Season's Greeting to one and all! May you have a joyous holiday season and a Happy New Year!
But seriously, pay your CHGPA membership 2008 dues!
There are over 240 users on the forum and less than 80 paid members of the club. Jeesh!
And some of the most vocal people on the forum are not and have not been members of the club for years and years. So if you wish to gripe about something, then how about pay for griping and bothering everyone else. And for those pilots who fly our sites and keep forgetting to pay their dues, pay your dues for 2007 too.
It's only 40 bucks per year. It's not that hard to put a check in the mail!!!!!
Matthew
Season's Greeting and Pay Your Dues
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
sort of gave myself an idea (being serious here) - just came back from the club website and, indeed, didn't see anything on lifetime memberships. in any event, i'll go ahead and post this (it keeps the conversation going, if nothing else)
a) for me personally, the ole dropping the check in the mail thing is actually a stumbling point. i generally need good, strong motivation (i.e. something like a threat of legal action or a 'Matthews Hammer' - (that actually has a nice ring to it. . . )).
b) in my individual case, i get most all my jollies from the forum - and there is no *Requirement* to pay for that benefit, even though it *DOES* require the time, effort and resources of dedicated indivuals. therefore if a 'Matthews Hammer' isn't Immediately effective in moving me off the line (or out of the blocks or off the ramp) - well then, the club has no recourse, gains no monies, etc. and there will be those who readily/easily rationalize their 'getting something for nothing'.
c) again using my case as an example, i have no other impact on resources of the club/the sport/the flyers, so it's mainly an ethical sort of thingy (and that's sort of 'plastic' and amorphous).
------------------------------------
so:
the question becomes something like. . . how does one 'tie all this up' and make it easy and beneficial for all parties?
thoughts:
1) dudes and dudettes who stop flying don't generally get it completely out of their blood immediately, 'maintain an emotional/identity connection even if no one sees them around (no?). that would be a time when they'd be most likely to want to pony up their bucks for a lifetime nonflying membership. otherwise they might start out paying for an annual nonflying membership, eventually 'wander off', and dropping an annual check in the mail requires an annual reevaluation. i.e. lost revenue.
2) so. . . since a nonflying member has no financial impact on resources, price a lifetime nonflying membership such that it would be easy for a person (for example, one transitioning from flying to nonflying) to sort of shrug their shoulders and think "yeah, sure. i can pay that and stay connected to the sport."
results:
a) resolve guilt/ethical issues
b) overcome 'drop it in the mail'/procrastination issues
c) make money for the club
d) narrow down targets for future 'Matthews Hammer' blows
[ it's amazing isn't it? (but typical for me
) i chose to do this post rather than just 'go drop a check in the mail 
(in case anyone thought that i'd missed that obvious point)
make me an offer! 
a) for me personally, the ole dropping the check in the mail thing is actually a stumbling point. i generally need good, strong motivation (i.e. something like a threat of legal action or a 'Matthews Hammer' - (that actually has a nice ring to it. . . )).
b) in my individual case, i get most all my jollies from the forum - and there is no *Requirement* to pay for that benefit, even though it *DOES* require the time, effort and resources of dedicated indivuals. therefore if a 'Matthews Hammer' isn't Immediately effective in moving me off the line (or out of the blocks or off the ramp) - well then, the club has no recourse, gains no monies, etc. and there will be those who readily/easily rationalize their 'getting something for nothing'.
c) again using my case as an example, i have no other impact on resources of the club/the sport/the flyers, so it's mainly an ethical sort of thingy (and that's sort of 'plastic' and amorphous).
------------------------------------
so:
the question becomes something like. . . how does one 'tie all this up' and make it easy and beneficial for all parties?
thoughts:
1) dudes and dudettes who stop flying don't generally get it completely out of their blood immediately, 'maintain an emotional/identity connection even if no one sees them around (no?). that would be a time when they'd be most likely to want to pony up their bucks for a lifetime nonflying membership. otherwise they might start out paying for an annual nonflying membership, eventually 'wander off', and dropping an annual check in the mail requires an annual reevaluation. i.e. lost revenue.
