welcome to the new pres, same as the old pres ???

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deveil
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welcome to the new pres, same as the old pres ???

Post by deveil »

especially if the Iraq Study Group, co-chaired by James Baker and Lee Hamilton, recommends significant changes in policy, which you could use as a starting point for rebuilding a bipartisan national consensus.
rummy's replacement was part of that very group.

i just had this weird, weird premonotion. (been listening to commentary all day)

cheney shanghaied the vp process and then proceeded to pack the house with the neocons - efffectively making them the only voices that bush ever heard. bush, totally out of his league and overtaken by the events of 9/11 (remember the stunned 9(?) minutes at the grade school?) followed/was manipulated by these political pros who presented him with one voice.

he just dumped rumsfield.
cheney argued to keep rumsfield.
cheney and rummy have been long-time associates.
cheney wouldn't argue for rummy to stay unless rummy actually had NOT wanted to leave.
SO...georgie has, in fact, stood up to the neo cons.
they and their ideas are GONE.
he's a stubborn guy.
doesn't change course or let people go easily, by his nature.
meaning, he feels he's been betrayed, misled, whatever
meaning, he's DONE with every and any thing to do with them.
georgie, a man with no ideas of his own (just principals, remember?) will now be listening to a whole new group of guys, a group of pragmatists.
he's got two years. he's faced the reality that everything up to now has been failure (though he still believes in his own 'rightness', his having been annointed by 'you know who')

THIS will actually Allow him to 'turn on a dime', with out blinking an eye.

okay, this is the wierd premonition: georgie is actually going to spend the next two years as a totally new and different president, perhaps being Very effective, and try to make his place in history something very different from what has been written so far.
remember nixon/china/detente?
strange things can happen.
especially when your talking about 'believer' types...
deveil wrote:

Richard Holbrooke, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, writes a monthly column for The Post.
© 2006 The Washington Post Company


Three Choices, Mr. President
The Least Bad Option on Iraq: Disengagement and Damage Control

By Richard Holbrooke
Tuesday, October 24, 2006; A19

Dear Mr. President:

As soon as the midterm elections are over -- and regardless of their outcome -- you will have to make the most consequential decision of your presidency, probably the most complicated any president has had to make since Lyndon Johnson decided to escalate in Vietnam in 1965, and far more difficult than your decisions after Sept. 11, 2001. Then, you rallied a nation in shock, overthrew the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and confronted Iran and North Korea over their nuclear programs -- acting in all cases with self-confidence and overwhelming national approval.

Now all four projects are in peril. With far less public support, and time running out on your presidency, you must reverse the recent decline in Afghanistan, get North Korea back to the six-party talks, isolate a cocky, dangerous Iran that thinks events are going its way and, above all, figure out what to do with Iraq. So allow me to offer some very unsolicited suggestions on that war.

Broadly speaking, you have three choices: "Stay the course," escalate or start to disengage from Iraq while pressing hard for a political settlement. I will argue for the third course, not because it is perfect but because it is the least bad option.

In your radio address last week, you said that "our goal in Iraq is clear and unchanging: . . . victory." You added that the only thing changing "are the tactics. . . . Commanders on the ground are constantly adjusting their approach to stay ahead of the enemy, particularly in Baghdad." One can only hope that you do not mean those words literally -- or believe them. "Stay the course" is not a strategy; it is a slogan, useful in domestic politics but meaningless in the field.

Your real choice comes down to escalation or disengagement. If victory -- however defined -- is truly your goal, you should have sent more troops long ago. You and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld say that the commanders in Iraq keep telling you they don't need more troops, but, frankly, even if technically accurate, this is baffling. Plain and simple, there are not, and never have been, enough troops in Iraq to accomplish the mission.

But where would more troops come from? The Pentagon says the all-volunteer Army is stretched to the breaking point; it is now recruiting 42-year-olds and lowering entry standards. Afghanistan also needs more troops. And suppose additional troops do not turn the tide? Does the United States then send still more? Even advocates aren't sure escalation will produce a turnaround.

The last option is the most difficult for an embattled wartime president: Change your goals, disengage from the civil war already underway, focus maximum effort on seeking a political power-sharing agreement, and try to limit further damage in the region and the world.

Even your strongest critics understand that disengagement is fraught with risk. You have warned of the bloody consequences that might follow a U.S. withdrawal. Preventing such a tragedy must be your first priority. For this and other reasons, I do not favor a fixed timetable for withdrawal, since it would give away any remaining American flexibility and leverage. But the kind of killing that you predict would follow an American departure is in fact already underway, and nothing we have done has prevented it from increasing rapidly. At the current pace, there will be well over 40,000 murders a year in Iraq. A recent University of Maryland poll found that 78 percent of Iraqis surveyed believe the American presence is now "provoking more conflict than it is preventing," and 71 percent support a U.S. withdrawal within one year.

