Get it through your head: Bin Laden and Zawahiri are not the only
objects of the GWOT - what we have to overcome is a global desire to
knock us off our pedestal. We cannot afford to be the overweening
out-of-control superpower that detains, tortures, bombs, monitors
anyone it wants whenever and wherever it wants, unconstrained by any
laws. My own patriotism does not extend to such a tyrannical
government. - Hugh
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Yeah, Christy! When you visit a prison, it's hard to tell the
difference between the guards and the inmates. I would be more
willing to accord this administration additional powers if they had
shown themselves to be prudent - but they have not. There is a
consistent pattern of over-reaching... - Hugh
difference between the guards and the inmates. I would be more
willing to accord this administration additional powers if they had
shown themselves to be prudent - but they have not. There is a
consistent pattern of over-reaching... - Hugh
Hugh stated: <<Get it through your head: Bin Laden and Zawahiri are not the only objects of the GWOT>>
Exactly !!! All right Hugh !!! Don't forget about those Canadian eskimos !!!
Just as Saddam could not muzzle 25 million Iraqi's singlehandedly, nor can UBL or Al-Zaw*** perform their acts of violence alone. Saddam has been captured, but his henchmen are still at work. If Saddam had been tortured after his capture, he would have cracked, and perhaps we could have uncovered and captured the Baathist resistance leaders and avoided much of the violence and bloodshed we have seen in Iraq since his capture, ....but no...., we are too civilized, and we had to save him for trial, and so innocents are being killed by the hundreds because we are civilized and "better than the enemy". I hope you lib bed-wetters are happy.
We should have fed Saddam into the wood chipper, like he did to his political enemies.
If and when we capture UBL, we will need to extract as much info as possible from him so as to round up, capture, and shut down as many terrorist cells and networks as possible. Like Hugh says, there are others out there wishing to do us harm. And so we should do everything, including torture, to maximize useful intel from these terrorists.
Marco
PS: Christy, I am thinking VERY clearly and I am not angry. After thorough consideration, I come down on the side of torture, in extremis conditions. And when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, the terrorists should know that the USA will do EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, in its power to insure that the terrorists are going to lose in this life and death conflict.
Exactly !!! All right Hugh !!! Don't forget about those Canadian eskimos !!!
Just as Saddam could not muzzle 25 million Iraqi's singlehandedly, nor can UBL or Al-Zaw*** perform their acts of violence alone. Saddam has been captured, but his henchmen are still at work. If Saddam had been tortured after his capture, he would have cracked, and perhaps we could have uncovered and captured the Baathist resistance leaders and avoided much of the violence and bloodshed we have seen in Iraq since his capture, ....but no...., we are too civilized, and we had to save him for trial, and so innocents are being killed by the hundreds because we are civilized and "better than the enemy". I hope you lib bed-wetters are happy.
We should have fed Saddam into the wood chipper, like he did to his political enemies. If and when we capture UBL, we will need to extract as much info as possible from him so as to round up, capture, and shut down as many terrorist cells and networks as possible. Like Hugh says, there are others out there wishing to do us harm. And so we should do everything, including torture, to maximize useful intel from these terrorists.
Marco
PS: Christy, I am thinking VERY clearly and I am not angry. After thorough consideration, I come down on the side of torture, in extremis conditions. And when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, the terrorists should know that the USA will do EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, in its power to insure that the terrorists are going to lose in this life and death conflict.
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Torture did work very well for Sadam. He always got 100% of the vote.
People were afraid to voice their opinions, so he never heard any dissent.
I wouldn't be surprised if he wire-tapped peoples phones, so that he could
take personal care of any dissenters.
It is comforting to know that that kind of stuff doesn't happen here.
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Schad [mailto:jgs1942@shentel.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:52 PM
To: ot_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Well Marco, at least we now know how you think Americans should treat people
who we consider our enemy. You would do exactly what Sadam Hussan did to
people he called his enemy or terrorist. Guess you and Sadam have a lot of
common values. We know how productive his tactics were. Maybe we should
adopt all his methods and just exterminate everyone who opposes our world
view. It is not a really big step from torture to extermination and your
indorsement of torture seems so easy for you. Why is that?
Joe
Let's say that we capture Bin Laden, or Al-Zawahiri (sp) alive......should
we torture them to get vital info and save lives?
