WHOOPS!
i slipped!
keith oberman took control of my tv and i had a relapse.
if you want to see a kick-ass, no holds barred, righteous indignation, 'calling him out' response to rumsffield's 'hitler appeasement' jaw dropping charges - try to catch tonights msnbc's 'countdown with keith oberman'. my cable reruns it somewhere around 12 or 1am. it'll make you cheer from fear.
'they' are rolling out the heavy handed fall election campaign.
to my mind, these guys are cynical, criminal, psychopaths (yeah - really - Criminals) not just the usual politicians as criminals, but abhorrent, amoral, dangerous people.
people should be paying attention. it ain't just 'politics as usual'. Nothing is/will be more significant, as a citizen - right here and right now - in your lifetime.
yeah, okay. i'll find out where marc went to get that proffessional help. cause, baby - one of us is losing it - me or 'them'
MarkemX
dear mr. rumsfield, KISS MY ASS (with all due respect)
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
There are evil people, and its NOT Rummy & GWB
Wow...that comment must have really struck a nerve deep within you. You are really wound up, much more than usual.
As a HUGE SUPPORTER of Bush and Rummy, I am grateful that these two incredible Patriots have the insight to recognize the evil forces that are threatening our great country, and the courage to aggressively battle these forces, despite the fearful politically-motivated objections of the Neo-Appeasors in the Democrat party and the far left.
The liberal left inexplicably sees Bush and Rummy as a greater evil and threat than the IslamoFascists (IF's) that are trying to destroy ALL of us. Unbelievable.
So Bush et al will continue to fight the GWOT on two fronts, abroad against these IF's AND at home against the wrong-headed see-no-evil-except-Bush leftists.
How does it feel to be aligned with Osama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri and other terrorists against the one man in the world with the vision and courage to resist them....GWB? Birds of a feather....OR...useful idiots on the left??? I suspect the latter.
There are evil people in this world, with evil designs on the USA, and if you cannot recognize this evil when you see it, then you do have serious issues that need to be addressed.
Even tho Lieberman is a certified liberal, he has recognized that Bush and the USA are the good guys in this world, and the IF's are the bad guys. Even in liberal Conneticut, he is likely to be re-elected to the Senate BECAUSE OF his support of Bush regarding the GWOT.
MarkemX,...I would suggest that you carefully reexamine and reevaluate who your "friends" and "enemies" are in this world, as Lieberman has done, and do your patriotic duty by helping and supporting GWB in the GWOT, rather than attempting to undermine him in this noble cause against the forces of evil. Or at the very least, suggest what we can do to be more successful in this battle, rather than abandoning the fight and demonizing Rummy & GWB for their legitimate governmental roles.
I could say more, but that's enough for now.
Get some airtime and you'll feel better. Works for me.
I hope everyone has a nice Labor Day weekend.
Marco
As a HUGE SUPPORTER of Bush and Rummy, I am grateful that these two incredible Patriots have the insight to recognize the evil forces that are threatening our great country, and the courage to aggressively battle these forces, despite the fearful politically-motivated objections of the Neo-Appeasors in the Democrat party and the far left.
The liberal left inexplicably sees Bush and Rummy as a greater evil and threat than the IslamoFascists (IF's) that are trying to destroy ALL of us. Unbelievable.
So Bush et al will continue to fight the GWOT on two fronts, abroad against these IF's AND at home against the wrong-headed see-no-evil-except-Bush leftists.
How does it feel to be aligned with Osama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri and other terrorists against the one man in the world with the vision and courage to resist them....GWB? Birds of a feather....OR...useful idiots on the left??? I suspect the latter.
There are evil people in this world, with evil designs on the USA, and if you cannot recognize this evil when you see it, then you do have serious issues that need to be addressed.
Even tho Lieberman is a certified liberal, he has recognized that Bush and the USA are the good guys in this world, and the IF's are the bad guys. Even in liberal Conneticut, he is likely to be re-elected to the Senate BECAUSE OF his support of Bush regarding the GWOT.
MarkemX,...I would suggest that you carefully reexamine and reevaluate who your "friends" and "enemies" are in this world, as Lieberman has done, and do your patriotic duty by helping and supporting GWB in the GWOT, rather than attempting to undermine him in this noble cause against the forces of evil. Or at the very least, suggest what we can do to be more successful in this battle, rather than abandoning the fight and demonizing Rummy & GWB for their legitimate governmental roles.
I could say more, but that's enough for now.
Get some airtime and you'll feel better. Works for me.
I hope everyone has a nice Labor Day weekend.Marco
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: There are evil people, and its NOT Rummy & GWB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marco you said"
How does it feel to be aligned with Osama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri and other terrorists against the one man in the world with the vision and courage to resist them....GWB? Birds of a feather....OR...useful idiots on the left??? I suspect the latter. "
You so simplistically equate all of use liberal democrats, veterans no less, as "aligned with OSama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri..."
