New Member of Tree Club
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New Member of Tree Club
I spent a brief sojourn in a tree about 150 yards short of the main LZ at the Pulpit on Saturday, 17 May. Fell out of the tree, sustaining moderate damage to glider and pilot.
Arrived at 10:00, and during set up, Janni, Hugh, Carlos, and Bacil with wife Judy arrived. Wind was straight in at about 10 – 14 MPH under a clear sky. It overdeveloped briefly, then cleared, and the wind shifted, producing a 30 degree west cross at about 9 – 12 MPH. We assessed conditions at launch, and the cross and wind strength appeared to be will within the range of safe flying, so everyone intended to fly, except Bacil, who had booked into Rocky Gap Golf Resort near Cumberland for a birthday celebration.
Launched around noon into a 10 MPH and 20 to 30 degree cross, and initially got about 150 over just to the left of launch. I crossed the wires to the right of launch, hoping to work possible lift on the SW facing slope, but turned back after failing to find lift.
Got about 100 over left of launch, lost it in turbulent air that now appeared to be turning more SW, turbulent, and stronger. Got slack wires, radically turned to the ridge, and after brief 50 ft climbs, quickly dumped. Worked my way down the ridge towards the main LZ, which, due to the brief climbs, appeared to be within glide range. About half way there started falling in more frequent holes, placing me closer to the trees, and attaining the LZ was now in doubt. At this point the primary and secondary were about equidistant, so continued towards the former. The headwind severely reduced the glide, and even brief climbs were no more.
The base tube made contact with a tree about 150 yards short of the LZ, and the glider nosed over and dipped a wing into a previously unseen large clearing (I hit a tree at the edge of the clearing). The left wing and control frame took the brunt of the approximate 30-foot fall, so although sore in the chest area, was able to radio Bacil that I was OK and describe the clearing.
Having seen the yo-yo pattern of the latter part of the flight, and its sudden termination in a tree, pilots at launch had no hesitation in reporting en mass for the extrication.
The glider broke an outer leading edge, a down tube, the base bar, and had a tear in the sail. I was able to walk, had not sustained head trauma, and suspected some broken ribs (pain when bending over was consistent with previous broken rib pain from a riding accident)
JoAnn picked me up and drove me to Washington County Medical Center in Hagerstown. A very attentive team quickly got me several X rays, a CAT scan, and after dye was injected, a check for internal bleeding. Eventually, I was told I had two broken ribs on the left, four on the right, a 15% pneumothorax (lung collapse) minor facial abrasions, and a nice shiner from the branches en route to terra firma.
Retained for observation and natural resolution of the pneumothorax, I was released today, 20 May. From previous experience, about 6 or 7 weeks in a recliner should resolve the broken ribs.
How could I have avoided the accident? Not launching would have been the safest option, but I had launched into stronger and greater crossing winds at this site. (Other pilots present would have launched had I not launched first.)
A stronger case can be made for the secondary LZ. In retrospect, had I turned towards that one, I would not have been gliding straight into a headwind, and might have reached it instead.
Lesson learned: assess not only the direction and distance to main or bail out LZs, but also the wind direction, which was the major reason I was unable to reach the primary on Saturday.
Additional lesson: the streamer on a ramp may not indicate the full extent of a cross wind. Any slot, such as Woodstock and to a lesser extent the Pulpit, may funnel a crosswind up a slot and make it appear to either come straight in or show it crossing less than it actually is further away from the slot.
I am indebted to Bacil, Carlos, Janni, Hugh and Bacil, who after using their collective medical expertise to assess that I was not about to expire, carefully packed away the injured glider, put it on the Subaru, and drove it back to launch.
I am also grateful to the medical staff at Washington Medical Center for their congenial and efficient professionalism. The Center was rated among the top 100 hospitals in the entire US – a highly deserved assessment in my opinion.
Arrived at 10:00, and during set up, Janni, Hugh, Carlos, and Bacil with wife Judy arrived. Wind was straight in at about 10 – 14 MPH under a clear sky. It overdeveloped briefly, then cleared, and the wind shifted, producing a 30 degree west cross at about 9 – 12 MPH. We assessed conditions at launch, and the cross and wind strength appeared to be will within the range of safe flying, so everyone intended to fly, except Bacil, who had booked into Rocky Gap Golf Resort near Cumberland for a birthday celebration.