Certainly these two know dozens, perhaps even hundreds or thousands of
terrorists and have "first hand" knowledge of innumerable terrorist actions
plans.
So, assuming they are uncooperative and not forthcoming, should we torture
them to obtain info that would certainly save innocent lives? Or should we
give them three squares a day and a nice warm cell and hope that they
"change their stripes" and realize what great people the Americans really
are, and renounce their terrorist ways?
I would emphatically state "YES". (to torturing these two).
Marco
People were afraid to voice their opinions, so he never heard any dissent.
I wouldn't be surprised if he wire-tapped peoples phones, so that he could
take personal care of any dissenters.
It is comforting to know that that kind of stuff doesn't happen here.
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Schad [mailto:jgs1942@shentel.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:52 PM
To: ot_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Well Marco, at least we now know how you think Americans should treat people
who we consider our enemy. You would do exactly what Sadam Hussan did to
people he called his enemy or terrorist. Guess you and Sadam have a lot of
common values. We know how productive his tactics were. Maybe we should
adopt all his methods and just exterminate everyone who opposes our world
view. It is not a really big step from torture to extermination and your
indorsement of torture seems so easy for you. Why is that?
Joe
Let's say that we capture Bin Laden, or Al-Zawahiri (sp) alive......should
we torture them to get vital info and save lives?
Certainly these two know dozens, perhaps even hundreds or thousands of
terrorists and have "first hand" knowledge of innumerable terrorist actions
plans.
So, assuming they are uncooperative and not forthcoming, should we torture
them to obtain info that would certainly save innocent lives? Or should we
give them three squares a day and a nice warm cell and hope that they
"change their stripes" and realize what great people the Americans really
are, and renounce their terrorist ways?
I would emphatically state "YES". (to torturing these two).
Marco
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
What could we possibly have learned from torturing Sadam? He was hiding in
a hole. The only possible information we could have gotten was names. We
knew those. He couldn't tell us where to find people because they move.
There was no HQ to find. We have found weapon caches on our own. What
could we have possibly learned that we couldn't learn from spys. And if the
world saw us torture Sadam, do you think we would not immediately have a
messier situation than we already do?
Let us switch the situation around. Let us say that the US was invaded.
Would you cooperate with the evil invaders who torture God-loving-Americans?
No, you would fight to the death. You would not stop until the invaders
were off sacred soil. Now on the otherhand, if they invaded and all of the
gangs stopped committing violence, and stopped all the crimes, and made the
place nicer and friendlier, and bettered your life, then would you still see
them as evil?
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Zee [mailto:marcoz757@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:54 AM
To: ot_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Hugh stated:
Exactly !!! All right Hugh !!! Don't forget about those Canadian eskimos
!!!
[Laughing]
Just as Saddam could not muzzle 25 million Iraqi's singlehandedly, nor can
UBL or Al-Zaw*** perform their acts of violence alone. Saddam has been
captured, but his henchmen are still at work. If Saddam had been tortured
after his capture, he would have cracked, and perhaps we could have
uncovered and captured the Baathist resistance leaders and avoided much of
the violence and bloodshed we have seen in Iraq since his capture, ....but
no...., we are too civilized, and we had to save him for trial, and so
innocents are being killed by the hundreds because we are civilized and
"better than the enemy". I hope you lib bed-wetters are happy. [Wink] We
should have fed Saddam into the wood chipper, like he did to his political
enemies.
If and when we capture UBL, we will need to extract as much info as possible
from him so as to round up, capture, and shut down as many terrorist cells
and networks as possible. Like Hugh says, there are others out there
wishing to do us harm. And so we should do everything, including torture,
to maximize useful intel from these terrorists.
Marco
PS: Christy, I am thinking VERY clearly and I am not angry. After thorough
consideration, I come down on the side of torture, in extremis conditions.
And when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, the terrorists should
know that the USA will do EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, in its power
to insure that the terrorists are going to lose in this life and death
conflict.
a hole. The only possible information we could have gotten was names. We
knew those. He couldn't tell us where to find people because they move.
There was no HQ to find. We have found weapon caches on our own. What
could we have possibly learned that we couldn't learn from spys. And if the
world saw us torture Sadam, do you think we would not immediately have a
messier situation than we already do?
Let us switch the situation around. Let us say that the US was invaded.
Would you cooperate with the evil invaders who torture God-loving-Americans?