SO VERY OFFENSIVE and GROSSLY INACCURATE. I love this great nation and believe this Republican adminsitration has done irrepariable harm to our nation, its freedoms and the rule of law. You can spout your "noble cause crusade stupidity" but it is a fatally flawed approach which ebvery American is eventually going to pay dearly for.
Joe Schad
Wow...that comment must have really struck a nerve deep within you. You are really wound up, much more than usual.
As a HUGE SUPPORTER of Bush and Rummy, I am grateful that these two incredible Patriots have the insight to recognize the evil forces that are threatening our great country, and the courage to aggressively battle these forces, despite the fearful politically-motivated objections of the Neo-Appeasors in the Democrat party and the far left.
The liberal left inexplicably sees Bush and Rummy as a greater evil and threat than the IslamoFascists (IF's) that are trying to destroy ALL of us. Unbelievable.
So Bush et al will continue to fight the GWOT on two fronts, abroad against these IF's AND at home against the wrong-headed see-no-evil-except-Bush leftists.
How does it feel to be aligned with Osama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri and other terrorists against the one man in the world with the vision and courage to resist them....GWB? Birds of a feather....OR...useful idiots on the left??? I suspect the latter.
There are evil people in this world, with evil designs on the USA, and if you cannot recognize this evil when you see it, then you do have serious issues that need to be addressed.
Even tho Lieberman is a certified liberal, he has recognized that Bush and the USA are the good guys in this world, and the IF's are the bad guys. Even in liberal Conneticut, he is likely to be re-elected to the Senate BECAUSE OF his support of Bush regarding the GWOT.
MarkemX,...I would suggest that you carefully reexamine and reevaluate who your "friends" and "enemies" are in this world, as Lieberman has done, and do your patriotic duty by helping and supporting GWB in the GWOT, rather than attempting to undermine him in this noble cause against the forces of evil. Or at the very least, suggest what we can do to be more successful in this battle, rather than abandoning the fight and demonizing Rummy & GWB for their legitimate governmental roles.
I could say more, but that's enough for now.
Get some airtime and you'll feel better. Works for me. I hope everyone has a nice Labor Day weekend.
Marco
Back to top
huddlec
top-o-the-stack
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 97
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marco you said"
How does it feel to be aligned with Osama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri and other terrorists against the one man in the world with the vision and courage to resist them....GWB? Birds of a feather....OR...useful idiots on the left??? I suspect the latter. "
You so simplistically equate all of use liberal democrats, veterans no less, as "aligned with OSama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri..."
SO VERY OFFENSIVE and GROSSLY INACCURATE. I love this great nation and believe this Republican adminsitration has done irrepariable harm to our nation, its freedoms and the rule of law. You can spout your "noble cause crusade stupidity" but it is a fatally flawed approach which ebvery American is eventually going to pay dearly for.
Joe Schad
Wow...that comment must have really struck a nerve deep within you. You are really wound up, much more than usual.
As a HUGE SUPPORTER of Bush and Rummy, I am grateful that these two incredible Patriots have the insight to recognize the evil forces that are threatening our great country, and the courage to aggressively battle these forces, despite the fearful politically-motivated objections of the Neo-Appeasors in the Democrat party and the far left.
The liberal left inexplicably sees Bush and Rummy as a greater evil and threat than the IslamoFascists (IF's) that are trying to destroy ALL of us. Unbelievable.
So Bush et al will continue to fight the GWOT on two fronts, abroad against these IF's AND at home against the wrong-headed see-no-evil-except-Bush leftists.
How does it feel to be aligned with Osama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri and other terrorists against the one man in the world with the vision and courage to resist them....GWB? Birds of a feather....OR...useful idiots on the left??? I suspect the latter.
There are evil people in this world, with evil designs on the USA, and if you cannot recognize this evil when you see it, then you do have serious issues that need to be addressed.
Even tho Lieberman is a certified liberal, he has recognized that Bush and the USA are the good guys in this world, and the IF's are the bad guys. Even in liberal Conneticut, he is likely to be re-elected to the Senate BECAUSE OF his support of Bush regarding the GWOT.
MarkemX,...I would suggest that you carefully reexamine and reevaluate who your "friends" and "enemies" are in this world, as Lieberman has done, and do your patriotic duty by helping and supporting GWB in the GWOT, rather than attempting to undermine him in this noble cause against the forces of evil. Or at the very least, suggest what we can do to be more successful in this battle, rather than abandoning the fight and demonizing Rummy & GWB for their legitimate governmental roles.
I could say more, but that's enough for now.
Get some airtime and you'll feel better. Works for me. I hope everyone has a nice Labor Day weekend.
Marco
Back to top
huddlec
top-o-the-stack
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 97
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject:
Joe said: " You so simplistically equate all of use liberal democrats, veterans no less, as "aligned with OSama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri..."