2) so. . . since a nonflying member has no financial impact on resources, price a lifetime nonflying membership such that it would be easy for a person (for example, one transitioning from flying to nonflying) to sort of shrug their shoulders and think "yeah, sure. i can pay that and stay connected to the sport."
results:
a) resolve guilt/ethical issues
b) overcome 'drop it in the mail'/procrastination issues
c) make money for the club
d) narrow down targets for future 'Matthews Hammer' blows
[ it's amazing isn't it? (but typical for me
) i chose to do this post rather than just 'go drop a check in the mail (in case anyone thought that i'd missed that obvious point) make me an offer! garyDevan
Dues and what to "due" with them
Seems like Gary has a good idea worth considering. If a person has retired from the sport or for some other reason no longer flies our sites, it seems that a reduced rate lifetime nonflying membership might be a good arrangement for all concerned.
One thing that might provide some additional motivation to pay up would be to get an indication of what has been and is being done with the money. I think the annual fly-in pays for itself, so other than that I'm hard pressed to identify a recent event that put our bankroll to work. The last substantial one that I know of was putting the shelter in at the Carbaughs and assisting Emma Jane some. Both very worthy endeavors. Perhaps the participants in this forum could put forth some suggestions that could contribute to protecting, maintaining or improving our sites.
Years before I became involved in the sport, a dedicated group of people unknown to me put forth a great deal of blood, sweat and money to acquire our privately owned site at the Pulpit. It would sure be nice if we could produce the same level of dedication and effort to obtain the same assurance that a landing area will always be there for us that we have for our launch. It would be tragic to one day lose any of our sites because we couldn't protect the tail end of the flight, particularly one in which we have so much invested.
Anyone interested?
Dan T
One thing that might provide some additional motivation to pay up would be to get an indication of what has been and is being done with the money. I think the annual fly-in pays for itself, so other than that I'm hard pressed to identify a recent event that put our bankroll to work. The last substantial one that I know of was putting the shelter in at the Carbaughs and assisting Emma Jane some. Both very worthy endeavors. Perhaps the participants in this forum could put forth some suggestions that could contribute to protecting, maintaining or improving our sites.
Years before I became involved in the sport, a dedicated group of people unknown to me put forth a great deal of blood, sweat and money to acquire our privately owned site at the Pulpit. It would sure be nice if we could produce the same level of dedication and effort to obtain the same assurance that a landing area will always be there for us that we have for our launch. It would be tragic to one day lose any of our sites because we couldn't protect the tail end of the flight, particularly one in which we have so much invested.
Anyone interested?
Dan T
The two big expenses are for landowners gifts and site insurance. These are yearly expenses and neither is negligible. Some of your money goes to the Pulpit, which has to pay property taxes.
Next time you go to High Rock, you'll experience a nicer drive down Coffee Pot Lane. That was an expenditure of sweat and some cash this past Fall.
People talk about securing an LZ at the Pulpit or High Rock. I think the great expense of doing anything permanent always stops us in the end. An LZ will cost a lot more money than a launch.
Next time you go to High Rock, you'll experience a nicer drive down Coffee Pot Lane. That was an expenditure of sweat and some cash this past Fall.
People talk about securing an LZ at the Pulpit or High Rock. I think the great expense of doing anything permanent always stops us in the end. An LZ will cost a lot more money than a launch.
David Bodner
DUES!!!
We do have a non-flying membership-- it's 25 bucks.
It's right on the membership form!!!!
See-- http://www.chgpa.org/ClubInfo/chgpa.memb_form.html
So for 40 bucks you can be a flying member and for 25 you can support the club as a non-flying member. That's less that $2.09 per month.
How much do you spend for a cup of coffee at Starbucks?
How much do you spend on beer each month??? On wine?
How about your cell phone?? Cable TV??? Internet access???
Pilots can spend money left and right on a variety of things and can't spare a couple to a few buck per month to support their club.
This is not about Matthew's Hammer. This is about the common courtesy of supporting your club.
