Frigid Flying Fools : Sun04Feb at Woodstock?

[markc]

The ADDs 3K is predicting 20-30 tomorrow, which will hopefully be
moderated by the Woodstock effect.

If it looks like the odds of more solidly W winds are better than they
were today, then Gary and I are planning to give it a try on Sunday.

It will be *COLD* :

SUNDAY
MOSTLY SUNNY AND BRISK. HIGHS IN THE MID 20S...EXCEPT
HIGHS AROUND 16 AT THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS. WEST WINDS 10 TO 20 MPH...
INCREASING TO 20 TO 25 MPH IN THE AFTERNOON.

And unless they re-open the road today, looks like it'll be a hike up
the back.

But we'll be legends!!!

MarkC
Mobile: 301-807-5414

[markc]

A few encouraging signs tonight! The "increasing 20-25" is gone
from the NWS surface 'cast:

SUNDAY
PARTLY SUNNY. HIGHS IN THE MID 20S. WEST WINDS 10 TO
20 MPH.

SUNDAY NIGHT
MOSTLY CLOUDY. COLD WITH LOWS AROUND 8 ABOVE.
NORTHWEST WINDS 10 TO 20 MPH.

The hourly is solid W all day:

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapCli ... ld2=-78.53

ADDs 3k still 20-30, but hopefully not blow-out-strong.

MarkC

[John Simon]

You are a certified sicko... It's gonna be blue gnads cold tomorrow... plus I hear there's (relatively) warm beer and some foosball. I know it doesn't match up to soaring in the mountains, but it's likely to be colder and come with pizza.

Waiting for warmer weather to join the sicko's.

John

[theflyingdude]

It seems to me, you guys are really pushing the envelope. There's rule of thumb in the whitewater kayaking world that suggests when you're paddling in cold conditions, you should drop back a level. In other words, if you're comfortable paddling class 4 water in moderate temperatures, you shouldn't exceed class 3 water when paddling in winter conditions. The reason being that even minor problems can become life-threatening when you throw in the risk of hypothermia.

A blown launch or landing or getting treed can be a real inconvenience when it happens during the warm months (not to mention the obvious risk of being broken), but when you consider the added risk of hypothermia from the bitter cold, these incidents take on a whole new level of risk.

Another thing to consider is the fact that there's a big difference between 10 - 20 mph velocities when it's 75 degrees versus when it's 25 degrees as the colder air is more dense.

Everyone has their own risk tolerance and I'd be a hypocrite to suggest that I've always erred on the side of safety or good judgement, but I'd like to think that I've gotten slightly smarter about the conditions I'm willing to fly in. Occasionally, I do need a reminder, but I'm trying to avoid learning the hard lesson. Of course, your mileage may vary.

JR

[markc]

Don't worry JR, I'm perfectly willing to say "Nope, not a good day",
even if it means hiking the glider and gear back down the mtn.

Gary and I are going to at least go take a look, hike the harnesses
in first, see what the winds are doing.

Planning to meet in the LZ at 11. Polar bears wanted

MarkC

[markc]

Wow. Some days are just totally full, ya know? I've got one of those
good-tireds, and an attitude adjustment that was more needed than I
realized...

Just me and Gary at Woodstock today. We hiked up the harnesses first,
hung around on launch and up in the tower for a while, then decided
it would be worth hauling the gliders up at about 12:40.

Of course it starts crankin' by the time we've set up. Major freight
trains, no chance of flying. So we head to the back side and hang out
in the sun for a while. Surprisingly nice! Way better than the
16 degrees they were claiming yesterday. A thermos of hot chocolate
helps too!

After a trip or two back to the gliders things seem to be mellowing
by 3:30. Still definitely strong, but looking better.

I launched first around 4:00. DEFINITELY rowdy getting out of the
slot, but talked to Gary and he didn't think it looked terrible or
anything. It seemed like he might have had a better cycle when he
launched, looked good from the air.

I had a fun time! Not great, but good. Thermals were crankin' through;
I saw 400' up on the averager routinely, and topped out at 2100' over
on one ride. Never used more than 1/2-VG .