SO VERY OFFENSIVE and GROSSLY INACCURATE."
Saddam's lawyers, Osama, and Ahmadenajad (the Iranian nut) are practically quoting Howard Dean and the DNC talking points in their criticisms of GWB.....why is that??? Is it not plainly obvious to state that GWB is battling IF's abroad, and useful idiots of the Left here at home, both of whom are using identical language and reasoning to subvert GWB.
And it goes beyond that in so far as Lieberman is a big Lefty, but he supports Bush on Iraq and the GWOT.
I believe it is VERY OFFENSIVE that the liberal left attacks Bush with the same venom and phraseology as these psychopathic terrorists and dictators.
If you don't like being compared to these abhorrent characters, stop speaking like them.
Be like Liebermann and join us,...help us wipe out these thugs. And you can stay true to your liberal beliefs on domestic issues, like JL. Politics used to end at the waters edge.
Marco
SO VERY OFFENSIVE and GROSSLY INACCURATE."
Saddam's lawyers, Osama, and Ahmadenajad (the Iranian nut) are practically quoting Howard Dean and the DNC talking points in their criticisms of GWB.....why is that??? Is it not plainly obvious to state that GWB is battling IF's abroad, and useful idiots of the Left here at home, both of whom are using identical language and reasoning to subvert GWB.
And it goes beyond that in so far as Lieberman is a big Lefty, but he supports Bush on Iraq and the GWOT.
I believe it is VERY OFFENSIVE that the liberal left attacks Bush with the same venom and phraseology as these psychopathic terrorists and dictators.
If you don't like being compared to these abhorrent characters, stop speaking like them.
Be like Liebermann and join us,...help us wipe out these thugs. And you can stay true to your liberal beliefs on domestic issues, like JL. Politics used to end at the waters edge.
Marco
Re: There are evil people, and its NOT Rummy & GWB
alligned with 54% of the american people? well, it feels pretty good. thanks for asking.Marco Zee wrote:
MarkemX,...I would suggest that you carefully reexamine and reevaluate who your "friends" and "enemies" are in this world...
... How does it feel to be aligned ...against....GWB?
Marco
Marco Zee wrote:
MarkemX... you do have serious issues that need to be addressed.
Marco
well, yeah - i quite clearly STATED that i had serious issues. in that regard, it is encouraging that you are able to get at least few things straight.
and i'm counting on the next round of elections to do the 'addressing'.
i'd say more but, well...the picture you paint is more telling than anything i could hope to accomplish.( does saying that make me a 'pissing contest' participant? so be it.)
Marco said:
Saddam's lawyers, Osama, and Ahmadenajad (the Iranian nut) are practically quoting Howard Dean and the DNC talking points in their criticisms of GWB.....why is that??? Is it not plainly obvious to state that GWB is battling IF's abroad, and useful idiots of the Left here at home, both of whom are using identical language and reasoning to subvert GWB
...Practically quoting Howard Dean...??? I would like to see the quotes please. Does disagreement with George W Bush (GWB) mean a person is a terrorists or someone who appeases terrorists? I think not. But of course I would not expect you to understand that.
I don't know a single Democrat who is opposed to going after Osama and the other terrorists. We just don't buy the whole Iraq war as having anything to do with Osama in the first place. The only thing we have done in Iraq is provide the best possible live fire training and recruiting situation for Osama and the like and substantially enhanced Iran in the world and made it possible for the civil war that is now occuring in Iraq. Without our help Iran would not be in the strong and soon to be nuclear power state. Not good policy in my book unless of course you believe we have trillions of dollars we can waste along with thousands of American lives for George's war with Iraq.
Bottom line Marco, if you really love the Iraq situation go over there and do something useful instead of being just another Dick Cheny, five deferment Chicken Hawk.
Joe
Joe said: " You so simplistically equate all of use liberal democrats, veterans no less, as "aligned with OSama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri..."
SO VERY OFFENSIVE and GROSSLY INACCURATE."
Saddam's lawyers, Osama, and Ahmadenajad (the Iranian nut) are practically quoting Howard Dean and the DNC talking points in their criticisms of GWB.....why is that??? Is it not plainly obvious to state that GWB is battling IF's abroad, and useful idiots of the Left here at home, both of whom are using identical language and reasoning to subvert GWB.
And it goes beyond that in so far as Lieberman is a big Lefty, but he supports Bush on Iraq and the GWOT.
I believe it is VERY OFFENSIVE that the liberal left attacks Bush with the same venom and phraseology as these psychopathic terrorists and dictators.
If you don't like being compared to these abhorrent characters, stop speaking like them.
Be like Liebermann and join us,...help us wipe out these thugs. And you can stay true to your liberal beliefs on domestic issues, like JL. Politics used to end at the waters edge.