And if you do need a hit from Matthew's Hammer, THEN STOP BEING SO DAMNED CHEAP AND PAY YOUR DAMNED DUES!!!!!!!
Matthew
PS Please disregard this message if you have already paid your dues.
It's right on the membership form!!!!
See-- http://www.chgpa.org/ClubInfo/chgpa.memb_form.html
So for 40 bucks you can be a flying member and for 25 you can support the club as a non-flying member. That's less that $2.09 per month.
How much do you spend for a cup of coffee at Starbucks?
How much do you spend on beer each month??? On wine?
How about your cell phone?? Cable TV??? Internet access???
Pilots can spend money left and right on a variety of things and can't spare a couple to a few buck per month to support their club.
This is not about Matthew's Hammer. This is about the common courtesy of supporting your club.
And if you do need a hit from Matthew's Hammer, THEN STOP BEING SO DAMNED CHEAP AND PAY YOUR DAMNED DUES!!!!!!!
Matthew
PS Please disregard this message if you have already paid your dues.
The right to post
Batman wrote:I for one vote for taking away Tad's right to post until he joins .... Do I have a second?
I respectfully disagree. I think the forum should be open to anyone posting to the applicable topic. Unless there is some logical cutoff point it's difficult to see how censoring anyone isn't an invitation to slide down the slippery slope to the political correctness of the moment. I think that's somewhere near the 8th ring of Dante's inferno.
One logical cutoff point might be to open the forum to only dues paying members of the clubs. If we did that we'd lose the opportunity to receive posts from the new and visiting pilots to our area. I doubt that any of us would encourage that.
I submit that it's far better to simply enable people to choose which threads they follow, as it's done now.
Dan T
Hence the reason I rarely visit this forum any more. Hardly any responses to the flying posts ... but 1400 to Tad's Blog Du Jour. Much like the last web "forum" we had prior to the establishment of this one, everyone turned away because of the BS.
I agree that it up to us to choose which thread we read, but it used to be much more uplifting to read about the greatest flight of the week, vice Tad's rant of the day.
C
P.S. Since I'm outta here for the holidays ... Merry Christmas to all and hope to see you back in the mountains & flight parks once the weather warms back to reasonable
I agree that it up to us to choose which thread we read, but it used to be much more uplifting to read about the greatest flight of the week, vice Tad's rant of the day.
C
P.S. Since I'm outta here for the holidays ... Merry Christmas to all and hope to see you back in the mountains & flight parks once the weather warms back to reasonable
Hey Chris, there's an obvious reason for the lack of posts and responsesBatman wrote: I agree that it up to us to choose which thread we read, but it used to be much more uplifting to read about the greatest flight of the week, vice Tad's rant of the day.
to flying topics : There ain't much flying going on!
Happens every year starting around Thanksgiving... With the holidays,
family obligations, and the weather conditions going downhill, the number
of topics that are flight-related always tanks. And the tone of many posts in
the forum is noticeably crankier.
But there's hope you know! Look at any topic which is related to, say,
flying the local sites, and you'll see view-counts in the multiple hundreds.
The "Is Smithsburg open?" thread immediately comes to mind.
For topics that you are frustrated by, I suggest: Don't view them. Don't
bump up their view-counts.
Cheers,
MarkC
. . . Pay Your Dues
Oh, for crying out loud!!!
Why does everything have to be an argument? It's simple. If you use a CHGPA resource, then you should have the common decency of paying your dues.
Dan, Tad, whoever, just go to the web site--
http://www.chgpa.org/ClubInfo/chgpa.memb_form.html
Fill out the form. If you are a flying member, write a check to CHGPA for 40 bucks. If you are a non-flying member, write a check for $25.
Then put the form and the check into an envelope and mail it to--
David Bodner
3208 North 5th Street
Arlington, VA 22201
Don't forget to put a stamp on the envelope.
And if you have not paid your dues for 2007 and you were flying CHGPA maintained sites, and you know who you are, then make the check out for 80 bucks.