No, you would fight to the death. You would not stop until the invaders
were off sacred soil. Now on the otherhand, if they invaded and all of the
gangs stopped committing violence, and stopped all the crimes, and made the
place nicer and friendlier, and bettered your life, then would you still see
them as evil?
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Zee [mailto:marcoz757@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:54 AM
To: ot_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Hugh stated:
Exactly !!! All right Hugh !!! Don't forget about those Canadian eskimos
!!!
[Laughing]
Just as Saddam could not muzzle 25 million Iraqi's singlehandedly, nor can
UBL or Al-Zaw*** perform their acts of violence alone. Saddam has been
captured, but his henchmen are still at work. If Saddam had been tortured
after his capture, he would have cracked, and perhaps we could have
uncovered and captured the Baathist resistance leaders and avoided much of
the violence and bloodshed we have seen in Iraq since his capture, ....but
no...., we are too civilized, and we had to save him for trial, and so
innocents are being killed by the hundreds because we are civilized and
"better than the enemy". I hope you lib bed-wetters are happy. [Wink] We
should have fed Saddam into the wood chipper, like he did to his political
enemies.
If and when we capture UBL, we will need to extract as much info as possible
from him so as to round up, capture, and shut down as many terrorist cells
and networks as possible. Like Hugh says, there are others out there
wishing to do us harm. And so we should do everything, including torture,
to maximize useful intel from these terrorists.
Marco
PS: Christy, I am thinking VERY clearly and I am not angry. After thorough
consideration, I come down on the side of torture, in extremis conditions.
And when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, the terrorists should
know that the USA will do EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, in its power
to insure that the terrorists are going to lose in this life and death
conflict.
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Fact is, Saddam couldn't get reliable information because everyone
was so afraid of him and his torture. If he had understood the
importance of 9/11, he would never have ended up in a cage in that
courtroom instead of enjoying his 25 palaces. When the pressure to
let the inspectors back in got tough, Saddam agreed to do so, but
tried to "get a nibble" - get some bargaining point for his
acquiescence. Tariq Aziz (former Iraqi UN ambassador and foreign
minister) said this was a huge mistake - Saddam balked when he should
have caved and got a much more stringent UN resolution on inspections
than the one before - and eventually, an invasion. (Source: Report
of the Iraq Survey Group - available at Government Printing Office -
but pricey at $200.) See, these guys ARE talking, and you wouldn't
get such nuance through torture. - Hugh
was so afraid of him and his torture. If he had understood the
importance of 9/11, he would never have ended up in a cage in that
courtroom instead of enjoying his 25 palaces. When the pressure to
let the inspectors back in got tough, Saddam agreed to do so, but
tried to "get a nibble" - get some bargaining point for his
acquiescence. Tariq Aziz (former Iraqi UN ambassador and foreign
minister) said this was a huge mistake - Saddam balked when he should
have caved and got a much more stringent UN resolution on inspections
than the one before - and eventually, an invasion. (Source: Report
of the Iraq Survey Group - available at Government Printing Office -
but pricey at $200.) See, these guys ARE talking, and you wouldn't
get such nuance through torture. - Hugh
Hugh stated: <<If he had understood the importance of 9/11, he would never have ended up in a cage in that courtroom instead of enjoying his 25 palaces.>>
Glad to see someone else stating the obvious: that it is uniquely Saddam's fault that Iraq got invaded...not Bush's or the UN's. And I think he had 50 palaces.
He miscalculated badly, and got deposed. It is very regrettable that we had to lose more than 2000 servicemen in the process, but that is the price of deposing dictators and their henchmen.
Mike,
Who really knows what valuable and life saving info might have been obtained from Saddam....he was in charge for 35 years....I'm sure he had lots of contacts and knowledge of Syrian collaborators etc that might have been helpful in rounding up the Baathists and the foreign terrorists. He may even know where the WMD's are hidden. Who knows what potentially could have been obtained? My take is that this brutal thug, with the shoe now on the other foot, would have given up a huge amount of useful info...but that's just my opinion. But, I see no reason not to at least try to obtain this info. We don't have to torture him in public, and he's gonna claim that we tortured him anyways, so might as well have done it, and reaped the benefits from it. Even if it saved 10, 20, or 100 soldiers from dying, it would have been worth it.