Marco
Saddam's lawyers, Osama, and Ahmadenajad (the Iranian nut) are practically quoting Howard Dean and the DNC talking points in their criticisms of GWB.....why is that??? Is it not plainly obvious to state that GWB is battling IF's abroad, and useful idiots of the Left here at home, both of whom are using identical language and reasoning to subvert GWB
...Practically quoting Howard Dean...??? I would like to see the quotes please. Does disagreement with George W Bush (GWB) mean a person is a terrorists or someone who appeases terrorists? I think not. But of course I would not expect you to understand that.
I don't know a single Democrat who is opposed to going after Osama and the other terrorists. We just don't buy the whole Iraq war as having anything to do with Osama in the first place. The only thing we have done in Iraq is provide the best possible live fire training and recruiting situation for Osama and the like and substantially enhanced Iran in the world and made it possible for the civil war that is now occuring in Iraq. Without our help Iran would not be in the strong and soon to be nuclear power state. Not good policy in my book unless of course you believe we have trillions of dollars we can waste along with thousands of American lives for George's war with Iraq.
Bottom line Marco, if you really love the Iraq situation go over there and do something useful instead of being just another Dick Cheny, five deferment Chicken Hawk.
Joe
Joe said: " You so simplistically equate all of use liberal democrats, veterans no less, as "aligned with OSama, Saddam, Al-Zawahiri..."
SO VERY OFFENSIVE and GROSSLY INACCURATE."
Saddam's lawyers, Osama, and Ahmadenajad (the Iranian nut) are practically quoting Howard Dean and the DNC talking points in their criticisms of GWB.....why is that??? Is it not plainly obvious to state that GWB is battling IF's abroad, and useful idiots of the Left here at home, both of whom are using identical language and reasoning to subvert GWB.
And it goes beyond that in so far as Lieberman is a big Lefty, but he supports Bush on Iraq and the GWOT.
I believe it is VERY OFFENSIVE that the liberal left attacks Bush with the same venom and phraseology as these psychopathic terrorists and dictators.
If you don't like being compared to these abhorrent characters, stop speaking like them.
Be like Liebermann and join us,...help us wipe out these thugs. And you can stay true to your liberal beliefs on domestic issues, like JL. Politics used to end at the waters edge.
Marco
'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for August 30
(videoclip: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14601135/ )
the transcript to the Wednesday show:
OLBERMANN: The man who sees absolutes where all other men see nuances and shades of meaning is either a profit or a quack. Donald H. Rumsfeld is not a profit. We end the COUNTDOWN where we began, our No. 1 story with a special comment on Mr. Rumsfeld‘s remarkable speech to the American Legion yesterday. It demands the deep analysis and the sober contemplation of every American, for it did not merely serve to impugn the morality or intelligence, indeed the loyalty of the majority of Americans who impose the transient occupants of the highest offices in the land.
Worst still, it credits those same transient occupants, our employees, with a total omniscience, a total omniscience which neither commonsense nor this administration‘s track record, at home or abroad, suggest they deserve it. Descent and disagreement with government is the life‘s blood of human freedom and not merely because it the first roadblock against the kind of tyranny the men Mr. Rumsfeld likes to think of his troops still fight this very evening in Iraq. It is also essential, because just every once in a while, it is right and the power to which it speaks is wrong.
In a small irony however, Mr. Rumsfeld speech writer was adroit in invoking the memory of the appeasement of the Nazis for in their time, there was another government faced with true peril with a growing evil, powerful, and remorseless. That government, like Mr. Rumsfeld‘s, had a monopoly on all the facts. It too had the secret information, it alone had the true picture of the threat. It too, dismissed and insulted its critics in terms like Mr. Rumsfeld‘s. Questioning their intellect and their morality.
That government was England‘s in the 1930. It knew Hitler posed in true threat to Europe, let alone to England. It knew Germany was not re-arming in violation of all treaties and accords. It knew that the hard evidence it had received, which contradicted its own policies, its own conclusions, its own omniscient, needed to be dismissed.
The English government of Neville Chamberlain (ph) already knew the truth. Most relevant of all, it knew that its staunchest critics need to be marginalized and isolated, in fact it portrayed the foremost of them as a blood-thirsty warmonger who was, if not truly senile, at best morally or intellectually confused. That critics name was Winston Churchill.
Sadly we have no Winston Churchill‘s evidence among this evening, we have only Donald Rumsfeld‘s demonizing disagreement, the way Neville Chamberlain demonized Winston Churchill. History and 163 million pounds of (INAUDIBLE) bombs over England have taught us that all Mr. Chamberlain had was his certainty and his own confusion, a confusion that suggested that the office cannot only make the man, but that the office can make the facts.
Thus did Mr. Rums make an apt historical analogy accepting the fact he has the battery plugged in backwards. His government absolute and exclusive in his knowledge is not the version of please one that stood up to the Nazis it is the modern version of the government of Neville Chamberlain.