Gary's flight sounded like it was a lot more work. I guess it was
one of those days when a little more performance really makes a
difference for the fun-factor.

Coolest sight: A bald eagle dog-fighting with a red-tail, or perhaps
another bald without the distintive markings. I interrupted them
for a while, and chased after the bald. Then they went back to their
thing, zigging and zagging, locking talons sometimes... What a sight!

I landed a bit before sunset after cruising out into the valley,
still 1500' over and spinning over the river. It started building
not long after landing, so I was glad to be on the ground.

Didn't get too cold, but had the whole 9 yards: thermal layers,
fleece jacket, ski-suit, balaklava, googles, gloves, bar-mitts,
and heat packs in the mitts. My ears were a bit cold, but that was
it.

We headed down into Woodstock, picked up some brews, and drove
around the mountain to Gary's truck and to free Sub-Dude. Then I
zoomed back home to meet friends for a Super Bowl party.

Great day, good flying!

MarkC

[Flying Lobster]

It seems to me, you guys are really pushing the envelope. There's rule of thumb in the whitewater kayaking world that suggests when you're paddling in cold conditions, you should drop back a level. ...Occasionally, I do need a reminder, but I'm trying to avoid learning the hard lesson. Of course, your mileage may vary.

JR

Are you suggesting I reconsider flying in Maine when its 5 degrees below zero?

marc

[brianvh]

Another thing to consider is the fact that there's a big difference between 10 - 20 mph velocities when it's 75 degrees versus when it's 25 degrees as the colder air is more dense.
JR

Right on with the hypothermia quote, but I've yet to see anyone do the math before claiming a huge difference in air density between winter and summer. The numbers you quote only work out to a 10% difference in density. Force is linear with air density but goes as the square of the speed, so for a 15 mph average wind this works out to the equivalent of increasing the wind speed by slightly less than 1 mph for a 10% increase in force.

When has anyone started complaining about flying at wind speeds 1 mph above optimal?

let's worry about the cold, not the density. I think the air may be smoother in the winter due to no leaves on the trees, or have a sharper gradient from the ground or something...more likely that's what we notice on take off.

[Flying Lobster]

I ain't no fizzics-breath Brian--but any pilot with any significant winter airtime (and I have quite a bit) will attest that cold (often dry) air will in fact have a significant and noticeable effect on your flying compared to similar warm weather conditions.

There's also variability in gusts, vertical shearing and other effects of turbulence.

marc

[stevek]

I think cold air makes a lot of difference. Part of it is that cold air is drier and therefore more dense. So you have two factors working. An example that everyone will recognize is that landing when it is 95 degrees and 90 percent humidity is a lot different (and more difficult) than landing when it is 20 degrees. Plus the cow pies are frozen. Density altitude which takes all that into account (including the cow pies) can go up by a factor of 3..

[deveil]

any effect on the materials of the glider itself, resulting in altered performanc/feel? density, porosity, tightness of sail? performance of the tubing? ya know, since your kicking it around.

[Ashley Groves]

I am not to worried about the temperature effects on density, of the shrinkage of aluminum or sail.
I think the density effect is even less than the 10% quoted by Brian, more like 7%. It all adds to the mix, but you also will have less heat energy applied by the Sun, which probably makes for the smoother feel on the ridges. Once your in the air, density effects are not noticeble, except hypoxia.
The biggest factor in enjoying a flight (At sea level, high desert, heat, and cold, and everything inbetween, so long as it is GOOD FLYING CONDITIONS) is pilot attitude. I have seen pilots (me included) that once convinced a certain landing will result in a bad landing, the pilot will be right. No conditions, however favorable, will prevent this.
So if you want to go flying and the weather forecast looks favorably, go flying. So long as you can have fun in the cold.
Me? I have to get the sail back on my glider before I can enjoy the winters flying. ummm- I'll get right on that. Although I did enjoy some nice winter Woodstock flights last winter...

[Batman]

I didn't know significant shrinkage had anything to do with winter flying ... doesn't that induce less drag than the warmer months? I knew there was a reason I hated winter flying ... I never wanted to be short changed....