Ad Hoc Pulpit Fly-In

[Matthew]

Hey All,

The joint membership of CHGPA and MHGA agreed to let MHGA have the third weekend in September for the High Rock Fly-In so that the HR Fly-In does not conflict with the Hyner Fly-In and other October Fly-Ins.

As most of you know, it's only be good for a comp at the Pulpit during the Pulpit Fly-In maybe 3 times in the last dozen years. So, the membership voted to schedule the Pulpit Fly-In to coincide with the next good weekend for flying the Pulpit as determnined by Bacil. It will not be during the ECC or the Ridgely Fly-In. Hopefully, it will be after the new launch pad is completed. So, keep an eye on the forum and be ready to volunteer for a task, such as picking up beer or food, bringing a grill, firewood, et cet. This will be a no-frills comp-- no raffle tickets, prizes or T-shirts. But we do have plaques and trophies. The decision will be made on a Wednesday.

Matthew

[RedBaron]

Excellent idea. We might want to ask people to bring their own food and just provide booze to keep organizational hassles at a minimum while focusing on flyable days. It has long been my conviction that Fly-Ins on non-flyable days are Walk-Outs and do nothing other than generate disappointment and bitterness.

[Danny Brotto]

Didn't always used to be that way. I've lots of videos and pix of wet fly-ins that were very well attended; HR, Hyner, 'burg, and even OR.

Some of those non-flyable events even turned flyable when the weather opened up for a surprise few hour window. Thing is we were all there to make to most of the moment. No one left bitter or disappointed and we had FUN!

Guess we’ve all gotten too busy now...

Danny Brotto

[brianvh]

I've always seen flying as no more than icing on the cake. People aren't likely to travel from out of the area for an ad-hoc fly-in because they need a little more planning, so it would be just the usual suspects who get together to fly the site anyway. But I think it's worth experimenting with.

[RedBaron]

I've always seen flying as no more than icing on the cake.

I couldn't disagree more. Cake without icing is tolerable, sometimes better. A Fly-In without flying is like an AA party. I'd rather have the Pulpit Fly-In at Ridgely than be stuck on a mountain imagining what it would be like to fly. That's torture at its finest.

[Richard Hays]

General disappointment and bitterness? WHAT ?? I seem to recall a whole lot of fun going on at the High Rock Fly-Ins Leigh and I have organized over the past umteen years. We've had excellent turn-outs, and have always either broken even or made money. Yes; its alot of work, but.....putting on a show of support for the oldest flying site in the USA and more importantly showing our support for Emma Jane and family. Personally I think the after hours party(s) have been a hoot. Campfire, Awesome food; camping, chasing frisbees around in the dark. Pilots on stilts, wine tasting, pumpkin tosses. C'mon mister negative! Where's your fun button ?

It ain't always about the flying. Sure...trying to organize a competition is tough. Disappointing when the conditions don't cooperate. Been there, done that. But you make the best of what you get and have fun doing it. Hanggliding, like other weather dependent sports are hit or miss at best. Its part of the process.

All its going to take is one really good weekend for a competition at the Pulpit to make you forget about some less than ideal conditions in the past. Keep positive.

Rich Hays

[RedBaron]

Funny, I seem to recall a whole lot of we're-not-putting-up-with-this-anymore sentiment after the last two Fly-Ins.
Look, I'm all for supporting Emma Jane and I will go even when it rains. I just happen to think there's a better way of doing it. Less hassle for the organizers, a stronger focus on the flying part and perhaps even more money for Emma Jane. I've got ideas and I am happy to discuss them if folks want to hear them.

Where's your fun button ?

Brian took it with him to NY. Where's your flight button?

[Dan T]

One of the most appealing parts of our fly ins is the opportunity to meet old friends and new ones who have come from a long way away to attend. This will almost certainly be lost if we switch to an impromptu format. I've done a lot of flying at the Pulpit and the other sites but one of my most vivid memories is of winning the day on a flight from the Pulpit to the range that runs through High Rock on a fly in Saturday only to have my ass kicked the following day by my good friend and competition nemesis Mark Gardner. Mark had travelled from Central PA with family in tow to attend. I doubt he could have made it on 3 days notice.

We can always have an impromptu fly in simply by posting our intentions 3 days in advance when the weather is sufficiently predictable. Bring the grill and a cooler of beer, skip the plaques and trophies, and post bragging rights afterwards on here.

dan t
home in mid june

[davidtheamazing1]

No harm in trying it this way for one year and seeing what the results are.

I also liked the idea of fixing the weekend but leaving the location flexible... ie HR/Pulpit/Woodstock/Bills/Daniels/The Sac/Ridgely depending on wind forecasts. That would help us plan/publicize it and would give people some notice if they want to come for a visit.

