my SIV with Dave Prentice

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pink_albatross
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:20 pm
Location: Ellis from Arlington

my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by pink_albatross »

Here's my account. Some details might be debatable, I haven't taken good notes and the ones I took are not handy just now.

Short version: Ended up in the water fully clothed three times. Still had a blast.

Slightly longer version:

Stephane, Michael, Carlos and I went down to Florida for SIV with freshly injured Dave Prentice. I had reservations about going, but Dave wanted to do the SIV. Had actually done one the weekend before (fresh out of the hospital) and he seemed to like the distraction. Carlos had gone early to get his P2, but had had really bad luck with the weather. Not going to talk much about Stephane, Michael's and Carlos's experiences, hoping they'll post themselves (hint hint).

Friday: was blown out. We hung around for a bit at Florida ridge. Dave gave us theory. We attached the winch to the back of his van. Then went to Ft. Myers for linner at the beach. Still blown out when we got back.

Saturday we moved to Sebring. Big lake, with wide shallow water and a big grassy area, which is usually under water, but after a couple of years of drought, a great place to land.
Forecast was for windy, but Dave thought we all could get a flight in in the morning.
Boat for tow (from miami) was superlate and the winds had picked up to about 10 mph.
No worries, says dave...
okay, whatever you say, you da man...
did some kiting. was really on the edge. This is when Dave started making comments about the wing being too big for me.
Kited Carlos's wing (size small). Had a blast kiting it. Thanks, Carlos! Understood what Dave meant about my wing being too big.
soooo easy to kite Carlos's wing. Although of course twitchier with the higher wing loading. My wing takes a moment to respond, so i have to make sure not to make too big of an input, while Carlos's wing responds almost instantaneously.

Due to rustiness and new wing, Michael decided to wait for lighter winds. Dave didn't even want to let Carlos try in those winds. Carlos had had hardly any training that week, because it had been blown out and/or raining. So, then there were Stephane and me, Les and Troy from florida (the condo soaring boys). I was first and had a good launch and tow (reverse! new to me), which I was relieved about. Due to the wind, we had easy tows, i.e. no driving around the lake and having to negotiate big curves.We could just tow straight across the lake and release at the end.
Tows were between 3000 and 4000 feet.

First run was a warm up for me with a few asymmetrics with speedbar, an asymmetric into a spiral, frontal, a full stall, some wingovers. I had had an SIV in February and had already done a zillion asymmetrics. After this full stall, I felt comfortable with being able to recover from one. I had told Dave, I wanted to do it by myself and him just helping out if something goes wrong. Nothing went wrong. Phew.

Everybody else was new to SIV and did their runs mostly doing asymmetrics with increasing degrees of severity and frontals. One of the condo boys was just there to finish up his clinic, so he did a fulll stall on his second run, which looked extremely ugly and had some turns in it. It ate up altitude like nothing, gave all of us heart attacks, but with Dave's coaching it eventually came out and he still had at least 1000 feet of altitude, although Dave was saying he wouldn't have let it go on much longer and was getting ready to tell him to throw his reserve. Condo boy was, understandably, pretty shook up.

We had to go and retrieve the line from the boat before each launch. The water was so shallow, that the boat would (and did) get stuck in the bottom. So, somebody had to wade out to the boat. We took turns. When it was my turn they told me it was no big deal, water only went to mid thigh. Wearing my fast drying pants, i figured no need to change into bathing suit. Well, what I hadn't take into account was that everybody else who had done previous line retrieval is a heck of a lot taller than I am. I was up to my waist by the time I reached the boat. My other clothing items were not the fast drying kind... Later on, Dave arranged for a jetski to do line retrieval.

On my 2nd tow I was going to try to negative spin the glider. I tried a few times unsuccessfully (doing full stalls instead - no big deal anymore :-) and then I hit a helicopter spin. after that practiced more spirals and wingovers. Dave also told me to try a b-line stall just for kicks. We had decided that the reason I couldn't do b-line stalls (I had tried during my previous SIV) was because I am too light on my wing. Well.... it must be all in the technique. Using Dave's technique, I managed it! So, I was excited. During my debriefing, Dave almost jumped out of his backbrace, he was so excited. But not about the B-line stall: First student who had ever thrown a helicopter spin and such a nice one to boot! I didn't share his enthusiasm, figuring I couldn't take credit for something done accidentally. Well, now that I had done one accidentally, my new goal was to throw it on purpose.

