with enough clearance to deal with whatever comes at me.
I will be watching all my other launches and see if there's an inherent problem I need to work on - I started filming every flight early in my training and continue doing so, this way I can analyze my flying to see if I do anything wrong, my primary reason for filming.

As far as the actual crash - it was much more brutal than I you'd think (those who experienced this before must know what I'm talking about). It was more scary and harsh than what I would imagine such a crash would be. I am very lucky to have gotten away with only minor bruises. I am sorry for the wing but better it than me (may be salvageable after all, we'll see).

I hope this video will not only serve as study material for other pilots but help someone stay out of such an ordeal. Believe me, it was terrifying.
I will leave the video up and available.

Again, many thanks to all of you.

[darbbb]

Thanks for posting it, Felix. It was a good discussion with some great insights from pilots I hold in very high regard. A good learning moment for everyone.

Brad

[kcarra]

Hi Felix

The video did look really violent and scary. I'm so happy that you aren't seriously hurt.

All of us who saw Larry Ball launch yesterday were really impressed. He was so smooth and efficient. His nose angle did not change at all. If you only saw the glider moving and not the pilot you would have thought that it was on wheels. It looked like he was really moving the glider through space instead of just running down the hill. Wish we had a video of it.

Karen

[mingram]

The crash looked brutal. The impact had so much speed and the camera flying off and spinning to the ground made it look even more dramatic. The tree didn't look like those "happy little trees" that Bob Ross painted about. More like the angry trees from Wizard of Oz. I'm surprised it didn't try to eat you or spit you out. I'm very glad you're ok and sorry it happened to you.

[hang_pilot]

Hi, Felix-

Like everyone else, I am SO glad you are ok, and grateful that you posted the video so we can all learn from it.

You write, "The above picture shows I was pulled in quite a bit." 1) I wouldn't say quite a bit, and 2) that shot was from before you got into trouble. It looks like you are pushing out in this frame:

I agree with Danny, it sure looks to me like you slipped a turn.

I had a crash right after launch at a NC site in 2008 that felt a lot like yours looks. It took me a while to come to the conclusion that I had mushed the glider. I've also crashed on the training hill by unintentionally slipping a turn close to the ground. Regardless of what you take away from your crash, watching your video has me focused on how I can avoid crash #3 from the same mistake.

Best,
Daniel

P.S. Your wife has a good sense of humor!

[brianvh]

Great post of a video: it takes a professional mindset to post your mistakes so dramatically.

The only thing I have to add to what's been said is when looking at your attempts to turn away from the the ridge, they looked like gentle day corrections. I've had plenty of situations induced by piss poor flying lapses in my life, and what's gotten me out of more of them than I deserved was throwing my whole body into the turn, usually out of sheer terror. I seem to yank in when terrified too, and I spin on a dime even if I lose altitude from an uncoordinated turn.

So what I saw missing from your flight was the "FUCK NOOO!!!" reaction. Having had the crash you may have now developed the FN reaction as a consequence....

Then again, you may have felt too close to the trees to attempt anything dramatic. Hard to tell even with a video.

[brianvh]

btw, I wasn't implying your flying was 'piss-poor', Felix - that's a term I usually reserve for me. As others noted you were mainly flying a bit slow for the conditions, which is an easy mistake to make in spring or after a stretch of smooth day flying.

[RichH]

First glad you are ok..Glad you posted the video and are willing to hear some feedback...This time of year you can hit the strongest thermal conditions of the year.. Pilots that have not flown in high lapse rate type conditions can fall prey to all sorts of problems that they might not encounter on a more stable type of day (especially at launch and final approach) Imagine if you made this mistake coming into to land ..My input first would be to become more knowledgeable about your acceptable flying window..Second you've received some excellent feedback from Larry and Danny, Bacil and others who are outstanding pilots who are calling it the way it is..Please take their feedback and learn from your mistake..After watching the video I believe that you were flying to slow for your position on the ridge..and your left wing became stalled..( Turbulance, thermals etc..close to the ridge probably helped or added to the problem)..On a strong thermal day it is always wise to give yourself more room and a more speed when flying near obstacles on launch and on landing ..