[dbodner]

I agree with most of what's posted here, even if the individual posts disagree. And I see nothing wrong with trying the ad-hoc format.

However, I think we suffer from a jadedness that doesn't allow us to enjoy a flight that doesn't last an hour or turn into a 1,000 foot gain. We don't drive 2 hours because the conditions don't look perfect.

The scheduled fly-ins cause us to drive those 2 hours. And then, because we're there, hopefully we then fly, even if the conditions aren't optimal for a soaring flight. Maybe by flying in marginal conditions with little or no ridge lift we work harder and become better pilots. And if not, there's no reason not to enjoy it anyway. You're flying. Enjoy your 5 minutes of glory. It's better than mowing the lawn.

[markc]

First, I'm glad that the plans for the High Rock Fly-In are not going "ad-hoc".
We've got a special relationship with Emma-Jane and her family, and I think
that continuing the tradition of a planned event for High Rock will be more
indicative of our support and appreciation than alternatives.

Second, I'll try anything a couple times: If an ad-hoc Pulpit Fly-In works out
I'll be happy (surprised?), and buy the organizers much good beer/wine.

Third: These days, I need more than a three-day advance warning of a special
weekend hang gliding event. If an ad-hoc call goes out on (say) a Wednesday...
Well, maybe I can be there, and maybe I can't. I CAN say for sure that a Wed
wouldn't be enough lead time for anything special (theoretically speaking, certain
go-boom entertainment after dark? *smile* ) that I might want to contribute.
Can't imagine a raffle working on that kind of short notice either. But hey, if
it works, I'll be the first say "Great idea, you rule!" .

Fourth: I'm not sure where this impression of "disappointment and bitterness",
or "we're-not-putting-up-with-this-anymore", as a result of poor or limited flying
opportunities during a scheduled Fly-In, is coming from. Like many, I've primarily
thought of the Pulpit Fly-In as a chance for fun, community, and an opportunity
to support a worthwhile charity. Is there REALLY a large number of disappointed
pilots who are so put off by how things have been going in recent years that a
significant change in format is the only solution? I certainly haven't heard lots of
complaints from people...

And I think we would hear those complaints, usually there's relatively little
feedback when things go well, and lots of negative feedback when they don't . If
someone can tell me "Yeah, I heard from 15 pilots after the 2008 Fly-In and they
all felt that the planned-event approach has got to go", then I might be a bit more
sold on the ad-hoc idea... Has anything like that been heard from area pilots?

Fifth: Volunteers make clubs like ours work. Kudos to all the new BOD members
who are taking on their officer roles! But the general membership also has a part
to play, especially for special events like Fly-Ins. Perhaps we simply haven't been
encouraging/cajoling/brow-beating enough people, so that the burden of a
scheduled Fly-In is spread out? I refuse to believe that we're all so jaded and/or
pressed for time that we can't pull off two events per year. Come on, it's FUN!
Even when the conditions don't cooperate. Enjoy it!

Cheers,

MarkC

[RedBaron]

as a result of poor or limited flying
opportunities during a scheduled Fly-In,

As a result of poor attendance due to limited flying opportunities. I remember reading a post from Matthew suggesting that there won't be any more Fly-Ins last Fall. You all have a short memory it seems.

Hey, if flying is just gravy or a sheep herded by fate or not all that important anyway, then I might want to suggest to discontinue the misleading practice of calling these events Fly-Ins. If you called it party at Emma Jane's there would be no disagreement. Makes sense, no?

[brianvh]

They are called Fly-Ins so we can be smug about having our own vocabulary. The problem comes when people don't realize it's really just a party with the possibility of flying.

The idea of a movable date for a weekend flying CONTEST is a good one though. I usually don't go XC because of the hassle involved, but a contest gives me an excuse. Since the Pulpit is our pre-eminent XC site, it's good to give it that focus.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of one movable CONTEST focussed fly-in, and one fixed PARTY focussed fly-in. They would have completely different characters (gypsy camp environment at the pulpit, serious party/raffle planning at High Rock), providing nice variety to the fly-in calendar. We can work on bulking up the party aspects at high rock, and bulking up the contest aspects at the pulpit. Sweet. I'd even have the clubs rotate management each year to avoid falling into ruts and burnout.

The loser is the rescue squad we usually donate to. I guess if we charge enough for the contest entry we have that part licked, huh?

[RedBaron]

A sweet compromise, Brian. I'm all for it.

[brianvh]

I would think the hardest thing would be finding plenty of drivers on short notice. If we had a list of friends who might be willing if they are free, and sweeten the pot by offering them $60-$100 to cover expenses paid out of the registration fees, then we might be able to scare up a few extra bodies.

[chgpa]

as a result of poor or limited flying
opportunities during a scheduled Fly-In,

As a result of poor attendance due to limited flying opportunities. I remember reading a post from Matthew suggesting that there won't be any more Fly-Ins last Fall. You all have a short memory it seems.