But first one pilot gave us some excitement. I thought the pilot was done with maneuvers and started getting ready for my flight, when I heard a collective gasp. I turned around and saw the biggest splash I've ever seen. Apparently the pilot had decided to throw one last asymmetric, went into a spiral and spiraled right into the lake. The boat was not close (takes a while to come back from the other end of the lake), Dave called for the jetski to help. No response. I sprinted to the jetski to ask Dianne to help out. Jetski was stuck in the mud. Trying to push it out of the mud, I got soaking wet (again). Some additional help from Carlos and Dianne and I were off to help. By then the boat had made it to him and he was fine. Nicely ensconced between backrest and life vest, head over water. was smiling at us and waving his arms to show he was okay. Turns out, that his leg was pretty darn sore, but otherwise okay.

My next flight was really frustrating. My spin attempts came to naught, just a bunch of full stalls. Getting some good practice at getting out of those! My wingover timing had actually gotten worse (if possible) and my spirals weren't terribly deep. One of the condo boys was doing beautiful big spirals (first one not on purpose, causing him a bit of anxiety, heh :-) ) I was flying between two thunderstorm cells, hit some lift, but one of the cells was coming darn close. I could see the gust front advancing over the lake. I rushed to the LZ before the gust front hit. Hitting my spot next to the tent was no problem. Just hovered down at close to trim! Collapsed the glider just in time. It wasn't a big gust front, but it had become abundantly clear to me, that I cannot handle winds as big as other people can, because of my wing loading. No wonder i often float to the top of the stack!

I would have had time to have another flight that day, if some idiot had not run over our tow line with his boat. He was totally oblivious despite everybody (us, the swimmers, other boaters) shouting and waving at him. He was just slowly tuckering along. Being the only one in position to cut him off, I sprinted along the shore, splashed through the swimming area (fully clothed...) He didn't notice me until I was about 10 feet away from his boat. He was going slow... when I got to him, I noticed this vacant look in his eyes and he was responding R E A L L Y S L O W.... He finally understood and turned off the engine and I untwisted the line from his prop, being almost shoulder deep in the water (no alligators :-). of course the line was cut and twisted a zillion times around itself and it took us hours to untwist and splice and spool it up again.

So this is how i ended up wet three times. I bet you thought it was for other reasons. Oh yee of little faith :-P

Mike had shaken out the cobwebs and got two runs in that day and with each beautiful SIV runs had gotten more confident on his wing. Carlos didn't get to fly at all that day... too strong for him. he took it in good stride though. Launches were reverses all day. That was a new one to me. Reverse launch for tow.

Dinner at the olive garden. urgh...

I was a bit bummed about not getting a 4th flight, but considering that we had started the day hoping for one flight each, I had to tell myself not to be so greedy.

Started early on Sunday. Because Carlos had to leave at 10:00, we had him do one flight after the other the following morning. I think he got 3 flights in. Dave got some grey hair over Carlos's first tow launch... heh :-) but his second tow was much better and Dave coached him through some asymmetrics (boy, did that get my attention, when he told Carlos to do an asymmetric!!!!) and frontals... sheeeeezzzzzz.... Carlos did well!

We had to leave at 2:00 pm, but I still managed to get 3 flights. One of the condo boys threw his first spin. Very nice. He had been practicing on the ground and executed it beautifully in the air, demonstrating the value of chair flying. We compared flying hours. He has 5 flying hours... he was pretty excited when he came down, but complained that nobody had told him that your body spins backwards. heh :-) minor detail :-)

I got towed to cloudbase on my first flight on sunday. :-)
Second tow I was a bit concerned about some building cumies. No worries, Dave says, you now have a few tools in your quiver. Hmmm... ookee... looking around on tow, I was wondering why the neighboring cloudbases were so far below me. Then i looked down.... umm.... I was in danger of losing cloud reference... folks on the ground said they kept losing sight of me, although i could still faintly see the boat and LZ... heh... probably a good time to release... I seemed to be in lift... hmm.... and lake was getting harder to see.... hmm.... let me try my brand spanking new move, aka the b-line stall. Boy, that thing is an elegant move. Feels so stable, is easy to do (well... it does take some strength to initiate it. Not sure I could hold it for more than a minute at the very most, even if my life depended on it) and sooooo effective. i think 1500 fpm down. i was out of the cloud in a jiffy, let go of the b's and went up into the cloud again. another b-line stall, holding it longer this time and i was safely out. Dave calls this applied-SIV :-)

