As some of you may know, I have been considering the purchase of a new glider this spring. Nothing really wrong with my Litespeed's performance that I couldn't fix with a new fared base tube and thinner side wires but some of the newer gliders also promise slightly easier handling and landing characteristics which, as my beard gets grayer, are attractive assets.
I've been hearing rumours about a new Talon that sounded like a good possibility but I'm also being seduced by the siren's call of rigid wings.
Yesterday I flew the Exxtacy (SP?) that Quest rents. Now this wing is the lowest performing, oldest rigid around AND it carries a heavy conrol frame, landing gear and lots of other draggy attachments. I flew it in strong conditions for an hour and got a taste of how it handles turbulence and strong lift. Only landed cause I became concerned that the weather conditions were looking threatening and the lift was becoming too wide spread.
The glider handled a turbulent tow with ease and performed just below the level of several newer Topless flexwings. Without the gear, etc. I believe I could have easily kicked butt. Now if you add to that the much higher performance of a newer ATOS..... Well, you get the picture. Landings also seem to be easier with these guys (even without gear) and after flying an hour or so I felt completely comfortable with the minor difference with the feel of control.
Pete Lehman would argue, " If you're going to go that far, why not just fly sailplanes?", but the thing is, I still felt I had the same touch with the sky and the wind in my face as I would have with a flex. Things I've heard you loose with a sailplane. Bottom line is, there was no loss of enjoyment and there's no question that you'll spend more time in the air going XC, my two favorite things.
Negatve side is expense (but good used ones are about the same price as a new flex) and I don't think I'd want to set one up and fly out of the slot at Wood Stock (but I guess I've pretty much become a permanent tow head anyway).
I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but I'm still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd love to hear it.
Paul
p.s. Weather forecast for the next several days sucks. Hope none of you are coming down to fly right away. Should be better by next Tuesday or Wednesday.
Joining the Dark Side?
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Joining the Dark Side?
There was a guy in San Diego who flew a rigid. Set-up did seem to be a
bear, but that might not matter to a tow-head. I remember his telling
about one flight where the sink rate was worse than a Falcon. Seems
he'd didn't secure a piece of velcro properly. From that he concluded
his glider was REAL sensitive to proper set-up.
On Thursday, February 24, 2005, at 02:11 PM, Paul Tjaden wrote:
> As some of you may know, I have been considering the purchase of a new
> glider this spring. Nothing really wrong with my Litespeed's
> performance that I couldn't fix with a new fared base tube and thinner
> side wires but some of the newer gliders also promise slightly easier
> handling and landing characteristics which, as my beard gets grayer,
> are attractive assets.
>
> I've been hearing rumours about a new Talon that sounded like a good
> possibility but I'm also being seduced by the siren's call of rigid
> wings.
> Yesterday I flew the Exxtacy (SP?) that Quest rents. Now this wing is
> the lowest performing, oldest rigid around AND it carries a heavy
> conrol frame, landing gear and lots of other draggy attachments. I
> flew it in strong conditions for an hour and got a taste of how it
> handles turbulence and strong lift. Only landed cause I became
> concerned that the weather conditions were looking threatening and the
> lift was becoming too wide spread.
>
> The glider handled a turbulent tow with ease and performed just below
> the level of several newer Topless flexwings. Without the gear, etc. I
> believe I could have easily kicked butt. Now if you add to that the
> much higher performance of a newer ATOS..... Well, you get the
> picture. Landings also seem to be easier with these guys (even without
> gear) and after flying an hour or so I felt completely comfortable
> with the minor difference with the feel of control.
>
> Pete Lehman would argue, " If you're going to go that far, why not
> just fly sailplanes?", but the thing is, I still felt I had the same
> touch with the sky and the wind in my face as I would have with a
> flex. Things I've heard you loose with a sailplane. Bottom line is,
> there was no loss of enjoyment and there's no question that you'll
> spend more time in the air going XC, my two favorite things.
>
> Negatve side is expense (but good used ones are about the same price
> as a new flex) and I don't think I'd want to set one up and fly out of
> the slot at Wood Stock (but I guess I've pretty much become a
> permanent tow head anyway).