Launched around noon into a 10 MPH and 20 to 30 degree cross, and initially got about 150 over just to the left of launch. I crossed the wires to the right of launch, hoping to work possible lift on the SW facing slope, but turned back after failing to find lift.
Got about 100 over left of launch, lost it in turbulent air that now appeared to be turning more SW, turbulent, and stronger. Got slack wires, radically turned to the ridge, and after brief 50 ft climbs, quickly dumped. Worked my way down the ridge towards the main LZ, which, due to the brief climbs, appeared to be within glide range. About half way there started falling in more frequent holes, placing me closer to the trees, and attaining the LZ was now in doubt. At this point the primary and secondary were about equidistant, so continued towards the former. The headwind severely reduced the glide, and even brief climbs were no more.
The base tube made contact with a tree about 150 yards short of the LZ, and the glider nosed over and dipped a wing into a previously unseen large clearing (I hit a tree at the edge of the clearing). The left wing and control frame took the brunt of the approximate 30-foot fall, so although sore in the chest area, was able to radio Bacil that I was OK and describe the clearing.
Having seen the yo-yo pattern of the latter part of the flight, and its sudden termination in a tree, pilots at launch had no hesitation in reporting en mass for the extrication.
The glider broke an outer leading edge, a down tube, the base bar, and had a tear in the sail. I was able to walk, had not sustained head trauma, and suspected some broken ribs (pain when bending over was consistent with previous broken rib pain from a riding accident)
JoAnn picked me up and drove me to Washington County Medical Center in Hagerstown. A very attentive team quickly got me several X rays, a CAT scan, and after dye was injected, a check for internal bleeding. Eventually, I was told I had two broken ribs on the left, four on the right, a 15% pneumothorax (lung collapse) minor facial abrasions, and a nice shiner from the branches en route to terra firma.
Retained for observation and natural resolution of the pneumothorax, I was released today, 20 May. From previous experience, about 6 or 7 weeks in a recliner should resolve the broken ribs.
How could I have avoided the accident? Not launching would have been the safest option, but I had launched into stronger and greater crossing winds at this site. (Other pilots present would have launched had I not launched first.)
A stronger case can be made for the secondary LZ. In retrospect, had I turned towards that one, I would not have been gliding straight into a headwind, and might have reached it instead.
Lesson learned: assess not only the direction and distance to main or bail out LZs, but also the wind direction, which was the major reason I was unable to reach the primary on Saturday.
Additional lesson: the streamer on a ramp may not indicate the full extent of a cross wind. Any slot, such as Woodstock and to a lesser extent the Pulpit, may funnel a crosswind up a slot and make it appear to either come straight in or show it crossing less than it actually is further away from the slot.
I am indebted to Bacil, Carlos, Janni, Hugh and Bacil, who after using their collective medical expertise to assess that I was not about to expire, carefully packed away the injured glider, put it on the Subaru, and drove it back to launch.
I am also grateful to the medical staff at Washington Medical Center for their congenial and efficient professionalism. The Center was rated among the top 100 hospitals in the entire US – a highly deserved assessment in my opinion.
John Dullahan
Re: New Member of Tree Club
John,
Thanks for your candid and detailed report. Man, I'm really sorry about the injuries (and glider damage), but relieved they are not worse.
I've spent a few days in the WashCo hospital and agree that they are top knotch.
I sure hope you heal quickly.
Best regards,
Thanks for your candid and detailed report. Man, I'm really sorry about the injuries (and glider damage), but relieved they are not worse.
I've spent a few days in the WashCo hospital and agree that they are top knotch.
I sure hope you heal quickly.
Best regards,
'Spark
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
As a member of the tree club, myself, I'm glad the results of your entry into the club weren't more severe. I'm not suggesting this as gospel, but here are my personal observations about being in that predicament.