My routine was always the same: try to throw a helicopter spin, then a good spiral, then practice wingovers.
on my first tow i threw a decent negative basic spin. My attempts at a helicopter spin just ended up in either full stalls or full stalls into spirals.
My wingover timing was getting only incrementally better, if at all.

My last run was preceded by a weak link break (at the end of Michael's last run, i think, although he got pretty high).
That was the best run. I finally did a helicopter spin, but it looked a bit messy. Dave didn't concur he was totally excited (again), agreed i did need to work on some things to make it look nicer, it was a bit wobbly, but he said it was unmistakenly a helicopter spin and a decent one at that. I then hit some lift and thermalled for a bit. and then threw a nice radical spiral. had to pop my ears in the middle of it. Saw the wing at least 90 degrees on the horizon. SWEET!!! what an addictive thing to do! my exits are very nice and controlled. The timing for my wingovers was getting better (still a far cry from acceptable) Did lots of thermalling, cloud street set up straight over our lake, nice fat easy thermals, but the drift was significant and not in the direction of the Fort Lauderdale airport, so i had to leave lift. Still... they had to wait with the next boat launch, because i was thermalling in the way. :-P i figured they had the rest of the day to launch, so I just hogged it. I did get out of the way eventually and they launched. I practised more wingovers and finally had to land.

I really could have used the third day or at least another half day (okay, so I'm greedy). Maybe I would have gotten a solid helicopter spin down and my wingover timing, too.

Michael had elected to do a gentle thermaling last flight and no more maneuvers. He decided not to do the full stall (or spin), but was very happy having done the asymmetrics and full frontals, b-line stalls, stabilo line, etc... we both wish we had done the SIV early in our PG career and that it really builds confidence in one's wing.

Anyway, Dave is trying to get a location in north carolina. He only charged us $300, because the first day was blown out. He guarantees a minimum of 5 tows. I got 6 :-)
I like working with him, because he tailors his approach to the student. He will ask you what you want to do on your run, give you pointers, and when in the air, will talk you through it. If you ask him not to talk you through it, he will just stand by and gets ready to talk you out of whatever mess you might have put yourself in. He'll also keep track of your location and will tell you which directions to face before you start a maneuver. Very useful when you do it in higher winds. I didn't have to worry about drifting too far downwind.

If there is anything to quibble with, it's that he didn't tell us to bring our radios (we ended up trading radios back and forth) and he didn't tell me to wear a bathing suit.

Had a blast. Want to do another one. This could get expensive...

-- ellis
Last edited by pink_albatross on Tue May 19, 2009 12:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
mcelrah
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:30 pm

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by mcelrah »

Ellis - Gonna start calling you Popeye... - Hugh
User avatar
pink_albatross
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:20 pm
Location: Ellis from Arlington

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by pink_albatross »

LOL (popeye)

btw, SIV stands for Simulated Incidence in flight/Vol
carweill
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:58 pm

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by carweill »

Got a new wing and harness and, although the first days I did not get to fly high I did a lot of kiting.
The big difference was that this time I had helpful and expert feedback for what I was doing and I found it very valuable.
Friday it was too windy for towing anyone. Saturday at the lake it was to windy and after an unsuccessful launch it was obvious to wait for lighter conditions.
Finally Sunday even when I had to leave before 10:00 am I was able to get 3 flights.
On the first one, I was able to do some turns but was uncomfortable because I could not seat in the harness. I tried the bicep push in the manual but it didn’t help because the risers were too far away. It was only until I was low enough that Dave noticed and couched me to do that. What a difference!
On the second one, now sitting in the harness, I did some wimpy asymmetric collapses, B-line stall and big ears. Felt very comfortable with the process, just forgot to pull outer and inner A-risers for the asymmetric collapse.
The third flight was mostly to try some turns and control and general familiarity with the new equipment. Thanks to Michael and Ellis for lending me the extra equipment, radio and hook knife.
I was very impressed with Dave, just a few days after significant surgery, was able to teach and train with just one arm, and sometimes in pain. Learned a lot.
Carlos
mcelrah
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:30 pm

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by mcelrah »

Carlos,

Glad you are in the saddle now! (I assume you got your P2?) Those maneuvers you did were beyond P2. - Hugh
carweill
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:58 pm

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by carweill »

No, no ratings yet.
But much more driven to get them now.