>
> I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but
> I'm still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd
> love to hear it.
>
> Paul
>
> p.s. Weather forecast for the next several days sucks. Hope none of
> you are coming down to fly right away. Should be better by next
> Tuesday or Wednesday.
>
>
>
>
bear, but that might not matter to a tow-head. I remember his telling
about one flight where the sink rate was worse than a Falcon. Seems
he'd didn't secure a piece of velcro properly. From that he concluded
his glider was REAL sensitive to proper set-up.
On Thursday, February 24, 2005, at 02:11 PM, Paul Tjaden wrote:
> As some of you may know, I have been considering the purchase of a new
> glider this spring. Nothing really wrong with my Litespeed's
> performance that I couldn't fix with a new fared base tube and thinner
> side wires but some of the newer gliders also promise slightly easier
> handling and landing characteristics which, as my beard gets grayer,
> are attractive assets.
>
> I've been hearing rumours about a new Talon that sounded like a good
> possibility but I'm also being seduced by the siren's call of rigid
> wings.
> Yesterday I flew the Exxtacy (SP?) that Quest rents. Now this wing is
> the lowest performing, oldest rigid around AND it carries a heavy
> conrol frame, landing gear and lots of other draggy attachments. I
> flew it in strong conditions for an hour and got a taste of how it
> handles turbulence and strong lift. Only landed cause I became
> concerned that the weather conditions were looking threatening and the
> lift was becoming too wide spread.
>
> The glider handled a turbulent tow with ease and performed just below
> the level of several newer Topless flexwings. Without the gear, etc. I
> believe I could have easily kicked butt. Now if you add to that the
> much higher performance of a newer ATOS..... Well, you get the
> picture. Landings also seem to be easier with these guys (even without
> gear) and after flying an hour or so I felt completely comfortable
> with the minor difference with the feel of control.
>
> Pete Lehman would argue, " If you're going to go that far, why not
> just fly sailplanes?", but the thing is, I still felt I had the same
> touch with the sky and the wind in my face as I would have with a
> flex. Things I've heard you loose with a sailplane. Bottom line is,
> there was no loss of enjoyment and there's no question that you'll
> spend more time in the air going XC, my two favorite things.
>
> Negatve side is expense (but good used ones are about the same price
> as a new flex) and I don't think I'd want to set one up and fly out of
> the slot at Wood Stock (but I guess I've pretty much become a
> permanent tow head anyway).
>
> I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but
> I'm still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd
> love to hear it.
>
> Paul
>
> p.s. Weather forecast for the next several days sucks. Hope none of
> you are coming down to fly right away. Should be better by next
> Tuesday or Wednesday.
>
>
>
>
-
Danny Brotto
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:29 pm
rigids...
Paul
Get the rigid... and then let me fly it!
Can you mountain launch one w/ a wire crew or will you be towing it exclusivly?
What will you end up spending ($) on one of those things?
As far as being "disconnected from the wind" when flying sailplanes, in a way yes... in another way you are more "connected". After a while, you?ll get used to flying one and you?ll realize just how connected they really are. With a sailplane, you can zip around and sample a much wider portion of the sky and experiment more. You'll actually be able to reach and utilize proto-clouds before they?ve dissipated. You still get wind in your face; just twist the air vent, instant air!
Danny Brotto
Get the rigid... and then let me fly it!
Can you mountain launch one w/ a wire crew or will you be towing it exclusivly?
What will you end up spending ($) on one of those things?
As far as being "disconnected from the wind" when flying sailplanes, in a way yes... in another way you are more "connected". After a while, you?ll get used to flying one and you?ll realize just how connected they really are. With a sailplane, you can zip around and sample a much wider portion of the sky and experiment more. You'll actually be able to reach and utilize proto-clouds before they?ve dissipated. You still get wind in your face; just twist the air vent, instant air!
Danny Brotto
Joining the Dark Side?
In a message dated 2/24/05 2:12:18 PM, tjadenhors@aol.com writes:
<< I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but I'm
still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd love to
hear it. >>
Hey Paul, I can give you a good reason to think about not buying that rigid,
cause that cute lil stay at home wife of yours is going to get her hands on it
one time and you are going to wind up buying two! $20,000 Bubba!