Marco
Glad to see someone else stating the obvious: that it is uniquely Saddam's fault that Iraq got invaded...not Bush's or the UN's. And I think he had 50 palaces.
He miscalculated badly, and got deposed. It is very regrettable that we had to lose more than 2000 servicemen in the process, but that is the price of deposing dictators and their henchmen.
Mike,
Who really knows what valuable and life saving info might have been obtained from Saddam....he was in charge for 35 years....I'm sure he had lots of contacts and knowledge of Syrian collaborators etc that might have been helpful in rounding up the Baathists and the foreign terrorists. He may even know where the WMD's are hidden. Who knows what potentially could have been obtained? My take is that this brutal thug, with the shoe now on the other foot, would have given up a huge amount of useful info...but that's just my opinion. But, I see no reason not to at least try to obtain this info. We don't have to torture him in public, and he's gonna claim that we tortured him anyways, so might as well have done it, and reaped the benefits from it. Even if it saved 10, 20, or 100 soldiers from dying, it would have been worth it.
Marco
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Yes, and it is uniquely Bush and company's fault that the invasion took place with severely compromised international support, the subsequent occupation (as Bush has finally admitted) was screwed up from day one and the majority of the 2000 have died after the full-scale combat phase.?
?
One other factual note:? although they started out together and still shared the party?name Ba'ath ("revival"), the Iraqi and?Syrian?parties have hated eachother's guts for most of their history.
?
- Hugh?
Marco Zee <marcoz757@aol.com> wrote:
?
One other factual note:? although they started out together and still shared the party?name Ba'ath ("revival"), the Iraqi and?Syrian?parties have hated eachother's guts for most of their history.
?
- Hugh?
Marco Zee <marcoz757@aol.com> wrote:
Hugh stated:
Glad to see someone else stating the obvious: that it is uniquely Saddam's fault that Iraq got invaded...not Bush's or the UN's. And I think he had 50 palaces.
He miscalculated badly, and got deposed. It is very regrettable that we had to lose more than 2000 servicemen in the process, but that is the price of deposing dictators and their henchmen.
Mike,
Who really knows what valuable and life saving info might have been obtained from Saddam....he was in charge for 35 years....I'm sure he had lots of contacts and knowledge of Syrian collaborators etc that might have been helpful in rounding up the Baathists and the foreign terrorists. He may even know where the WMD's are hidden. Who knows what potentially could have been obtained? My take is that this brutal thug, with the shoe now on the other foot, would have given up a huge amount of useful info...but that's just my opinion. But, I see no reason not to at least try to obtain this info. We don't have to torture him in public, and he's gonna claim that we tortured him anyways, so might as well have done it, and reaped the benefits from it. Even if it saved 10, 20, or 100 soldiers from dying, it would have been worth it.
Marco
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Sad to see that your reply to me was reduced to a PS, but not surprised, since I'm only a girl.? I still agree with the others that if you stoop to their level, you are at their level.
Christy
Marco Zee <marcoz757@aol.com> wrote:
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Christy
Marco Zee <marcoz757@aol.com> wrote:
Hugh stated:
Exactly !!! All right Hugh !!! Don't forget about those Canadian eskimos !!!
[Laughing]
Just as Saddam could not muzzle 25 million Iraqi's singlehandedly, nor can UBL or Al-Zaw*** perform their acts of violence alone. Saddam has been captured, but his henchmen are still at work. If Saddam had been tortured after his capture, he would have cracked, and perhaps we could have uncovered and captured the Baathist resistance leaders and avoided much of the violence and bloodshed we have seen in Iraq since his capture, ....but no...., we are too civilized, and we had to save him for trial, and so innocents are being killed by the hundreds because we are civilized and "better than the enemy". I hope you lib bed-wetters are happy. [Wink] We should have fed Saddam into the wood chipper, like he did to his political enemies.
If and when we capture UBL, we will need to extract as much info as possible from him so as to round up, capture, and shut down as many terrorist cells and networks as possible. Like Hugh says, there are others out there wishing to do us harm. And so we should do everything, including torture, to maximize useful intel from these terrorists.
Marco
PS: Christy, I am thinking VERY clearly and I am not angry. After thorough consideration, I come down on the side of torture, in extremis conditions. And when it comes to dealing with these terrorists, the terrorists should know that the USA will do EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, in its power to insure that the terrorists are going to lose in this life and death conflict.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
<<Sad to see that your reply to me was reduced to a PS, but not surprised, since I'm only a girl. >>
Hey Christy, I was very angry and not thinking clearly when I wrote that post, and I decided to intentionally dis you by responding to you with that PS remark......but hey...what do you expect from me.....I'm just a guy !!!???
I hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas season, including a fair to moderate amount of airtime.
Marco
PS: I am so jealous of those southern-migrating pilots who get to spend time down in FL and other places to fly.
Hey Christy, I was very angry and not thinking clearly when I wrote that post, and I decided to intentionally dis you by responding to you with that PS remark......but hey...what do you expect from me.....I'm just a guy !!!???
I hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas season, including a fair to moderate amount of airtime.
Marco
PS: I am so jealous of those southern-migrating pilots who get to spend time down in FL and other places to fly.
a participant wrote: ...At least our soldiers are fighting and sacrificing for something greater than themselves...
a participant wrote:...The soldiers' sacrifices are indeed wasted if the Commander-in-
Chief's strategy is incorrect and will not result in "victory"...
"America's a good enough country to die for even when America's wrong." from "Beach Music" by Pat Conroy
a calming thought, perhaps
Good news keeps coming
More excellent news:
Unemployment down to 4.9%
Dow Jones over 11,000.
Economy growing at 3-4%.
Productivity up again.
Inflation in check.
Home ownership at all time highs.
Alito is going to demolish the Senate Dems and be confirmed.
Redskins advancing in the playoffs.
2006 should be a very good year.
Marco
Unemployment down to 4.9%
Dow Jones over 11,000.
Economy growing at 3-4%.
Productivity up again.
Inflation in check.
Home ownership at all time highs.
Alito is going to demolish the Senate Dems and be confirmed.
Redskins advancing in the playoffs.
2006 should be a very good year.
Marco
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Ding-dong the witch is dead - Delay is so over! I have one word for
you: Abramov. Personal income is down for the fifth year in a row.
The number of people without health insurance is up by 50% (from 12%
to 18%) since 1991. - Hugh
you: Abramov. Personal income is down for the fifth year in a row.
The number of people without health insurance is up by 50% (from 12%
to 18%) since 1991. - Hugh
Even more excellent news:
Unemployment is down to 4.7%.....I cannot recall it ever being this low !!!
Closing in on 5 million new jobs in the past 2.5 years.
DOW within 2% of 11,000 ( up from 7,700) .
Projected growth rate for 2006 is 3-4% again.
Alito demolished and embarassed the Dems mercilessly in the SCOTUS nomination hearings.....just wonderful to behold. The big question is : WHO WILL RESIGN NEXT? Stevens....Ginsburg.......Breyer......Souter??????? With any luck, the Prez will have two, or possibly three MORE SC appointments. It couldn't get any better than that.
Delay is down, but not out....not unlike Trent Lott. And the Repub bench is deep,...Boehner will do a great job as well.
And some good news for Marc....attacks in Iraq for Jan were about half the number from October....perhaps things are settling down now that the elections have been SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED. Could it be that we have "turned the corner" there?..... We'll see...keeping my fingers crossed.
Enjoy all this global warming we've been having lately.
Marco
PS: Hugh, sorry to hear about your cycle accident and the emotional ties to the trike.
Unemployment is down to 4.7%.....I cannot recall it ever being this low !!!
Closing in on 5 million new jobs in the past 2.5 years.
DOW within 2% of 11,000 ( up from 7,700) .
Projected growth rate for 2006 is 3-4% again.
Alito demolished and embarassed the Dems mercilessly in the SCOTUS nomination hearings.....just wonderful to behold. The big question is : WHO WILL RESIGN NEXT? Stevens....Ginsburg.......Breyer......Souter??????? With any luck, the Prez will have two, or possibly three MORE SC appointments. It couldn't get any better than that.
Delay is down, but not out....not unlike Trent Lott. And the Repub bench is deep,...Boehner will do a great job as well.
And some good news for Marc....attacks in Iraq for Jan were about half the number from October....perhaps things are settling down now that the elections have been SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED. Could it be that we have "turned the corner" there?..... We'll see...keeping my fingers crossed.
Enjoy all this global warming we've been having lately.
Marco
PS: Hugh, sorry to hear about your cycle accident and the emotional ties to the trike.