[XCanytime]

I think a very important point is getting lost in this discussion. While all the discussion of airspeed, flying too slow, cross-controlling and such, is valid for what ensued once shit started hitting the fan, I contend that Felix should have never put himself in the position of flying parallel to the ridge in the first place, i.e. that his FIRST mistake was turning too far to the right. Read all of Pagen's literature and he stresses that you ideally should never ACTIVELY position your nose less that 30 degrees off center with the spine of the ridge. This is to ensure that in case you do get your outboard wing lifted, that you have a large margin that enables you to maneuver and get the glider pointed away from the ridge w/o impacting any solid objects. Of course this is assuming you have enough airspeed to perform the maneuver of turning away from the mountain. Remember that any accident is a pileup of many errors made, not just one single error. The first error was turning too far and having a nose angle of 0 degrees with the spine of the mountain, leaving very little maneuvering room in case shit starts hitting the fan. I will close with quoting an old adage of flying that applies big time to this event that states "the superb pilot uses his superb judgement to not be put into a position where he has to use his superb skills". Bacil

[Dave Proctor]

Felix, First off, glad you are OK. Gliders can be replaced. Thanks for posting the video, we can all learn from this. Not to be piling on, but I still don't think you appreciate what happened. You launched and attained a marginal amount of speed, and then initiated a turn, not only too close to the trees but with your arms pushed out quite a bit. You can ignore the advice and analysis of many seasoned pilots and keep thinking it was conditions, that is up to you. And yes, I have watched the video repeatedly. Look at your arm positions, you have the bar way out. Next time you go flying, watch the bar positions of others when turning low. I will add one more point. When flying towards a solid object it is very difficult to pull in for control authority, but that is what is required until there is no hope of avoiding impact. In general, if your glider is not responding to your control inputs you need to add more speed, regardless of the speed you are flying.

Thank you again for posting,

Dave P

[FlyingFelix]

Yes, you guys are completely correct.

I watched the video again after a break, with a "fresh viewpoint" - as an outsider looking at someone else's video. I can see clearly what went on now, without the "fog" of the memories I had from the actual flight:

I simply stopped "launching" when I initiated the premature right turn, and let the bar out way early. I also do think I could of been pulled more in as soon as I went to the base tube. By the time I turned right I was near trim and already in a "ridge pass" mind set. The right turn went too far (as Bacil correctly stated) - I then struggled to fix a continuing right turn only with side weight-shift, without pulling in. As I approached the hill and tree line I pushed the bar out more - guess I was anticipating the impact and probably tried to make it less brutal.

Right after the accident I looked at the video over and over again, started analyzing it frame by frame and "splitting the atom". I was pulling at straws and watching every twitch of the Telltale to see what went wrong and what crazy wind got a hold of me... I was looking for the problem in the wrong place - I was doing this because I was remembering having a strong launch; I am confident in my launches and so I took that possibility out of the equation. I do see clearly now that while my initial launch looks good, by the time I went prone, to the base bar, I simply did not pull in enough. Also, once the "shit hit the fan" my reactions are most definitely "piss-poor" - you can call my flying piss-poor anytime you see me do it Brian, I do not mind one bit.

I cannot believe the guy I'm watching is me. I have flown in similar and stronger conditions several times before. I know better! WTF was I doing?
I know that speed is your friend on launch and landing, especially more so when conditions are rough. What made me let the bar out so early?? I can't say... I remember it felt OK to do that at the time - that feeling cost me a LOT.
I did go back and watched a bunch of videos from previous mountain launches and was glad to find those look very different. I normally have the base bar much more pulled in and for much longer. Why not this time? I had a great flight at Calver Cliffs the day before - was I too tired and still stuck in smooth conditions mode?

I cannot believe I wrote that perhaps Mr. Larry Bunner didn't watch the whole video before posting. I would like to apologize to him and to you all. I am sorry! I made an ass out of myself. I was in a daze and perhaps felt my ego being attacked, it was already fragile after what happened, a humbling experience.
I do believe I have a touch of the "Intermediate Syndrome", I'll try and keep that in check.
There are many lessons for me associated with this accident - I am glad and lucky to be fine and will be a better pilot all around for it.
You all have provided me with valuable input that I appreciate it all!
Hope to see many of you soon in the air.