Generally, on days when there's a significant crosswind in the direction of the LZ, you're better off heading in that direction from the outset with the hope of finding lift along the way. It's important to recognize when a bad situation is developing and have an alternate plan when needed. Once it becomes clear that a tree-landing is in the cards, try to pick a tree that has a large crown, is surrounded by other trees of similar height, and is not at the edge of a clearing or opening in the canopy (although I wouldn't want to be too far from civilization, either). After choosing a suitable tree, treat it like a spot-landing and flare to land in the middle of the crown. Keep your feet and knees together and as you settle into the tree-top and start grabbing for branches just in case your glider doesn't stick. Assuming you're then in a stable position, you're probably better off waiting for help to arrive as more than one pilot has died falling out of tree after a successful tree-landing. If needed, you can use your parachute to tie yourself off. I used to fly with a tree-extraction kit that included rope and 'biners. If you do so, make sure it can be reached with either hand. Also, don't remove your helmet until you're safely on the ground.
JR
Generally, on days when there's a significant crosswind in the direction of the LZ, you're better off heading in that direction from the outset with the hope of finding lift along the way. It's important to recognize when a bad situation is developing and have an alternate plan when needed. Once it becomes clear that a tree-landing is in the cards, try to pick a tree that has a large crown, is surrounded by other trees of similar height, and is not at the edge of a clearing or opening in the canopy (although I wouldn't want to be too far from civilization, either). After choosing a suitable tree, treat it like a spot-landing and flare to land in the middle of the crown. Keep your feet and knees together and as you settle into the tree-top and start grabbing for branches just in case your glider doesn't stick. Assuming you're then in a stable position, you're probably better off waiting for help to arrive as more than one pilot has died falling out of tree after a successful tree-landing. If needed, you can use your parachute to tie yourself off. I used to fly with a tree-extraction kit that included rope and 'biners. If you do so, make sure it can be reached with either hand. Also, don't remove your helmet until you're safely on the ground.
JR
Re: New Member of Tree Club
Wow. I'm glad that you are okay-- relatively speaking.
But wasn't the forecast West becomeing SW 15-20 with gusts to 30 in the afternoon?
Matthew
But wasn't the forecast West becomeing SW 15-20 with gusts to 30 in the afternoon?
Matthew
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
Glad you're ok. Bet you gave some squirrels a good scare!
Re: New Member of Tree Club
Ouch!
As far as choosing a single good tree, I know from my experience that's not always an option. A tree landing often is the result of strong turbulent wind. A large patch of trees may be all the control you have. Sorry that hole snuck up on you, John. Trees are ever so much softer than the ground.
For the further benefit of newbies: as JR says, for the love of Mike don't remove any protective gear or try to climb down. I didn't believe it either. Let's just say pride really does go before a 30 foot fall.
We love you, John. Heal.
As far as choosing a single good tree, I know from my experience that's not always an option. A tree landing often is the result of strong turbulent wind. A large patch of trees may be all the control you have. Sorry that hole snuck up on you, John. Trees are ever so much softer than the ground.
For the further benefit of newbies: as JR says, for the love of Mike don't remove any protective gear or try to climb down. I didn't believe it either. Let's just say pride really does go before a 30 foot fall.
We love you, John. Heal.
Brian Vant-Hull
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
We love you, John. Heal quickly.
Lauren and Paul
Lauren and Paul
Re: New Member of Tree Club
I don't see what this has to do with John's accident. Matthew, when you say that, what are you really trying to say?But wasn't the forecast West becomeing SW 15-20 with gusts to 30 in the afternoon?
#1 Rogue Pilot
Re: New Member of Tree Club
Hey John, speedy fast healing. I am just up the road in Waldorf (route 228) if you need anything.
Gene
Gene
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
I would speculate that Matthew was questioning the decision to fly at the Pulpit in the first place given that particular forecast and that might well have (and probably did) have something to do with John's accident. As they say, discretion is the better part of valor. Of course, they also say that pain is temporary, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars, but I would personally choose the former over the latter. In fact, I rode my bike that day because here in Cumberland, we had the same forecast and it was cranking out of the southwest by noon with lots of overdevelopment.RedBaron wrote:I don't see what this has to do with John's accident. Matthew, when you say that, what are you really trying to say?But wasn't the forecast West becomeing SW 15-20 with gusts to 30 in the afternoon?