But back to today‘s omniscient ones, that about what Mr. Rumsfeld is confused is simply this, this is a democracy, still, sometimes just barely and as such, all voices count, not just his. Had he or his president perhaps proven any of their prior claims of omniscience, about Osama bin Laden‘s plans five years ago, about Saddam Hussein‘s weapons four year, ago, about Hurricane Katrina‘s impact one year ago, we all might be able to swallow hard and except their omniscience as a bearable, even useful recipe of fact plus ego.
But to date, this government has proved little besides its own arrogance and its own hubris. Mr. Rumsfeld is also personally confused, morally or intellectually, about his standing in this matter. From Iraq to Katrina, to flu vaccine shortages to the entire fog of fear which continues to envelopes our nation, he, Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and their cronies have inadvertently or intentionally profited and benefited, both personally and politically.
And yet he can stand up in public and question the morality and the intellect of those of us who dare ask just the receipt for the emperor new clothes.
In what country was Mr. Rumsfeld raised? As a child at whose heroism did he read? On what side of the battle for freedom did he dream one day to fight? With what country has he confused the United States of America?
The confusion, we as its citizens must now address, is stark and forbidding. But variations of it have faced our forefathers when men like Nixon and McCarthy and Curtis Lemay have darkened our skies and obscured our flag.
Note, with hope in your heart, that those earlier Americans always found their way to the light and we can too. The confusion is about whether this secretary of defense and this administration are in fact now accomplishing what they claim the terrorists seek, the destruction of our freedoms, the very ones for which the same veterans Mr. Rumsfeld addressed yesterday in Salt Lake City so valiantly fought.
And about Mr. Rumsfeld‘s other main assertion of that this country faces a new type of fascism as he was correct to remind us that a government that knew everything could get everything wrong. So too was he right when he said that. Though probably not in the way he thought he meant. This country faces a new type of fascism, indeed.
Although I presumption use his sign off each night in feeble tribute, I have no utterly no claims to the words of the exemplary journalist, Edward R. Murrow. But never in the trial of 1,000 years of writing could I come close to matching how he phrased a warning to an earlier generation of us, at a time when other polarities thought they and they alone knew everything and branded those who disagreed confused or immoral.
Thus for give me for reading Murrow in full.
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty” he said in 1954, “We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not disended from fearful men, not from men who fear to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular. And so, goodnight and good luck.”
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
(videoclip: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14601135/ )
the transcript to the Wednesday show:
OLBERMANN: The man who sees absolutes where all other men see nuances and shades of meaning is either a profit or a quack. Donald H. Rumsfeld is not a profit. We end the COUNTDOWN where we began, our No. 1 story with a special comment on Mr. Rumsfeld‘s remarkable speech to the American Legion yesterday. It demands the deep analysis and the sober contemplation of every American, for it did not merely serve to impugn the morality or intelligence, indeed the loyalty of the majority of Americans who impose the transient occupants of the highest offices in the land.
Worst still, it credits those same transient occupants, our employees, with a total omniscience, a total omniscience which neither commonsense nor this administration‘s track record, at home or abroad, suggest they deserve it. Descent and disagreement with government is the life‘s blood of human freedom and not merely because it the first roadblock against the kind of tyranny the men Mr. Rumsfeld likes to think of his troops still fight this very evening in Iraq. It is also essential, because just every once in a while, it is right and the power to which it speaks is wrong.
In a small irony however, Mr. Rumsfeld speech writer was adroit in invoking the memory of the appeasement of the Nazis for in their time, there was another government faced with true peril with a growing evil, powerful, and remorseless. That government, like Mr. Rumsfeld‘s, had a monopoly on all the facts. It too had the secret information, it alone had the true picture of the threat. It too, dismissed and insulted its critics in terms like Mr. Rumsfeld‘s. Questioning their intellect and their morality.
That government was England‘s in the 1930. It knew Hitler posed in true threat to Europe, let alone to England. It knew Germany was not re-arming in violation of all treaties and accords. It knew that the hard evidence it had received, which contradicted its own policies, its own conclusions, its own omniscient, needed to be dismissed.
The English government of Neville Chamberlain (ph) already knew the truth. Most relevant of all, it knew that its staunchest critics need to be marginalized and isolated, in fact it portrayed the foremost of them as a blood-thirsty warmonger who was, if not truly senile, at best morally or intellectually confused. That critics name was Winston Churchill.
Sadly we have no Winston Churchill‘s evidence among this evening, we have only Donald Rumsfeld‘s demonizing disagreement, the way Neville Chamberlain demonized Winston Churchill. History and 163 million pounds of (INAUDIBLE) bombs over England have taught us that all Mr. Chamberlain had was his certainty and his own confusion, a confusion that suggested that the office cannot only make the man, but that the office can make the facts.
Thus did Mr. Rums make an apt historical analogy accepting the fact he has the battery plugged in backwards. His government absolute and exclusive in his knowledge is not the version of please one that stood up to the Nazis it is the modern version of the government of Neville Chamberlain.