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Marco,
Are you prescribing controlled substances for yourself? Totally out
of touch with reality... or whistling past the graveyard. - Hugh
Are you prescribing controlled substances for yourself? Totally out
of touch with reality... or whistling past the graveyard. - Hugh
-
Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
You forgot to mention the administration is ramping up plans for the invasion of Iran. What do you think about that?Marco Zee wrote:Even more excellent news:
Unemployment is down to 4.7%.....I cannot recall it ever being this low !!!
Closing in on 5 million new jobs in the past 2.5 years.
DOW within 2% of 11,000 ( up from 7,700) .
Projected growth rate for 2006 is 3-4% again.
Alito demolished and embarassed the Dems mercilessly in the SCOTUS nomination hearings.....just wonderful to behold. The big question is : WHO WILL RESIGN NEXT? Stevens....Ginsburg.......Breyer......Souter??????? With any luck, the Prez will have two, or possibly three MORE SC appointments. It couldn't get any better than that.
Delay is down, but not out....not unlike Trent Lott. And the Repub bench is deep,...Boehner will do a great job as well.
And some good news for Marc....attacks in Iraq for Jan were about half the number from October....perhaps things are settling down now that the elections have been SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED. Could it be that we have "turned the corner" there?..... We'll see...keeping my fingers crossed.
Enjoy all this global warming we've been having lately.
Marco
PS: Hugh, sorry to hear about your cycle accident and the emotional ties to the trike.
marcoGahndi
Great Googly-moo!
Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Marco, how quicky you forget! Unemployment rates were below 4% in 2000.
If you look at this Bureau of Labor Statistics graph
(http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyO ... est_number
s&series_id=LNS14000000) you will see that from 1996 (5.5%), it fell
steadily to below 4% in 2000. Then in 2001 (January, not September (didn't
someone just get elected then?)) it started shooting dramatically upward
back to 5.5% before 9/11. 4 years worth of progress gone in one year. Then
peaking over 6% in 2003.
If you can't remember back 6 years, I guess for you life really did begin
with GW! Don't spout wrong facts!
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Zee [mailto:marcoz757@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:34 PM
To: ot_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Even more excellent news:
Unemployment is down to 4.7%.....I cannot recall it ever being this low !!!
Closing in on 5 million new jobs in the past 2.5 years.
DOW within 2% of 11,000 ( up from 7,700) .
Projected growth rate for 2006 is 3-4% again.
If you look at this Bureau of Labor Statistics graph
(http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyO ... est_number
s&series_id=LNS14000000) you will see that from 1996 (5.5%), it fell
steadily to below 4% in 2000. Then in 2001 (January, not September (didn't
someone just get elected then?)) it started shooting dramatically upward
back to 5.5% before 9/11. 4 years worth of progress gone in one year. Then
peaking over 6% in 2003.
If you can't remember back 6 years, I guess for you life really did begin
with GW! Don't spout wrong facts!
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Zee [mailto:marcoz757@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:34 PM
To: ot_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Enough pessimism -- how about the good news
Even more excellent news:
Unemployment is down to 4.7%.....I cannot recall it ever being this low !!!
Closing in on 5 million new jobs in the past 2.5 years.
DOW within 2% of 11,000 ( up from 7,700) .
Projected growth rate for 2006 is 3-4% again.
Mike,
I stand corrected.....according to that chart, unemployment was down as low as 3.8 in April 2000, and climbed to 4.2 % by Jan 2001, as the Clinton/Gore recession began kicking in. Clinton's last budget was for 2001. Unemployment then peaked in 2003, and has been dropping ever since as the Bush/Cheney recovery has overcome the C/G recession.
My memory must be failing as I seriously did not recall unemployment being below 5%, much less 4%. Too many headballs, I guess. Thanks for the correction.
Marco
I stand corrected.....according to that chart, unemployment was down as low as 3.8 in April 2000, and climbed to 4.2 % by Jan 2001, as the Clinton/Gore recession began kicking in. Clinton's last budget was for 2001. Unemployment then peaked in 2003, and has been dropping ever since as the Bush/Cheney recovery has overcome the C/G recession.
My memory must be failing as I seriously did not recall unemployment being below 5%, much less 4%. Too many headballs, I guess. Thanks for the correction.