JR
Re: New Member of Tree Club
I don't see what this has to do with John's accident. Matthew, when you say that, what are you really trying to say?...
*******
I'm asking why anyone would go to the Pulpit given the forecast. You go to the Pulpit when the forecast is West or NW 5-10, sometimes 10-15 in the summer or if it's a diminishing forecast. The Pulpit is easily blown out. We all know that. You don't go to the Pulpit when there is a strong forecast. You don't go to the Pulpit when the forecast is SW. So why were a bunch of pilots at the Pulpit when the forecast was for strong SW winds. And wasn't there a forecast for 50 percent chance of thunderstorms. Bacil once admonished a bunch of us who flew at the Pulpit when there was a 30 percent chance of thunderstorms. I believe 50 percent is worse than 30 percent. So again I ask, why did you all go to the Pulpit given the forecast?
And if the answer is-- we were trying to get into the air before it became too strong and too cross to fly and beat the thunderstorms, then we have some serious safety issues to address.
And as someone who cares, I think we need to talk about safe flying conditions and knowing when not to fly.
Matthew
*******
I'm asking why anyone would go to the Pulpit given the forecast. You go to the Pulpit when the forecast is West or NW 5-10, sometimes 10-15 in the summer or if it's a diminishing forecast. The Pulpit is easily blown out. We all know that. You don't go to the Pulpit when there is a strong forecast. You don't go to the Pulpit when the forecast is SW. So why were a bunch of pilots at the Pulpit when the forecast was for strong SW winds. And wasn't there a forecast for 50 percent chance of thunderstorms. Bacil once admonished a bunch of us who flew at the Pulpit when there was a 30 percent chance of thunderstorms. I believe 50 percent is worse than 30 percent. So again I ask, why did you all go to the Pulpit given the forecast?
And if the answer is-- we were trying to get into the air before it became too strong and too cross to fly and beat the thunderstorms, then we have some serious safety issues to address.
And as someone who cares, I think we need to talk about safe flying conditions and knowing when not to fly.
Matthew
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
Kinda like the "anti-Woodstock effect?"Matthew wrote:I don't see what this has to do with John's accident. Matthew, when you say that, what are you really trying to say?...
*******
I'm asking why anyone would go to the Pulpit given the forecast. ...
Matthew
Seriously, John, I wish you a speedy recovery my man--"you just have to work it."
marc
Great Googly-moo!
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
Hi John,
I am relieved to hear your injuries are not more serious and glad your spirits are up as always. Look forward to seeing you soon and healthy (both of us). Heal well.
John
I am relieved to hear your injuries are not more serious and glad your spirits are up as always. Look forward to seeing you soon and healthy (both of us). Heal well.
John
Re: New Member of Tree Club
I was checking the weather for up in NY not down there, but I have to believe there were conflicting forecasts depending on which site you looked at. This often happens when the winds aloft will be different from the surface. Actually, they always are, the question is how much convective mixing will go on, which is hard to predict and different sites will use different models. Surface forecasts are treacherous.
winds aloft forecasts should be pretty much in agreement on the morning of a flying day. If those look bad, it could be a bad day even if some surface forecasts look good. I'm one of the worst offenders when it comes to believing the forecast just because it says what I want.
winds aloft forecasts should be pretty much in agreement on the morning of a flying day. If those look bad, it could be a bad day even if some surface forecasts look good. I'm one of the worst offenders when it comes to believing the forecast just because it says what I want.
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: New Member of Tree Club
I saw WSW all day when I checked in the morning, although I have to admit that I didn’t spend a great deal of time gauging every little deviation from what I believed to be good enough. Anyway, I suggest we stick to the facts rather than jump to conclusions based on forecasts that were deemed too unsafe to give the Pulpit a go by some individuals. Sure, crap day, crap conditions, all of that. But sometimes you just don’t know unless you drive there and yell clear. Up on launch we were all making OTB arrangements, it looked that good. Nobody in our small contingent would have taken issues with any of us volunteering to be the wind dummy and nobody took issues with us driving to the Pulpit. Please read the report. John did not get thrown into the trees by a 30 mph T-storm gust.