But back to today‘s omniscient ones, that about what Mr. Rumsfeld is confused is simply this, this is a democracy, still, sometimes just barely and as such, all voices count, not just his. Had he or his president perhaps proven any of their prior claims of omniscience, about Osama bin Laden‘s plans five years ago, about Saddam Hussein‘s weapons four year, ago, about Hurricane Katrina‘s impact one year ago, we all might be able to swallow hard and except their omniscience as a bearable, even useful recipe of fact plus ego.
But to date, this government has proved little besides its own arrogance and its own hubris. Mr. Rumsfeld is also personally confused, morally or intellectually, about his standing in this matter. From Iraq to Katrina, to flu vaccine shortages to the entire fog of fear which continues to envelopes our nation, he, Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and their cronies have inadvertently or intentionally profited and benefited, both personally and politically.
And yet he can stand up in public and question the morality and the intellect of those of us who dare ask just the receipt for the emperor new clothes.
In what country was Mr. Rumsfeld raised? As a child at whose heroism did he read? On what side of the battle for freedom did he dream one day to fight? With what country has he confused the United States of America?
The confusion, we as its citizens must now address, is stark and forbidding. But variations of it have faced our forefathers when men like Nixon and McCarthy and Curtis Lemay have darkened our skies and obscured our flag.
Note, with hope in your heart, that those earlier Americans always found their way to the light and we can too. The confusion is about whether this secretary of defense and this administration are in fact now accomplishing what they claim the terrorists seek, the destruction of our freedoms, the very ones for which the same veterans Mr. Rumsfeld addressed yesterday in Salt Lake City so valiantly fought.
And about Mr. Rumsfeld‘s other main assertion of that this country faces a new type of fascism as he was correct to remind us that a government that knew everything could get everything wrong. So too was he right when he said that. Though probably not in the way he thought he meant. This country faces a new type of fascism, indeed.
Although I presumption use his sign off each night in feeble tribute, I have no utterly no claims to the words of the exemplary journalist, Edward R. Murrow. But never in the trial of 1,000 years of writing could I come close to matching how he phrased a warning to an earlier generation of us, at a time when other polarities thought they and they alone knew everything and branded those who disagreed confused or immoral.
Thus for give me for reading Murrow in full.
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty” he said in 1954, “We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not disended from fearful men, not from men who fear to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular. And so, goodnight and good luck.”
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
END
Re: There are evil people, and its NOT Rummy & GWB
(this inspiratio was just to much fun to pass up - hope you enjoy it) 
chickenhawks are at least supposed to be manly when it comes to trees that get in their way - no?
talk the talk - walk the walk.joe wrote: Bottom line Marco, if you really love the Iraq situation go over there and do something useful instead of being just another Dick (Cheny, five deferment Chicken Hawk).
chickenhawks are at least supposed to be manly when it comes to trees that get in their way - no?
Marco Zee wrote: As a HUGE SUPPORTER of Bush(aka Shrub) and (his passion for clearing brush), I am grateful that (this) Patriot (has) the insight to recognize the evil forces that are threatening our great (launch sites of the)country , and the courage to aggressively battle these forces.
So Bush et al will continue to fight the
GWOT ( GLOBAL WAR ON TREES ) on two fronts, (the launches and the lz's).
MarkemX,...I would suggest that you... do your patriotic duty by helping and supporting GWB in the GWOT
( GLOBAL WAR ON TREES ),
Get some airtime and you'll feel better. (not participating in any form of GWOT) Works for me.
Marco
okay, here's my best idea.
the disadministration spoke again today...
they really have me fearful. not just about iraq and the gwot and their generalized incompetence due to arrogance as granted directly from god...
well yeah, actually it's because of all of that.
even if 'they' aren't about what i think they're about - even if they are what marco dude so sincerely believes them to be - in two years time, this country is going to be so torn up and turned on each other - that's actually my biggest fear. (and me shutting My mouth really isn't going to help anything)
here's my compromise. (you know, if reality could be suspended an stuff like that)
if the republican party would agree to turn these guys out (bush et al), as of say november (and thereby stop all the 'campaigning' that is starting to roll out) - 'we', the democrats (did i mention? that thing about reality being suspended?), would accept McCain as the replacement and give him the whole of the next six years.
look, i had never been a mccain guy before all this 'stuff' started happening. some of his social policies run hard against my views. but if we have gw for two more years and then he is thrown over for a democrat...this country itself will then continue to tear at its self with its own 'sectarin' 'violence'.
yeah, i know marco - your prescription is that if 'me and mine' would simply fall in behind gw and quite 'tearing him down', then all those things which i say worry me would evaporate and never occur. we would all be as one. but i could say the same thing - if 'you' all came and joined me, we also, then, would all be on the same side.
mccain's a republican. somehow i trust his heart more than anyone i see out there. the military trusts him. a lot of repubs trust him.
