Pulpit Launch - Decision Time for MHGA and CHGPA

[Flying Lobster]

Yup, remove the rocks and I'll complain about the ramps, the rock field down below, the shallowness of the launch, too hot, too cold, too cross, too much/little wind velocity, my back/knee/head hurts, I need a new glider, the drive to Pulpit is too far, there are no good restaurants in Mercersburg, we shudda gone to High Rock/Woodstock, there's corn/cornstocks/mud in the LZ, it's overcast/blue, everybody got ahead of me in line, I have to be the first one to launch, my radio doesn't work, people are talking too much on the radio, there are no thermals, the lift is scary strong...

you forgot weaklinks.

marc

[mcelrah]

Airline food sucks - and the portions are small.

[brianvh]

If they're that bad, you should be glad the portions are small.

We're not wandering off topic, are we?

[mcelrah]

You have a keen grasp of the obvious.

Yes we are off topic, but I think we may be converging on a consensus about the Pulpit project.

Anybody got a projector for Janni to present PowerPoints at the meeting?

- Hugh

[DanTuck]

Projector?
I think my grandma told me about those things.

[brianvh]

If you all can drive up to New York I'll put in a conference room with a smart board and satellite imagery.

[mcelrah]

OK, Mr. Smarty Pants, what do you use? 3D holographic image...projector!

[markc]

MISCONCEPTION: all rocks to the right and left of the gravel would be removed, as stated in Janni's original post.

Shawn thinks that only those next to the new ramp will be removed. I don't give a rat's ass about them, I say blast them to kingdom come. I DO care about the rocks next to the old ramp. They have major personality. These probably don't have to be touched, or lightly shaped at most.

The current pad is 25-30 feet wide. Extending it to the new ramp by pulverizing the boulders next to it would double this width to about 50 feet. Launching from the new middle means you are out of wind shadow both of the big boulders next to the old ramp and the new ramp unless you have more than a moderate cross wind.

I'll be out of town for the April meeting, so I wanted to chime in with an opinion that agrees with Brian's : Don't mess
with the rocks near the old ramp unless it's absolutely necessary.

Yup, you can call me a rock-hugger! I've also been known to frown on people's plans to put down astroturf at
launch sites, because it's so frickin' tacky/ugly/unnatural. So if the widened slope/slot launch can reasonably
accomodate HG & PG without major impacts to the rocks on the left... Then I say leave 'em as-is, or as close
to as-is as possible. Just my $0.02 .

Cheers,

MarkC

[RedBaron]

Why exactly do we need those rocks Mark and Brian? Please tell me they've got more than your sentiments going for them, please tell me this ain't about "they're so cute and historical", please.

[brianvh]

That's about half of it. The other half is why do more work than you need to? Doubling the area of the launch pad by extending it towards the new ramp is plenty enough space. Stand there and see for yourself. I think when people look at it and see all the work needed to dismantle the rocks, they will start looking an awful lot cuter.

[markc]

Why exactly do we need those rocks Mark and Brian? Please tell me they've got more than your sentiments going for them, please tell me this ain't about "they're so cute and historical", please.

Have you ever heard the expression "Leave only your footprints" ?

Look at how development works around DC : They bring in the dozers, flatten everything,
cut all the trees down, and build another subdivision/King Farm/ManMansion village/etc.

For our own little slope-launch development: If we have the option of treading
lightly (regarding impact on the rock outcroppings), then I'm just suggesting that we
do so. Yeah, I *LIKE* rocks. Not to the point of teary-eyed sentimentality.... Just to
the point of "Leave things alone until/unless you can't" .

MarkC

[RedBaron]

The other half is why do more work than you need to?

As I stated before, they're a valuable source of fill-in material.

Look at how development works around DC : They bring in the dozers, flatten everything,
cut all the trees down, and build another subdivision/King Farm/ManMansion village/etc.

Don't be over-dramatic. Sheesh. The quote doesn't include the build of a McDonald's restaurant and I'm sure we'll leave less of a foot-print than a bunch of hang gliding nutjobs driving their trucks up to the site every week.

[brianvh]

Just have people stand at the actual launch with BOTH plans in mind. Tomorrow should be a good day for that.

a very rough estimate given that the rocks are not a solid cube of material, is that if spread over the whole area between the ramps they will raise the height by 1.5 feet. Are they worth losing for 1.5 feet of fill? If we are building a retaining wall and grading below it, do we really need the extra 50% of work done at and below the lip if we include the rocks?

estimation method: rocks are about 8 feet above the pad. Call it 9 feet. If they are a cube uniformly spread over 3 times the original area, they would raise it 3 feet. But they only fill about 1/2 the volume of the cube that would enclose them.

