Improving The Woodstock Launch

[lbunner]

Okay, I'll kick this topic off with a few thoughts on what I think it will take to improve the safety of this launch. 1) I'd posit that the trees at the bottom and sides of the launch slot have grown taller since it was first cut many years ago. I can say with confidence that as the trees grow, the air in the slot is becoming more turbulent with each year (even if only minuscule). As such, I'd recommend that we take the necessary steps to reduce the height of the trees in the slot. 2) From what I remember the launch is a bit of a torcherous path to navigate. A few years ago one of the club members was going to add gravel to eliminate this distraction but don't remember why it didn't happen. I'd recommend that we take the steps to do this too. 3) Lastly, the rock outcroppings below launch are a significant hazard that will eventually eat a glider or hurt a pilot. I'd recommend that these be removed as well. My qualifications for making these recommendations are based on only a handfull of visits to the site. Hopefully this can kick off some healthy dialogue that will result in actions to improve the quality of this beautiful site. Let's hear it from the experienced pilots on what needs to be done to make this happen.

[RichH]

I agree both are very good suggestions..not sure who are contact is at the forest service but I think it would probably be a easy sell to take out a few trees at the base and along the sides.Removing Boulders may prove a bit more difficult.It would be great if we could bring in enough soil to create a nice running area along with a few spots to set up gliders..Not sure if we can get the forest service to agree .

[RichH]

Im happy to make contacts and arrange a discussion with the Forest Service..anyone have a name or contact there??

[Joe Schad]

Six or seven years ago a group of us cut all the trees out of the current slot. the slot has not grown back much since. Some of the trees below the access path/road at the bottom of the slot were also cut but have grown back.

I believe it will be difficult to eliminate the bolders on the hill without heavy equipment. Ideally we could put tons of dirt on the whole area to make it a smooth grassy area covering the large bolders. But I doubt we could get the equipment or permission necessary for such an undertaking.

I think we should consider construction a large ramp. One that starts behind the two large bolders where hang glider pilots ususally stand to begin launch and goes all the way down to the large bolder halfway down the hill. I would make it wide enough for a paraglider pilot to lay out his wing on the ramp(say 50-60ft wide) and allow for a long running launch. This would be expensive but would not require the maintenance of some of the other options. Do we have an engineer in the group who could possibly design such a ramp?

We could improve the setup area with dirt and distruction of some of the larger rocks.

Joe

[Dave Proctor]

I will have to take a close look at the launch next time I am there. My recollection is that we could carry in buckets of soil and just fill in the gaps between the rocks below and plant grass. An option would be to use gravel and stone dust to just fill in the gaps. I would be happy if we could just get another 20-30 feet of safe runway. I would not want to build another ramp for a number of reasons: cost, maintenance, liability (we aren't liable for the side of the mountain, but if we put a 'structure' on the side of the mountain the situation changes), construction effort, and paraglider friendliness would require a huge ramp.
I am in for this project.

[deveil]

i spent a good bit of time one day, long ago and far away, on my own, putting in the cobbled stone area from which everyone starts their run. i chose to do that because previous efforts with dirt or gravel didn’t last very long and were quickly dispatched by mother nature, and i had some time on my hands.
when we first worked on that launch, we took out all the stuff that ten guys muscling with pry bars could tackle. my guess is that dirt and muscle won’t accomplish what you’re after.
btw, i’ve never met any pilot who ever took the attitude of survival of the fittest or thinning out the weak ones regarding anything to do with hang gliding.

[Matthew]

Main Info--
George Washington and Jefferson National Forests
Supervisor's Office
5162 Valleypointe Parkway
Roanoke, VA 24019
1-888-265-0019
540-265-5100

For Woodstock---

Lee Ranger District
95 Railroad Avenue
Edinburg, VA 22824
540-984-4101

[RichH]

No ramp just some grading and adding of soil to give a better running area..That would be a huge improvement and probably would be a small investment in time and money..I think trying to remove the boulders would be too expensive..I'll contact the Forest Service today to see whats involved and what it will take to get this done...If all agrees we can move forward with some runway improvements...

[mcgowantk]

If we are going to improve just the running area, I don't think we need to involve the Forest Service. We should contact them if we want to alter the trail up to launch to enable some sort of vehicle to carry stone up there or if we cut down trees to expand the slot.

Tom McGowan

[RichH]

I think we will need to bring in some soil to the area to improve the launch..Not sure if we move ahead with out letting someone know would be wise..Discussing it with them can open a can of worms..but if we need to bring in a small truck load and have a work party without the Forest Services knowledge we run the risk of endangering our relationship with the Forest Service..I think it all depends on the degree of improvement..If we want a long term solution with a decent running surface I feel a discussion with the Forest Service is necessary..

[deveil]

Dave,
if you'd let me know when you're going i'd gladly do a survey with you, and maybe others would be interested. better and easier to kick things around on site than here.
gary
703 - two for one - oh tutu five

[dbodner]

I think we will need to bring in some soil to the area to improve the launch

It'll be great...until the next time it rains. Some serious stonework might work. But, Gary's experience should be heeded.

As someone else suggested, I think the launch point has migrated downward over the years. Several feet of stonework might alleviate that.