you quietly take gw away - now, before things get any worse. we give you repubs 'face' - a repub in office for six years. we'll All back Him and hope he can, along the way (cause Nobody, right now ,knows The way) figure out a way through this.
yeah, okay, i guess i'd have to offer to join you in that dunking booth!
the disadministration spoke again today...
they really have me fearful. not just about iraq and the gwot and their generalized incompetence due to arrogance as granted directly from god...
well yeah, actually it's because of all of that.
even if 'they' aren't about what i think they're about - even if they are what marco dude so sincerely believes them to be - in two years time, this country is going to be so torn up and turned on each other - that's actually my biggest fear. (and me shutting My mouth really isn't going to help anything)
here's my compromise. (you know, if reality could be suspended an stuff like that)
if the republican party would agree to turn these guys out (bush et al), as of say november (and thereby stop all the 'campaigning' that is starting to roll out) - 'we', the democrats (did i mention? that thing about reality being suspended?), would accept McCain as the replacement and give him the whole of the next six years.
look, i had never been a mccain guy before all this 'stuff' started happening. some of his social policies run hard against my views. but if we have gw for two more years and then he is thrown over for a democrat...this country itself will then continue to tear at its self with its own 'sectarin' 'violence'.
yeah, i know marco - your prescription is that if 'me and mine' would simply fall in behind gw and quite 'tearing him down', then all those things which i say worry me would evaporate and never occur. we would all be as one. but i could say the same thing - if 'you' all came and joined me, we also, then, would all be on the same side.
mccain's a republican. somehow i trust his heart more than anyone i see out there. the military trusts him. a lot of repubs trust him.
you quietly take gw away - now, before things get any worse. we give you repubs 'face' - a repub in office for six years. we'll All back Him and hope he can, along the way (cause Nobody, right now ,knows The way) figure out a way through this.
yeah, okay, i guess i'd have to offer to join you in that dunking booth!
See also James Fallows article in the September issue of "The Atlantic". He gives Bush/Rumsfeld credit for taking a big chunk out of AQ's capability - Osama is reduced to the role of Marx, not Lenin. But Bin Laden and Zawahiri knew that they could never bring the U.S. down through their own efforts - they needed us to do the real damage through our classic blundering over-reaction: Iraq! Our best strategy at this point is to declare the GWOT a victory - Osama is in his box - and stop shooting ourselves in both feet... - Hugh
you know...this could actually work.
gw and the repubs have full control of all three branches of government.
they don't seem to mind acting imperiously.
bush et al offer to decamp if osama turns himself in!
gw declares marshall law, or some other minor adjustment to their current methods, and appoints mccain for six years.
it's a win/win/win !
bush and rummy and friends go out as self sacrificing heroes.
the country gets a second chance.
hillary is stymied.
it'll have to happen fast though because there's been something about pakistan more or less offering osama assylum.
hmmm? what's the inducement for osama? yeah, you're right.
let's see...how about gw in a dunking booth and osama gets the ffirst three balls for free!?
or how about one of them medals bush gives out to his boys when they screw up so badly. maybe osama won't know it's worthless!
sure, it probaly needs a little tweaking. but hey, these guys are used to working without a detailed plan.
maybe we could get the actor james earl jones to sneak into a white house closet and do his 'god' voice as gw walks by. he does a really Good god voice!
there, that wasn't hard.
now on to cold fusion and some tweaking on the 'way back machine'
(i just bought the rights from bullwinkle, had to outbid the scientologists)
gw and the repubs have full control of all three branches of government.
they don't seem to mind acting imperiously.
bush et al offer to decamp if osama turns himself in!
gw declares marshall law, or some other minor adjustment to their current methods, and appoints mccain for six years.
it's a win/win/win !
bush and rummy and friends go out as self sacrificing heroes.
the country gets a second chance.
hillary is stymied.
it'll have to happen fast though because there's been something about pakistan more or less offering osama assylum.
hmmm? what's the inducement for osama? yeah, you're right.
let's see...how about gw in a dunking booth and osama gets the ffirst three balls for free!?
or how about one of them medals bush gives out to his boys when they screw up so badly. maybe osama won't know it's worthless!
sure, it probaly needs a little tweaking. but hey, these guys are used to working without a detailed plan.
maybe we could get the actor james earl jones to sneak into a white house closet and do his 'god' voice as gw walks by. he does a really Good god voice!
there, that wasn't hard.
now on to cold fusion and some tweaking on the 'way back machine'
(i just bought the rights from bullwinkle, had to outbid the scientologists)
Gary,
Your idea is not all that far-fetched. If we had a parliamentary form of government, it would be possible to replace GWB with a another member of his party without a new general election. I know that this has been done in Israel in the past, usually after having a Vote of No Confidence on the Prime Minister.
I am certain that the Dems, especially Hillary, would not conceed another 6 years to the GOP's just to replace GWB now.
Interesting thought, but pie in the sky stuff.