I urge you to lay out realistic goals, redeploy our troops and focus on the search for a political solution. We owe that to the Iraqis who welcomed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and put their trust in us, only to find their lives in danger as a result. By a political solution, I mean something far more ambitious than current U.S. efforts aimed at improving the position of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki by changing ministers or setting timelines for progress. Sen. Joe Biden and Les Gelb have advocated what they call, in a reference to the negotiations that ended the war in Bosnia in 1995, a "Dayton-like" solution to the political situation -- by which they mean a looser federal structure with plenty of autonomy for each of the three main groups, and an agreement on sharing oil revenue. Your administration has dismissed these proposals out of hand, and the time lost since Gelb first presented them more than two years ago has made them far more difficult to achieve.

Yet only two weeks ago, the Iraqi parliament took a big step toward creating more powerful regions, with an interesting proviso to delay implementation for 18 months. You could use this legislation as leverage to negotiate a peaceful arrangement for sharing power and oil revenue, while redeploying and reducing our forces in Iraq. If such an effort fails, nothing has been lost by trying.

Those who say this is a proposal to partition Iraq into three countries (which it is not) and would trigger all-out civil war are misrepresenting the idea, while offering nothing in its place. Whatever else you do, Mr. President, you should send American troops to northern Iraq (Kurdistan), which is still safe but increasingly tense, to reduce the very real risk of a Turkish-Kurdish war. Both the Turks and the Kurds would welcome this U.S. presence, but it would have to be accompanied by a cessation of Kurdish terrorist raids into Turkey. This would allow Special Forces troops to move rapidly into other parts of Iraq if a terrorist target appeared, and it would show the world that you were not withdrawing from America's commitment to Iraq.

In recent years, almost any advocate of a change in policy has been accused of wanting to "cut and run." Such rhetoric works against the bipartisanship that this crisis requires. But if you were to decide to draw down American troops -- without a fixed timetable -- and seek a political compromise, the responsible leadership of the Democratic Party would surely work with you, especially if the Iraq Study Group, co-chaired by James Baker and Lee Hamilton, recommends significant changes in policy, which you could use as a starting point for rebuilding a bipartisan national consensus.

This crisis is far too acute for recrimination. If we are still at war during the 2008 campaign, as seems likely if you do not change course, it will benefit neither party but will leave your successor with the same choices you now face, but under far worse circumstances.
deveil
Posts: 1336
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: garyD - Falls Church, Va

Post by deveil »

OR... :idea:
it could be the scotch :shock:
(a guy can celebrate, can't he?!) :wink:
deveil
Posts: 1336
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: garyD - Falls Church, Va

Post by deveil »

from the december 'vanity fair', writen before the election, by michael wolf, titled: 'survivor: the white house edition'.

"as with vietnam, so with iraq: in the last act of a failed war the backstage action is about savng reputatons, not lives. the flurry of exits, finger-pointing, and self-justification exploited by bob woodward leaves usty three men to blame; bush, cheny, and rumsfeld. which is where henry kissinger, the master survivor, comes in."

"...in the third act of a failing war--when, in vietnam, most of the american casuslties actuallu occurred--much of the off-site drama involves how the panicky people involved with the mess manage their own public relations."

"... colin powell, currently working so hard on salvaging his reputaion, knew that the war was a hopeless calamity pretty much 2,500 bodies ago."..."senator carl levin, the ranking democrat on the senate armed services commitee,...i don't have the stomach to hear(about) his anguish."..."i don't want to read a year or two years later saying that this is the worst moment of his life or something."

..."rummy...is, let's face it, dead. he's gone at any moment."

..."so, yes, cheney is the new nixon"...."cheney, in this respect, is such a gift. born to be hated. he might even willingly--given his dystopian personality--take the fall. he resigns--his hundred heart attacks could be the gentle cover. but it's clear: the war's on him."..."mcCain is nominated to repace cheney a v.p. the republicans go wild because they have a presidential contendera in the white house..." "tahe smarty-media pendulum swings...because mccain is mccain... a big conference of arabs is convened. mccain heads a blue-ribbon delegation to iraq (powell comes back for this), which determines that iraqis are ready to handle their own security. we cut and run, declaring victory. and bush can go to china, or north korea. with kissinger.
the end in iraq may not yet be near, but it is ordained."

interesting. there's a lot of other 'good' stuff in the article, but i thought i'd post this just to keep track of how prescient it might be...garyD
deveil
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: garyD - Falls Church, Va

Post by deveil »

marco zee wrote:The campaign for 2008 is now underway.....should be an interesting next two years.
deveil
Posts: 1336
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: garyD - Falls Church, Va

Post by deveil »

and now that the republican party has been rebuked in the election...

and now that rummy has been jettisoned...

and now that georgie is saying he's gonna be taking a new look at iraq..

with the writing now clearly on the wall -

i would say this -

-anyone who Still carries on about 'sticking and winning' and 'cutting and running'...
-anyone who WAS 'carrying water' for the disadministrations iraq policies -
who doesn't NOW do a sober reevalution...

IS at risk of having blood on their hands..........(!)

think about it -
the 'players' are all repositioning.
the young men and women, the ones 'in play' , the ones positioned to spill the blood - are still at risk...
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