Yeah, it’s always easy to stay home, hug the couch and swing the safety issue bat when things go wrong, but how is this helpful? I suggest the next time you find conditions unsafe share your wisdom as loud as you can BEFORE pilots head out. Or is passing hindsight know-it-all judgment from your armchair or bicycle all you’ve got to offer?
Yeah, it’s always easy to stay home, hug the couch and swing the safety issue bat when things go wrong, but how is this helpful? I suggest the next time you find conditions unsafe share your wisdom as loud as you can BEFORE pilots head out. Or is passing hindsight know-it-all judgment from your armchair or bicycle all you’ve got to offer?
#1 Rogue Pilot
Re: New Member of Tree Club
OK. Next time I hear of pilots going out when I think conditions will be unsafe, I'll make a point to post ahead of time if I'm in town. However, the forecast looked so bad to me on Satudary morning that I really didn't think anyone would even consider going to the Pulpit on Saturday.
That's why I was so surprised.
I'm a great believer in "ya don't know unless ya go." However, that only works for marginal forecasts... not forecasts of gloom and doom. You all know that I go out on marginal forecasts and cheer the troops to go out on marginal forecasts.
We went up to the Catskills near Ellenville for four days. The forecast up there was so bad, however, we didn't even bring our gliders. It's gotta be a pretty horrible forecast for me not bring my glider when there's a chance of flying at least one of the four days. As it turned out, it was crappy weather for flying up there and I was glad we didn't bring our gliders.
Anyway, I wish John a speedy recovery and I hope we can have a reasonable discussion on safe flying forecasts and knowing when not to fly based upon various forecasts and not just current conditions on launch.
Here are a few things that put me off from flying--
Building forecasts
Pre-frontal conditions
Gust diferential greater the 10mph
T-storm forecast greater than 30 percent
Any T-storm forecast when there's cloud cover because there can be hidden embedded T-storms
Matthew
That's why I was so surprised.
I'm a great believer in "ya don't know unless ya go." However, that only works for marginal forecasts... not forecasts of gloom and doom. You all know that I go out on marginal forecasts and cheer the troops to go out on marginal forecasts.
We went up to the Catskills near Ellenville for four days. The forecast up there was so bad, however, we didn't even bring our gliders. It's gotta be a pretty horrible forecast for me not bring my glider when there's a chance of flying at least one of the four days. As it turned out, it was crappy weather for flying up there and I was glad we didn't bring our gliders.
Anyway, I wish John a speedy recovery and I hope we can have a reasonable discussion on safe flying forecasts and knowing when not to fly based upon various forecasts and not just current conditions on launch.
Here are a few things that put me off from flying--
Building forecasts
Pre-frontal conditions
Gust diferential greater the 10mph
T-storm forecast greater than 30 percent
Any T-storm forecast when there's cloud cover because there can be hidden embedded T-storms
Matthew
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
Actually Red Baron Janni, I made the decision that it wasn't a good day to go flying early that morning based upon a very questionable forecast and what I was seeing out my window. I've always said, "You don't know if you don't go" and I still promote that idea, but you also need consider the forecast models when making the risk vs. reward calculations for the day. Everyone gets to choose their comfort level and the conditions they're willing to fly in, but I've tried to learn from years of making questionable decisions to err on the side of caution. I still need a reminder on occasion, but less frequently than in the past.RedBaron wrote:I saw WSW all day when I checked in the morning, although I have to admit that I didn’t spend a great deal of time gauging every little deviation from what I believed to be good enough. Anyway, I suggest we stick to the facts rather than jump to conclusions based on forecasts that were deemed too unsafe to give the Pulpit a go by some individuals. Sure, crap day, crap conditions, all of that. But sometimes you just don’t know unless you drive there and yell clear. Up on launch we were all making OTB arrangements, it looked that good. Nobody in our small contingent would have taken issues with any of us volunteering to be the wind dummy and nobody took issues with us driving to the Pulpit. Please read the report. John did not get thrown into the trees by a 30 mph T-storm gust.