Likewise, if you have a friend who isn't on the forum and flies CHGPA sites, for intance someone known as The Greek, tell him to pay his dues.
Do it today!!!!
Matthew
Why does everything have to be an argument? It's simple. If you use a CHGPA resource, then you should have the common decency of paying your dues.
Dan, Tad, whoever, just go to the web site--
http://www.chgpa.org/ClubInfo/chgpa.memb_form.html
Fill out the form. If you are a flying member, write a check to CHGPA for 40 bucks. If you are a non-flying member, write a check for $25.
Then put the form and the check into an envelope and mail it to--
David Bodner
3208 North 5th Street
Arlington, VA 22201
Don't forget to put a stamp on the envelope.
And if you have not paid your dues for 2007 and you were flying CHGPA maintained sites, and you know who you are, then make the check out for 80 bucks.
Likewise, if you have a friend who isn't on the forum and flies CHGPA sites, for intance someone known as The Greek, tell him to pay his dues.
Do it today!!!!
Matthew
-
davidtheamazing1
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:26 am
- Location: DC Area - Hang 3!!
- Contact:
new membership category
Instead of a lifetime membership, which conceptually depends alot on someone's age and a little on their flying mentality, what about a new club membership category, $400/10-year pilot membership? I second the notion of reducing the "paperwork" aspect of membership, while supporting the club and reducing the need for annual nagging/enforcement.
-David
-David
Said he, argumentatively...
In answer to Dan's question about "what has the club done with the dues money lately": in addition to putting gravel on Coffee Pot Lane (admittedly a small monetary contribution) and helping Emma Jane with property taxes and her husband's funeral expenses, in recent years we have established the PG launch at Pulpit (which at least one HG pilot uses - wonder if the rigid drivers will prefer it...) and bought a bush hog for site maintenance.
There are ideas floating around to buy a canoe trailer for getting 4-5 gliders up the back of Woodstock more easily when it's closed in the winter (some concerns that it would not benefit enough pilots - what do you think?) or to buy a scooter tow rig. There's also an initiative to improve the Woodstock launch with "crusher run" which the club will support. We need pilots to support the club not just with dues money, but with ideas and time and effort.
The two ideas about the canoe trailer and the scooter tow have been batted around by the Board of Directors this week, so I invite the proponents (Janni and Dave Bodner respectively), to state the cases in separate threads so the membership (those who pay their dues and take the time to check the fora) can weigh in. As always, the opinions of those who are willing to pitch in and actually do something should receive more consideration than those who merely complain...
Prazdravlyayu bam s Rozhdestvom Xristovym i s Nobym Godom!
- Hugh
In answer to Dan's question about "what has the club done with the dues money lately": in addition to putting gravel on Coffee Pot Lane (admittedly a small monetary contribution) and helping Emma Jane with property taxes and her husband's funeral expenses, in recent years we have established the PG launch at Pulpit (which at least one HG pilot uses - wonder if the rigid drivers will prefer it...) and bought a bush hog for site maintenance.
There are ideas floating around to buy a canoe trailer for getting 4-5 gliders up the back of Woodstock more easily when it's closed in the winter (some concerns that it would not benefit enough pilots - what do you think?) or to buy a scooter tow rig. There's also an initiative to improve the Woodstock launch with "crusher run" which the club will support. We need pilots to support the club not just with dues money, but with ideas and time and effort.
The two ideas about the canoe trailer and the scooter tow have been batted around by the Board of Directors this week, so I invite the proponents (Janni and Dave Bodner respectively), to state the cases in separate threads so the membership (those who pay their dues and take the time to check the fora) can weigh in. As always, the opinions of those who are willing to pitch in and actually do something should receive more consideration than those who merely complain...
Prazdravlyayu bam s Rozhdestvom Xristovym i s Nobym Godom!
- Hugh
PG launch at Pulpit
It is highly recommended that a HG does NOT launch from the PG launch. The distance to solid objects from the wingtip(s) is WAY TOO SMALL (IMHO)!