Marco
Your idea is not all that far-fetched. If we had a parliamentary form of government, it would be possible to replace GWB with a another member of his party without a new general election. I know that this has been done in Israel in the past, usually after having a Vote of No Confidence on the Prime Minister.
I am certain that the Dems, especially Hillary, would not conceed another 6 years to the GOP's just to replace GWB now.
Interesting thought, but pie in the sky stuff.
Marco
Olberman PROVES Rummy's Point
Olberman's rant PROVES that he, like the liberal left, has not learned the lessons of history, as Rummy was contending.
Chamberlain is not famous for thinking he was right and his political opposition was wrong...heck...every politician thinks that (as do most of the contributors on this list).
What distinguishes Chamberlain in historical records as the greatest appeasor of the 20th century, and possibly of all time, is that he believed that if he kept appeasing Hitler, then Hitler would be satisfied from his ill-gotten gains, and then behave and become content. Of course, Hitler was never satisfied or contented, and desired more and more power and territory, and did not "behave", which eventually led to WW2.
At least Chamberlain, to his credit, later conceded that his appeasement was a big mistake, and apologized for it.
Rummy's point was that current day leftists/pacifists/isolationists are trying to appease the current day Fascists (IslamoFascists) much like Chamberlain did with Hitler. And to do so would be repeating the same monumental mistake as Chamberlain. And of course the "bad guys" are the Islamofascists from whatever hole they crawl out of.
A much more accurate historical comparison would be that President Bush is much more like Churchill, who rallied the nation and confronted the fascists, than like Chamberlain, who appeased them endlessly.
History lesson over. There will be a quiz on Friday. Please forward to Olberman since he obviously has never studied history.
Chamberlain is not famous for thinking he was right and his political opposition was wrong...heck...every politician thinks that (as do most of the contributors on this list).
What distinguishes Chamberlain in historical records as the greatest appeasor of the 20th century, and possibly of all time, is that he believed that if he kept appeasing Hitler, then Hitler would be satisfied from his ill-gotten gains, and then behave and become content. Of course, Hitler was never satisfied or contented, and desired more and more power and territory, and did not "behave", which eventually led to WW2.
At least Chamberlain, to his credit, later conceded that his appeasement was a big mistake, and apologized for it.
Rummy's point was that current day leftists/pacifists/isolationists are trying to appease the current day Fascists (IslamoFascists) much like Chamberlain did with Hitler. And to do so would be repeating the same monumental mistake as Chamberlain. And of course the "bad guys" are the Islamofascists from whatever hole they crawl out of.
A much more accurate historical comparison would be that President Bush is much more like Churchill, who rallied the nation and confronted the fascists, than like Chamberlain, who appeased them endlessly.
History lesson over. There will be a quiz on Friday. Please forward to Olberman since he obviously has never studied history.
oh m' gawd!Marco Zee wrote:Gary,
Your idea is not all that far-fetched. If we had a parliamentary form of government, it would be possible to replace GWB with a another member of his party without a new general election. I know that this has been done in Israel in the past, usually after having a Vote of No Confidence on the Prime Minister.
I am certain that the Dems, especially Hillary, would not conceed another 6 years to the GOP's just to replace GWB now.
Interesting thought, but pie in the sky stuff.
Marco
after all we've been through together!
...have we reached some point of mutual something or other?!
(if i'm wrong, don't tell me for a few days - i'm feeling kinda delicate
)(i'm not even going to try and work you over on possible implications of your post - i just don't have that cheap shot in me right now - give me time
).besides, it ain't about hillary an' george- it's about the rest of us.
i'm feeling so exhilarated!
does this validate us?
-legitimate the idea that it's better to keep yelling at each other?
rather than staying politely and quietly polarized and hateful?
nah, i doubt it.
but we were doing pie in the sky stuff,
so i thought i'd work it a bit.
cheers
Re: Olberman PROVES Rummy's Point
damn!Marco Zee wrote: Rummy's point was that current day leftists/pacifists/isolationists are trying to appease the current day Fascists (IslamoFascists) much like Chamberlain did with Hitler...
A much more accurate historical comparison would be that President Bush is much more like Churchill, who rallied the nation and confronted the fascists, than like Chamberlain, who appeased them endlessly.
i was so taken aback that i didn't sense the set up - didn't even see this next post!
but, hell, no matter.
you're just back to your regular tricks of knocking down a staw man of your own design.
"current day leftists/pacifists/isolationists" -? - haven't seen any of those types around. 'guess it's one of them things intended for the crazy-ass right wing base. tell them i said howdy when you see them on sunday.
So here I am sitting in front of the computer at the public library in Harpers Ferry checking out my stocks. Raytheon (yup, if the Republicans are going to make a killing off the war....) was down quite a bit (but still way above where I bought it), so I looked to see what message there was. Great reason for having a stock drop, heh Marco?
Christy
Great reason for having a stock drop, heh Marco?Christy