Yeah, it’s always easy to stay home, hug the couch and swing the safety issue bat when things go wrong, but how is this helpful? I suggest the next time you find conditions unsafe share your wisdom as loud as you can BEFORE pilots head out. Or is passing hindsight know-it-all judgment from your armchair or bicycle all you’ve got to offer?
Also, addressing and analyzing these issues and the decisions that were made may be useful to other pilots who might consider flying when there's a similar forecast. That's one reason we file accident reports - to help others try to avoid the same mistakes and since most of us lack prescience, these things can only be discussed and judged with the benefit of hindsight. I'm guessing based upon your past comments that you haven't been in the sport very long, but, if you survive long enough, you may come to realize that, ultimately, the object of the game is to have fun and most importantly, to play again.
JR
Re: New Member of Tree Club
For what it's worth, here's a portion of my post from Thursday 5/15 - "The Pulpit right now looks doable in the AM. The downside is the PM. Possible showers and wind rampup." Not placing blame anywhere or absolving myself of guilt either. Granted not the ideal forecast. It is safer to be on the downslope of conditions rather than the upslope. Timing is everything. A healthy safety margin is a desired entity. So the safest flying tact on Saturday, if one was determined to fly, would have been to get to the Pulpit at 7AM, take off at 8AM, and land before the winds switched from W to SW. Or don't fly or don't go.
Bacil
Bacil
Re: New Member of Tree Club
The usefulness of accident reports is not being discussed here.That's one reason we file accident reports - to help others try to avoid the same mistakes and since most of us lack prescience, these things can only be discussed and judged with the benefit of hindsight.
The fact that it was doing a lot of SW on the ridge did not cause tree impact. Flying downwind towards the bowl and losing massive altitude there however did. John violated but one rule in my opinion, to stay within reach of a safe LZ.I made the decision that it wasn't a good day to go flying early that morning based upon a very questionable forecast and what I was seeing out my window.
The sole intent of your last comment is to stigmatize me as an inexperienced high-risk pilot. This thread is not about me, so stop creating diversions that dissipate the benefits of John's report and make the sincerity of your comments with regards to the value of accident write-ups questionable at best.I'm guessing based upon your past comments that you haven't been in the sport very long, but, if you survive long enough, you may come to realize that, ultimately, the object of the game is to have fun and most importantly, to play again.
#1 Rogue Pilot
Re: New Member of Tree Club
Janni - Not to be the bad guy, but I don't think JR was classifying you as the inexperienced high-risk pilot. He WAS classifying you as the inexperienced pilot, which whether you like it or not, is a fact. Within the group of pilots in CHGPA, you are one of the most recent pilots and one of the most inexperienced with the micrometeorology of our local flying sights. I know its easy to take things personal, but sometimes you have to understand that the pilots on this listserve HAVE been around longer than yourself and are trying to impart some knowledge from insights they've gained. Instead of arguing with them, sometimes its better to understand what they are "TRYING" to say. From 25 years of flight experience, I can tell you flat out that Nature is a Mother and you really have to be ahead of the game in this arena of flight. Since we are unpowered, and therefore don't have the opportunity to "Wave off for a Go-Around", you really need to be much more cognitive of the realm of the possible. If the forecast says its going to ramp up and have T-Storms, the last place you want to be is in the air going "Damn ... they were right..." Sometimes its better to err on the side of caution and only be saying, "Damn ... f'ing weatherman screwed me again." I'd rather be alive and pissed then injured and wrong.
Chris
Chris
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
I apologize, Janni. I wasn't trying to stigmatize you as anything, but after I re-read my post, I realized I was sounding like my dad telling me about how he had to walk up hill to school everyday (in each direction). I understand you because I was you at the same stage in my flying career. We're all hungry to fly. Hopefully, we won't ever lose that hunger, but knowing when to diet will keep you around for more meals.RedBaron wrote:The sole intent of your last comment is to stigmatize me as an inexperienced high-risk pilot. This thread is not about me, so stop creating diversions that dissipate the benefits of John's report and make the sincerity of your comments with regards to the value of accident write-ups questionable at best.