)
On a serious note, I was impressed with how slowly the atos sunk out in the
near sled conditions we had for much of the time we were at wallaby over the
Christmas holiday. 140 fpm or something like that, is a lot of extra time to
recover.
Dan T.
<< I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but I'm
still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd love to
hear it. >>
Hey Paul, I can give you a good reason to think about not buying that rigid,
cause that cute lil stay at home wife of yours is going to get her hands on it
one time and you are going to wind up buying two! $20,000 Bubba!
)On a serious note, I was impressed with how slowly the atos sunk out in the
near sled conditions we had for much of the time we were at wallaby over the
Christmas holiday. 140 fpm or something like that, is a lot of extra time to
recover.
Dan T.
Joining the Dark Side?
Seemed like there were a lot of rigids flying the mountains out west.
I saw 'em in Washington and Montana (fewer trees). Had to help the
guy in Montana carry his wings (plural) up a 45 degree scree slope. -
Hugh
On 24 Feb 2005, at 18:18, David Bodner wrote:
>
> There was a guy in San Diego who flew a rigid. Set-up did seem to be a
> bear, but that might not matter to a tow-head. I remember his telling
> about one flight where the sink rate was worse than a Falcon. Seems
> he'd didn't secure a piece of velcro properly. From that he concluded
> his glider was REAL sensitive to proper set-up.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 24, 2005, at 02:11 PM, Paul Tjaden wrote:
>
>> As some of you may know, I have been considering the purchase of a new
>> glider this spring. Nothing really wrong with my Litespeed's
>> performance that I couldn't fix with a new fared base tube and thinner
>> side wires but some of the newer gliders also promise slightly easier
>> handling and landing characteristics which, as my beard gets grayer,
>> are attractive assets.
>>
>> I've been hearing rumours about a new Talon that sounded like a good
>> possibility but I'm also being seduced by the siren's call of rigid
>> wings.
>> Yesterday I flew the Exxtacy (SP?) that Quest rents. Now this wing is
>> the lowest performing, oldest rigid around AND it carries a heavy
>> conrol frame, landing gear and lots of other draggy attachments. I
>> flew it in strong conditions for an hour and got a taste of how it
>> handles turbulence and strong lift. Only landed cause I became
>> concerned that the weather conditions were looking threatening and the
>> lift was becoming too wide spread.
>>
>> The glider handled a turbulent tow with ease and performed just below
>> the level of several newer Topless flexwings. Without the gear, etc. I
>> believe I could have easily kicked butt. Now if you add to that the
>> much higher performance of a newer ATOS..... Well, you get the
>> picture. Landings also seem to be easier with these guys (even without
>> gear) and after flying an hour or so I felt completely comfortable
>> with the minor difference with the feel of control.
>>
>> Pete Lehman would argue, " If you're going to go that far, why not
>> just fly sailplanes?", but the thing is, I still felt I had the same
>> touch with the sky and the wind in my face as I would have with a
>> flex. Things I've heard you loose with a sailplane. Bottom line is,
>> there was no loss of enjoyment and there's no question that you'll
>> spend more time in the air going XC, my two favorite things.
>>
>> Negatve side is expense (but good used ones are about the same price
>> as a new flex) and I don't think I'd want to set one up and fly out of
>> the slot at Wood Stock (but I guess I've pretty much become a
>> permanent tow head anyway).
>>
>> I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but
>> I'm still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd
>> love to hear it.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> p.s. Weather forecast for the next several days sucks. Hope none of
>> you are coming down to fly right away. Should be better by next
>> Tuesday or Wednesday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
I saw 'em in Washington and Montana (fewer trees). Had to help the
guy in Montana carry his wings (plural) up a 45 degree scree slope. -
Hugh
On 24 Feb 2005, at 18:18, David Bodner wrote:
>
> There was a guy in San Diego who flew a rigid. Set-up did seem to be a
> bear, but that might not matter to a tow-head. I remember his telling
> about one flight where the sink rate was worse than a Falcon. Seems
> he'd didn't secure a piece of velcro properly. From that he concluded
> his glider was REAL sensitive to proper set-up.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 24, 2005, at 02:11 PM, Paul Tjaden wrote:
>
>> As some of you may know, I have been considering the purchase of a new
>> glider this spring. Nothing really wrong with my Litespeed's
>> performance that I couldn't fix with a new fared base tube and thinner
>> side wires but some of the newer gliders also promise slightly easier
>> handling and landing characteristics which, as my beard gets grayer,
>> are attractive assets.