[brianvh]

I should clarify that the rocks beside the old ramp, the pad, and the rocks beside the new ramp each take up roughly equal amounts of the ridge, each being about 25-30 feet wide. I think 50-60 feet is a plenty wide enough run-off area.

[mcelrah]

I was thinking a nice big vinyl-sided McMansion occupying the entire set-up area. The PG launch will make a nice golf driving range and the ramps can be levelled and add railings to make decks... - Hugh

[Richard Hays]

All this talk of moving around boulders and retaining walls. Hmmm. Well, the contract better specify EXACTLY what is to be expected of the contractor when the job is completed. Every building contractor I've ever spoken with or dealt with always has/had a "rock clause" in it wherin it was a pretty big deal to them crushing and moving around exsisting rock. I have not seen the proposal Bacil has but the one I have states nothing more than basically a gravel delivery and machine time to put it in place.

Also; who is in charge of removing the Bill Bennett memorial plaque and where will it be relocated to ?

Also; we still have to keep enough money in the Pulpit fund to pay taxes and insurance, fix the pavillion, etc. I think I've already expressed these concerns previously, but....if not I do hope that we're keeping this all in perspective from a cost standpoint.

Rich Hays
Prez. MHGA

[brianvh]

Yep, another reason to leave the rocks be. Bill Bennett memorial is sacred ground.

[charlieg]

Just to put an oar in the water -- I am in favor of any proposal other than the status quo that will result in improved and safer conditions for paragliding, and hang gliding, launches.
Charlie

[Dan T]

This has been a very intelligent and democratic discussion. I think the politicians in DC could learn a little from us. I am especially pleased to see that the paraglider only pilots weighed in on the subject and hope that they continue to participate in our club's activities.

I request to withdraw my "no" vote and change it to a "yes" on the condition that the final plan "tread lightly" on the ecosystem including the rocks, to the extent that it can.

Dan T
In Bulgaria learning how to take advantage of that new launch!

[RedBaron]

Tomorrow I will meet with the contractor on site, address the points made in this discussion and give you a detailed and revised description of the proposal.
I will also take pictures as requested by Mark and Jim to give everybody who's not familiar with the site an idea of what we're trying to do. I will start a new thread and would like to ask everybody who is not able to make the meeting to cast your vote. Let the clubs know where you stand and how you'd like them to put your money to use.

[brianvh]

It seems you have two proposals to get estimates on:

1. the original plan of clearing the area between the ramps, but with the revised idea of the improved retaining wall and some grading going down the slope. Not sure how much of this revision is to be our work or the contractor's.
2. The same as above, but not including the rocks next to the old ramp.

the first may save money by using the rocks as fill, but use extra money by modifying a larger area. It would be interesting to see how the two components balance each other assuming you raise the pad the same height.

It's a great thing you guys are doing, thanks for continuing to move on it.

[kcarra]

I took some pictures on Saturday but it wouldn't hurt to have more.

Karen

[mcelrah]

Bah! Too much sweetness and light! Proponents of "improving" the launch are a bunch of pinko Communist queers. Opponents are a bunch of brain-dead limpdicks. Let the flames begin! - Hugh

[Dan T]

I stumbled into the following post from a club in Dunlap California. The Foundation for Free Flight provided a substantial amount of assistance in getting their launch improved. Has anyone considered checking with them to see if they could help us with the improvements at the Pulpit? It seems like our privately owned site, along with our willingness to make a substantial investment of our own funds would make us a very good candidate.

I stumbled into the site because it's raining today in Sopot Bulgaria. No flying. I've flown so much recently I needed the day off.

Dan T

http://dunlapflightpark.org/default.aspx

[RedBaron]

I met with Gerald Martin, took pictures and measurements and will present our revised proposal including all requested documentation both here and at the meeting as soon as I've got the new quote (tonight or in the morning). In brief, Gerald stuck me as a very interested, honest and competent professional.

The tall rocks next to the old ramp including the placard won't be touched as requested.

The bottom of the pad will be extended by 10 feet and a retaining wall will be built using existing rocks. Together with the material used for the new pad (2A modified crusher run stone, which packs very tightly and is commonly used for driveways) this will be a superior solution to what's in place and washing out right now.

The new quote will approximately run around 6-7 grand, including 3 days' of labour.

Consultation with other clubs won't be necessary. This is a straightforward job, the details have been worked out and we need to move forward and have a decision. Stay tuned and let the clubs know where you stand. Don't just stand by, don't just sit back and don't just leave the decision to a few apparatschiks.