JR
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
John,
Thanks for the report and it sounds like you can curse and thank your lucky stars at the same time. I hope you get better soon.
As a new pilot I would say this report (and even some of the discussion) is very useful. In my non-infinite wisdom, I've concluded that Pulpit is the scariest of our local H2+ flying sites. I've been there ready to fly, maybe four times, but only flown off once. The primary is a long glide, the secondary is small and sloping, launch is gusty/strong on most good days and crossing on many of the others.
That being said, I'm with Janni on driving 2+ hours each way for the promise of less-than-good flying conditions. ("It sucks!") Although given the forecast we had last weekend, I'm with Matthew and Bacil... I didn't even look at my glider bag.
Thanks for the report and it sounds like you can curse and thank your lucky stars at the same time. I hope you get better soon.
As a new pilot I would say this report (and even some of the discussion) is very useful. In my non-infinite wisdom, I've concluded that Pulpit is the scariest of our local H2+ flying sites. I've been there ready to fly, maybe four times, but only flown off once. The primary is a long glide, the secondary is small and sloping, launch is gusty/strong on most good days and crossing on many of the others.
That being said, I'm with Janni on driving 2+ hours each way for the promise of less-than-good flying conditions. ("It sucks!") Although given the forecast we had last weekend, I'm with Matthew and Bacil... I didn't even look at my glider bag.
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Re: New Member of Tree Club
Holy smokes,what a read, glad you're not seriously injured John,hopefully you'll be healed and flying soon.Wind direction in the valley can be a lot different than at altitude,frequently at my house it's coming straight up the valley when it's straight in on the ramp,that translates to a 90 degree cross. RichB
Re: New Member of Tree Club
Please remember that when you read a text description about a flight incident, from the pilot
in question or from others who were present, it will never substitute for a face-to-face
discussion (or possibly a more detailed report that might be made at a later date).
Has anything been said about what the cloud track was? What the wind direction and velocity
were just above the ridge? What went through the pilot's mind when weighing the secondary
vs the primary? What the duration and direction of the cycles at launch were? How far above/below
the ridge the pilot was at the halfway point to the primary LZ? What glider was being flown, and
what the VG setting was? How current the pilot was (for the season, for the site, for the conditions)?
No, no, no, no, no, no, and no.
Before one decides to mount one's high horse, I strongly encourage a little bit of Q & A . Here's
an example for the imagination-challenged:
not to be optimal. Sometimes we might know/suspect that this is the case before ever calling
"clear". Other times, we might be completely surprised.
But by god, if I don't start to see some actual CONVERSATION prior to the mounting of the horses
on high, I'm gonna.... I swear I'll... **uurrkh!** **gaaarhh**. I''ll pound the Enter key off my keyboard,
that's what I'll do!!
MarkC
PS: Glad you are healing John! Fly safe and be careful out/up there!
in question or from others who were present, it will never substitute for a face-to-face
discussion (or possibly a more detailed report that might be made at a later date).
Has anything been said about what the cloud track was? What the wind direction and velocity
were just above the ridge? What went through the pilot's mind when weighing the secondary
vs the primary? What the duration and direction of the cycles at launch were? How far above/below
the ridge the pilot was at the halfway point to the primary LZ? What glider was being flown, and
what the VG setting was? How current the pilot was (for the season, for the site, for the conditions)?
No, no, no, no, no, no, and no.
Before one decides to mount one's high horse, I strongly encourage a little bit of Q & A . Here's
an example for the imagination-challenged:
We've ALL pushed things from time to time. We've ALL flown in conditions that later provedSo, John, it seemed like a pretty strong SW 'cast that day, what exactly did you see on
launch that made you think the fun-factor-o-meter would be in the black?
not to be optimal. Sometimes we might know/suspect that this is the case before ever calling
"clear". Other times, we might be completely surprised.
But by god, if I don't start to see some actual CONVERSATION prior to the mounting of the horses
on high, I'm gonna.... I swear I'll... **uurrkh!** **gaaarhh**. I''ll pound the Enter key off my keyboard,
that's what I'll do!!
MarkC
PS: Glad you are healing John! Fly safe and be careful out/up there!