>>
>> I've been hearing rumours about a new Talon that sounded like a good
>> possibility but I'm also being seduced by the siren's call of rigid
>> wings.
>> Yesterday I flew the Exxtacy (SP?) that Quest rents. Now this wing is
>> the lowest performing, oldest rigid around AND it carries a heavy
>> conrol frame, landing gear and lots of other draggy attachments. I
>> flew it in strong conditions for an hour and got a taste of how it
>> handles turbulence and strong lift. Only landed cause I became
>> concerned that the weather conditions were looking threatening and the
>> lift was becoming too wide spread.
>>
>> The glider handled a turbulent tow with ease and performed just below
>> the level of several newer Topless flexwings. Without the gear, etc. I
>> believe I could have easily kicked butt. Now if you add to that the
>> much higher performance of a newer ATOS..... Well, you get the
>> picture. Landings also seem to be easier with these guys (even without
>> gear) and after flying an hour or so I felt completely comfortable
>> with the minor difference with the feel of control.
>>
>> Pete Lehman would argue, " If you're going to go that far, why not
>> just fly sailplanes?", but the thing is, I still felt I had the same
>> touch with the sky and the wind in my face as I would have with a
>> flex. Things I've heard you loose with a sailplane. Bottom line is,
>> there was no loss of enjoyment and there's no question that you'll
>> spend more time in the air going XC, my two favorite things.
>>
>> Negatve side is expense (but good used ones are about the same price
>> as a new flex) and I don't think I'd want to set one up and fly out of
>> the slot at Wood Stock (but I guess I've pretty much become a
>> permanent tow head anyway).
>>
>> I know that this post sounds like I've pretty much made up my mind but
>> I'm still in the decision mode. If anyone has constructive input, I'd
>> love to hear it.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> p.s. Weather forecast for the next several days sucks. Hope none of
>> you are coming down to fly right away. Should be better by next
>> Tuesday or Wednesday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
-
Paul Tjaden
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:28 pm
To David: Talked to a guy down here who lost his nose cover on his rigid and said it flew REALLY bad.
To Danny: Word is, they mountain launch very nicely. Some adjstments might need to be made for wire crew. Biggest problem is wing span (around 42 feet) so narrow slots might not be a great idea. Regarding "wind in my face", not sure opening a side vent will quite get the desired feeling. Maybe I should have said "hanging my ass out in the breeze". How do you do that in a sail plane?
To Dan: I think your reason for not buying one made the most sense. Lauren appreciated the "cute" part. The latest and greatest ATOS VX or VR is running around $15K including shipping. There are a couple of older models down here (a C and a V) that can be had for around $7 to $8K. They are made in Europe and the decline in value of our Dollar has dramatically affected the cost to us.
To Hugh: I think they are fairly popular in most places except the NE. As you said, too many trees and narrow slot launches. They are heavy but only slightly more than a topless. You would, however, need a chain saw to short pack one for transport!
Paul
To Danny: Word is, they mountain launch very nicely. Some adjstments might need to be made for wire crew. Biggest problem is wing span (around 42 feet) so narrow slots might not be a great idea. Regarding "wind in my face", not sure opening a side vent will quite get the desired feeling. Maybe I should have said "hanging my ass out in the breeze". How do you do that in a sail plane?
To Dan: I think your reason for not buying one made the most sense. Lauren appreciated the "cute" part. The latest and greatest ATOS VX or VR is running around $15K including shipping. There are a couple of older models down here (a C and a V) that can be had for around $7 to $8K. They are made in Europe and the decline in value of our Dollar has dramatically affected the cost to us.
To Hugh: I think they are fairly popular in most places except the NE. As you said, too many trees and narrow slot launches. They are heavy but only slightly more than a topless. You would, however, need a chain saw to short pack one for transport!
Paul