Carlos
mcelrah
Posts: 2323
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:30 pm

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by mcelrah »

Maybe find out where LE is going to be this weekend? She has said she can sign off people who have had overseas/out-of-town training but no ratings. Maybe get her on the phone with Prentice to discuss your observed skills? Even e-mail from him would help. Then she could see you fly a couple of times locally... - Hugh
Dan T
Posts: 1082
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:58 pm
Location: Northern VA

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by Dan T »

Great flights everybody, you are making me long to join you.

I recently returned from Erbil in the Kurdish North. Fantastic flying potential, beautiful country and very safe. Look up KRG.Org I think. I wonder if we could get a group to take a flying safari there. Never been flown to my knowledge. There is a Govt office in DC run by the Presiden'ts son.

dan t
almost out of baghdad
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pink_albatross
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Location: Ellis from Arlington

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by pink_albatross »

Intriguing!!!
-- ellis
Kim Browder
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Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by Kim Browder »

Great post Ellis.

My husband and I were down there the weekend before to take Dave's 1st SIV "post" accident. We are both P2's with about 1 1/2 years under our belt and had just moved up to DHV 1-2's. We wanted to get an SIV in before heading to the Alps to fly (just got back...what an awesome experience!!). Anyways, we really had a great time at Dave's SIV and learned soooooo much. We each got 4 flights in (we struggled with weather and larger number of participants) but both got all the minor stuff and stalls and spins. It was definitely a fast progression, but we were so comfortable with Dave's demeanor and presence. I had an asymmetric release from my second stall which ended of with a nasty cravat and locked in spiral...Dave just talked me out of it..."It's all good!!!" We would definitely do another with Dave...In fact, we will watch to see if anything comes up in NC.

Kim in S. Carolina
Dan T
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:58 pm
Location: Northern VA

Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by Dan T »

Wow Kim,

You must have gotten more lesson that you planned on while working that cravat! I would love to hear what he had you do to accomplish the recovery.

Also I sure hope you write and tell us about your experience in the Alps.

Dan T
Kim Browder
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Re: my SIV with Dave Prentice

Post by Kim Browder »

Thanks Dan...And yes, my cravat was more than I was bargaining for. Dave calmly told me I had a cravat. By this time, I had at least 1 full 360 in my spiral and the g's were picking up. Dave calmly told me I had a cravat on my left hand side as I simultaneously looked over and saw the matted up mess. He told me to reach up and grab my stabilo. The funny thing was I was going through the motions at exactly the same time. I forced myself to raise up and just as I was about to grab the line, it snapped out by itself and pitched me forward. I think I only had about 3 revolutions, but the g's were kickin. Then I just had to get the glider stabilized and stop my knees from shaking! The funny thing was, I was very calm while it was happening. My reactions were very methodical which kind of surprised me. It was afterwards, when I was flying just fine that my adrenaline was cracking! When I got down and de-briefed with Dave, we determined that I didn't need to take a wrap on my wing. I went back up on my next run to do a third stall and it was perfect! Butter smooth, clean and it felt good! The other thing Dave had me do on my last one (which I was not aware of before) was to cross my feet (at the ankles) and spread my knees out. He said that this helps center you, especially if you have a little extra room in your harness. I think that really helped me on my last stall...it made a huge difference! The other thing Dave told me was that he was not surprised my cravat popped out on it's own. He said that usually, the force of the spiral after about 2 full 360's will force it to come out. He also said he was 2 seconds away from telling me to throw my reserve had it not come out on it's own.

As for my recent trip to the Alps. Instead of posting a diatribe here, I have a blogspot with full details and great pictures. Have a look!
http://sky-4-me.blogspot.com/
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