Hey, if flying is just gravy or a sheep herded by fate or not all that important anyway, then I might want to suggest to discontinue the misleading practice of calling these events Fly-Ins. If you called it party at Emma Jane's there would be no disagreement. Makes sense, no?

Sure, I remember Matthew's comments, and his apparent frustration at the
difficulty of making events like the Pulpit Fly-In work. Don't want to put
words into his mouth (and Matthew, please correct me if I'm wrong!), but
it seemed to me that some of the frustration stemmed from burn-out (too
many years helping with raffles, the cook-out, registration, etc) and the
difficulty in rounding up volunteers. I didn't reply on that thread because it
seemed like Matthew was venting a bit : perhaps I should have, to ask how
many others felt the same way.

Personally, I feel that there is a place for a regularly scheduled event,
with the possibility of re-locating flying activities if conditions aren't good,
and an equal possibility of not flying at all if a re-loc isn't feasible or is too
much trouble. I think it is unfortunate that the Pulpit Fly-In, which has
been held for at least 16 years, is the subject of the "ad hoc" experiment
without much discussion or debate. A dedicated forum topic and/or poll might
have been nice, for starters.

And Janni.... It's called a Fly-In because that's what it's called. Some years are
awful. Some years are ok. Some years are stellar. There is NOTHING misleading
about calling it what it is. Sheesh!

BTW: I am sincere in my hopes that the ad-hoc approach works out. Change is
good. It might be wildly successful. And/or, it might point the way to some sort
of hybrid solution.

MarkC

[Matthew]

Venting??? There's no venting in my post on this subject. It's very straightforward. Richard Hays of MHGA requested to take the date of the Pulpit Fly-In for the High Rock Fly-In. The joint MHGA/CHGPA Board of Directors agreed. That left no fixed date for the Pulpit Fly-In. We have a bunch of trophies that have accumlated over the years due to lack of flying at Pulpit Fly-Ins. Just a fact-- not venting. So we're trying something new so we can have an actual flying comp and give away the trophies.

Matthew

[brianvh]

I think the post under discussion is much older than this thread.

But the very fact that the joint boards apparently agreed so readily to a change suggests that change was needed. 16 years of doing the same thing gets a bit boring. I really wish I was more part of the area community because the thought of two differently themed fly-ins is very appealing.

And please switch it between the clubs to prevent burn out. According to an ancient historian I hang out with at Hyner, High Rock used to be considered CHGPA territory, Pulpit MHGA. Since I've been in there's been a reversed division of labor. I say mix it all around so it doesn't get tedious.

[mcelrah]

Oh, there WAS a good deal of discussion, first at a joint board meeting, then at the general meeting a couple of weeks ago, now here. And we are going to have more meetings so that there will be even more opportunity to discuss this and other important issues - if people will in fact come to the meetings... - Hugh

[RedBaron]

I just found this on the Icaro website

Flying site in Italy
in a spectacular landscape ...
with many friends and great facilities ...
we have fun in a lot of ways ...
but above all, we fly!

I guess I have to go to Italy to find pilots who think alike

[brianvh]

What prompted THAT?

If it's because people say a fly-in is not about the flying, well, flying is what everyone does as a matter of course. No reason to make it a special event. A flying contest, yes. A party of people who fly, yes. But to say a Fly-in has to be all about the flying is sort of like a baseball team saying "hey, let's have a special get-together where we just play baseball!".

It's called a 'game'.

For pilots the game is going out when it's good; a special event should include something else, otherwise why bother?

[mcelrah]

Check out the FIVL website (Federazione Italiana di Volo Libero) for a beautiful president's statement on "why we fly"... - Hugh

[Danny Brotto]

• The maximum flight height is 500 ft (about 150 m) over the top of the highest point in a 3 km (1,86 miles) radius. This limit is raised to 1.000 ft (about 300 m) during weekends and holidays, keeping away at least 5 km (3,1 miles) from the nearest airport and outside any controlled airspace. See Italian Aeronautical Chart.

Hmm, if I read this right a HG/PG pilot flying in Italy legally can't go higher than 500ft (1K on weekends) over the mountain peaks in a 1.9 mile radius? Is this correct? Italy has hosted comps but this rule must restrict XC? What am I missing?

Danny Brotto

[mcelrah]

It's Italy. Dodging taxes and disobeying the law is a patriotic duty! - Hugh

[Flying Lobster]

Alright you knuckleheads! I've been reading all about your little pissing contests and obviously YOU AIN"T GETTIN ANY!

So, I'm passing through town next week on the way to Maine, and I'm going to be doing the traditional Dukem and Belgian brewpub thing--so come on out and have some fun,

or SHUT THE F^%K UP! : )

marc

PS: ad hoc, dumb idea.