Bacil
Bacil
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Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
Hmmm--just so happens I've got a complete scooter tow rig with Condors I might part with--would be interesting to see if the club could use it as a recruitment tool and then send students to the benefit of all the schools and instructors in the area. I've often thought the a club-based system of instruction might be a hedge against declining members and instructors. I've helped train one instructor already in Atlanta to teach with scooter towing--pretty easy to do, really.mcelrah wrote:Said he, argumentatively...
In answer to Dan's question about "what has the club done with the dues money lately": in addition to putting gravel on Coffee Pot Lane (admittedly a small monetary contribution) and helping Emma Jane with property taxes and her husband's funeral expenses, in recent years we have established the PG launch at Pulpit (which at least one HG pilot uses - wonder if the rigid drivers will prefer it...) and bought a bush hog for site maintenance.
There are ideas floating around to buy a canoe trailer for getting 4-5 gliders up the back of Woodstock more easily when it's closed in the winter (some concerns that it would not benefit enough pilots - what do you think?) or to buy a scooter tow rig. There's also an initiative to improve the Woodstock launch with "crusher run" which the club will support. We need pilots to support the club not just with dues money, but with ideas and time and effort.
The two ideas about the canoe trailer and the scooter tow have been batted around by the Board of Directors this week, so I invite the proponents (Janni and Dave Bodner respectively), to state the cases in separate threads so the membership (those who pay their dues and take the time to check the fora) can weigh in. As always, the opinions of those who are willing to pitch in and actually do something should receive more consideration than those who merely complain...
Prazdravlyayu bam s Rozhdestvom Xristovym i s Nobym Godom!
- Hugh
marc
Great Googly-moo!
Paid Members?
David,
Would you please post in the forum a list of all currently paid members for 2007, and a list of all members paid for 2008?
This is not a privacy matter. We need no personal information beyond names. The club membership roster with contact details is properly protected and shared only with members (even if there is a question about how current that roster is.)
I am only asking for the list of members' names, so we can all see who are members.
Would you please post in the forum a list of all currently paid members for 2007, and a list of all members paid for 2008?
This is not a privacy matter. We need no personal information beyond names. The club membership roster with contact details is properly protected and shared only with members (even if there is a question about how current that roster is.)
I am only asking for the list of members' names, so we can all see who are members.
Cragin
Douglas.Cragin(AT)iCloud(DOT)com
Weather - https://sites.google.com/site/hgweather/
Flying - http://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/
Kay's Stuff- http://kayshappenings.blogspot.com/
GO to 50 https://sites.google.com/site/hgmemories/Home/50th
Douglas.Cragin(AT)iCloud(DOT)com
Weather - https://sites.google.com/site/hgweather/
Flying - http://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/
Kay's Stuff- http://kayshappenings.blogspot.com/
GO to 50 https://sites.google.com/site/hgmemories/Home/50th
-
Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
I'm still confused about what you guys want. If you want a scooter system for non-students to use--then you will likely want a system with more power to achieve higher tows.
The low-power "low & slow" systems designed by Steve are intended for training purposes only, and as such are intended to be used with slow flying gliders. While my system is slightly higher powered than Steve's first-day 50 and 70 cc units, it's still not enough for much of anything beyond light training use--though I can still manage to get H2 qualifying pattern tows in. Unless the club is serious about getting into some kind of recruitment/training regime (which is a good idea if done right) I don't see how this investment makes any sense.
In any case, my unit was custom built to my specifications on a trailer using a brand-new scooter, the total cost for the scooter system with line was around $6,500.00. It's had several year's but very light use, so I might be talked into taking somewhat less.
Decide what it is you really want to do, how it's going to benefit the club, then call experienced tow operators and get their advice--would be my advice.
Although I still think that everyone would be better off if more effort was put into finding and opening new sites--both training hills and mountain sites.
marc
The low-power "low & slow" systems designed by Steve are intended for training purposes only, and as such are intended to be used with slow flying gliders. While my system is slightly higher powered than Steve's first-day 50 and 70 cc units, it's still not enough for much of anything beyond light training use--though I can still manage to get H2 qualifying pattern tows in. Unless the club is serious about getting into some kind of recruitment/training regime (which is a good idea if done right) I don't see how this investment makes any sense.