[RichH]

I think the runway at the northern launch is still in good shape and its been years since it has been touched..and it had stone foundation with a fill in of gravel and soil and it has lasted a long time.. Again, not suggesting a huge project..just raising up a small degree to cover the rocks that are protruding from the ground..maybe a foot or so would do..possibly build a loose foundation of rock then fill it in so the soil doesnt wash away...

[garys]

I agree that most of the issues stem from iffy launch technique but I think that a clean runway will help to ensure good technique such as reducing the possibility of a stumble on the launch run. To do this would require tons of gravel to be brought in and spread. To keep the gravel in place would require ground cloth to be put down first which also has the benefit of eliminating future plant growth. The ground cloth is not required for larger stone, just smaller stone like crusher run which has the benefit of being the cheapest thing you can buy at the quarry but heavy rains will wash it downslope with out ground cloth. Larger stone might be the way to go so it really stays put. To get the stone to the site would require a dumptruck to pick it up from a local quarry which is fairly close (Strasburg) and a small four wheel drive tractor or skidsteer loader (Bobcat) to transport the stone up the path to launch. This will cost about $150.00 per day as a rental. I have a dumptruck so I can haul the stone. Last time I bought crusher run it was $8.00 per ton. I can haul about 5 tons. Moving the big boulders is not an easy task like applying elbow grease to pry them up and rolling them down the hill. They are the tip of the county and quite permanently attached to Hell down below. They need to be jack hammered out. To jack hammer them, would require an air compressor which could be towed in and placed in the parking lot or parked on the lower road. Airhose can be run to the jackhammer at launch. I have a compressor that I can tow in place and a jackhammer on loan from Bruce Engen so if you really want to tackle this job let me know. I'm not up for making all of the phonecalls to get permission to do this work. Just though I'd offer up some tools and labor. Gary

[deveil]

oop! maybe the nominations for the Keepin 'It Real award were closed prematurely.

(tough nookies to dissenters)

[lbunner]

Sounds like Gary S has the means. All we need now is the brawn to make it happen! Is it possible that this can happen yet this winter?

[sailin]

You can put me firmly in the "the launch technique is the most important issue" camp.......but if there is some improvement work to be done to the slot, I will certainly contribute any way I can. I'll stand by for further.........

Jon

[markc]

The true nature of the launch at Woodstock isn't going to change without a significant monetary investment. It is a narrow slot launch, and that's just the way it is, until/unless it becomes possible to expand the site to something that's several _multiples_ of the current dimensions.

I've had two botched launches there: One was a bonafide crash back in the mid-90's, 100% pilot error. The other was more subtle. But it was also, at its heart, pilot-error, because I was paying more attention to the streamers and the trees, rather than to how the wing actually *felt* . Luckily, no serious damage in either incident.

To be honest, the current conditions of the launch seem better to me than they were when I had my first high-flight there, 15+ years ago. The shape is now more fan-like: narrower at the top and broader at the bottom, which channels the air flow. This is really helpful on days with a significant W or N cross. And we've all benefited from the efforts of certain weekend weed-warriors whose efforts aren't often acknowledged...

I will definitely support any efforts to improve the launch: A longer run-out with fewer rock outcrops can _only_ be an improvement. But that said, I just want to temper expectations a bit: A slot is a slot is a slot, ya know?

MarkC

[Dan T]

I'm not sure but I think Woodstock might be State rather than National Forest. When I first started going there in the mid 90s you could easily see all 7 bends of the Shanendoah River from the Woodstock tower. Now you can barely see any of it. All of the trees have grown substantially in that time. The slot is a good deal wider but not substantially easier. I think anything short of an effort similar to Gary Smith's recommendation will be a waste of time.

Dan

[Dave Proctor]

I don't think anyone is expecting (or proposing) a miracle here, just provide a longer runway for light wind days and maybe clean up a little of the vegetation.

[RichH]

Here is what I suggest that we meet with the Forest Service and see if we can improve the launch run area..If it is a small area Im hoping it can be done under trail improvement and we can move fairly quickly. I still think it would be wise to meet with the Forest Service so I have called and arranged a meeting for Jan 5th with the District Ranger who oversees our launch area..I encourage anyone to join me ..If you would like another representative that is fine ..but I have some time and feel I can be of some help in getting this project started...Rich Hiegel

[jyoder111]

After reviewing one of my videos of launching from Woodstock, it appears to me there are a few large rocks that could perhaps be removed to make the launch run a bit longer. I know someone mentioned a few rocks are too big to pry out. I'm not sure if this is one or not.

See the big rocks at about 3 seconds into the video? Removing a few of these would make it much smoother for another 10 ft or so.


Jesse

[Ward Odenwald]

Rich, thanks for taking the time and effort. I could be wrong but didn’t you work for the Forest Service? Ward

[RichH]

Yes I did..for the Maryland State Forest Service and then the National Park Service for awhile as well..Thanks Rich

[dbodner]

A couple of Forest Service cops ambled by while I was setting up at Woodstock. When I said we might want to perform a little site maintenance, one gave me the following point-of-contact information:

Wade Bushong
US Forest Service
(540) 984-4101