In any case, my unit was custom built to my specifications on a trailer using a brand-new scooter, the total cost for the scooter system with line was around $6,500.00. It's had several year's but very light use, so I might be talked into taking somewhat less.
Decide what it is you really want to do, how it's going to benefit the club, then call experienced tow operators and get their advice--would be my advice.
Although I still think that everyone would be better off if more effort was put into finding and opening new sites--both training hills and mountain sites.
marc
Great Googly-moo!
$40 - a bargain
In the past year, I have had several flying days that gas for my truck for the day approached $50.
$40 to do yoru part?
Come on.
$40 to do yoru part?
Come on.
Cragin
Douglas.Cragin(AT)iCloud(DOT)com
Weather - https://sites.google.com/site/hgweather/
Flying - http://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/
Kay's Stuff- http://kayshappenings.blogspot.com/
GO to 50 https://sites.google.com/site/hgmemories/Home/50th
Douglas.Cragin(AT)iCloud(DOT)com
Weather - https://sites.google.com/site/hgweather/
Flying - http://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/
Kay's Stuff- http://kayshappenings.blogspot.com/
GO to 50 https://sites.google.com/site/hgmemories/Home/50th
In response to David Churchill's post about 10-year membership/paperwork reduction: for the flying members, there's an annual requirement to show that at least "some" of our membership are paid-up members of USHPA in order for CHGPA to be a an USHPA chapter. USHPA membership is what gets us general 3rd party liability insurance and the club access to specific liability insurance for launch and LZ landowners. The annual membership renewal is how we (sometimes) update the roster, emergency information, etc. We tried Paypal as a revenue mechanism, but a 90% effective implementation turned out to be worse than using paper. Besides, I still had people walking up to me at flying sites and handing me cash. 10 years is a long time - the club might wish it had extracted dues in euros or yuan... As always, people with computer and administrative skills are most welcome to volunteer their time and labor to improve things. We'll even give you some exalted title for your resume! "Chief Information Officer"... - Hugh
must be my accent . . .
Of Course Matthew is right. Of Course he is providing a thankless and necessary service and Of Course he should/deserves to be supported. of course his position is unimpeachable - so much so that i personally wouldn't/couldn't fathom finding anything to argue about.
and of course he is also effective, at least I found that to be the case. and while i've tried to do a little here and a little there when i've seen an opportunity, i also knew that i fell within the scope of his righteous missive.
so i says to myself, Self, why don't you just send in, oh, maybe five years worth and at least you'll be on the right side of the law for at least that long. and i thought that maybe there was a small nugget in that thought. and i didn't detail all of that in my post because i thought it could come across as self-serving. and i also wondered whether i would create a bookkeeping headache for someone.
and maybe i should appologize for perhaps diluting his message. But - at least there was that opportunity to repeat it two more times (more perhaps?), and there were those who apparently found some small merit in parts of what i'd written. and oh what the hell.
(and jim, i gots this sneakin suspiscion that this is just about you missing tad )
Of Course Matthew is right. Of Course he is providing a thankless and necessary service and Of Course he should/deserves to be supported. of course his position is unimpeachable - so much so that i personally wouldn't/couldn't fathom finding anything to argue about.
and of course he is also effective, at least I found that to be the case. and while i've tried to do a little here and a little there when i've seen an opportunity, i also knew that i fell within the scope of his righteous missive.
so i says to myself, Self, why don't you just send in, oh, maybe five years worth and at least you'll be on the right side of the law for at least that long. and i thought that maybe there was a small nugget in that thought. and i didn't detail all of that in my post because i thought it could come across as self-serving. and i also wondered whether i would create a bookkeeping headache for someone.
and maybe i should appologize for perhaps diluting his message. But - at least there was that opportunity to repeat it two more times (more perhaps?), and there were those who apparently found some small merit in parts of what i'd written. and oh what the hell.
(and jim, i gots this sneakin suspiscion that this is just about you missing tad )
garyDevan