Marco
you know dude, come election day, one of us is going to be left feeling Really lousy.
how 'bout we agree on a sort of reverse bet ?
whose ever side ends up winning
(yeah, i know, All things are spinnable (particularly in your world (!))) -
whoever wins, pledges to send the other some kind of significant (non-prank) gift.
you know, as a sign that even though we 'hate each others guts', we really don't hate each others guts.
(an' don't go gettin' pre-Eachy on me 'bout hatin')
waddayah think?
how 'bout we agree on a sort of reverse bet ?
whose ever side ends up winning
(yeah, i know, All things are spinnable (particularly in your world (!))) -
whoever wins, pledges to send the other some kind of significant (non-prank) gift.
you know, as a sign that even though we 'hate each others guts', we really don't hate each others guts.
(an' don't go gettin' pre-Eachy on me 'bout hatin')
waddayah think?
Dude, you said that way back in Dec 2005. When has he accused us of torture? Good thing he hasn't, 'cause if he did and it's believable, it would be a major black mark against us. As if Abu graib wasn't bad enough. I was actually toying with the idea of going to a friend's wedding in Palestinian Israel then, but after A.G. opened up I wouldn't go near the middle east. We Americans are just so loved right now I couldn't abide being mobbed with well wishers.Marco Zee wrote: We don't have to torture him in public, and he's gonna claim that we tortured him anyways, so might as well have done it, and reaped the benefits from it.
Marco
Omigod, I just admitted to being friends with a Palestinian. Guess I'm friends with all terrorists and that's why I vote Democratic, huh?
Brian Vant-Hull
Gary,
Since you asked for it......
• More than 6.6 million new jobs in the past 3+ years...more Americans working now than ever before (no Dems spouting jobless recovery any more).
• Dow Jones up over 12,000, once again an all-time high.
• Unemployment creeping lower
• Inflation under control with low interest rates available.
• Revenues to the treasury (after tax cuts) at all time highs
• Home ownership at all time highs
• Economy growing at a steady 3% clip
• Deficit shrinking thanks to economic rebound
• AQ & Assoc remain on the run as their leaders live in rat holes at 13,000 feet above MSL
• Iraq democratic government becoming entrenched while undergoing growing pains.
• Plans to build a border fence now in place.....needs expansion tho, but it's a good start
* NJ Supreme Court, like the Mass. SC, mandates that Legislature legalize gay marriage, once again demonstrating the dangers of a liberal activist judiciary
• John Kerry, representing many many Dems, once again insults and denegrates the rank-and-file troops serving in Iraq as a bunch of uneducated flunkies who are now stuck in Iraq. Thanks John for letting everyone know how you "really feel" about our troops !!!
Marco
Since you asked for it......
• More than 6.6 million new jobs in the past 3+ years...more Americans working now than ever before (no Dems spouting jobless recovery any more).
• Dow Jones up over 12,000, once again an all-time high.
• Unemployment creeping lower
• Inflation under control with low interest rates available.
• Revenues to the treasury (after tax cuts) at all time highs
• Home ownership at all time highs
• Economy growing at a steady 3% clip
• Deficit shrinking thanks to economic rebound
• AQ & Assoc remain on the run as their leaders live in rat holes at 13,000 feet above MSL
• Iraq democratic government becoming entrenched while undergoing growing pains.
• Plans to build a border fence now in place.....needs expansion tho, but it's a good start
* NJ Supreme Court, like the Mass. SC, mandates that Legislature legalize gay marriage, once again demonstrating the dangers of a liberal activist judiciary
• John Kerry, representing many many Dems, once again insults and denegrates the rank-and-file troops serving in Iraq as a bunch of uneducated flunkies who are now stuck in Iraq. Thanks John for letting everyone know how you "really feel" about our troops !!!
Marco
still waiting for the other shoe to drop, aren't you.deveil wrote:you know dude, come election day, one of us is going to be left feeling Really lousy.
how 'bout we agree on a sort of reverse bet ?
whose ever side ends up winning
(yeah, i know, All things are spinnable (particularly in your world (!))) -
whoever wins, pledges to send the other some kind of significant (non-prank) gift.
you know, as a sign that even though we 'hate each others guts', we really don't hate each others guts.
(an' don't go gettin' pre-Eachy on me 'bout hatin')
waddayah think?
do you have a hard time trusting ?
or is it just me?
well it's hard to blame you.
i mean, shrub just said that if the dems win, then the terrorists win.
which means i guess he's saying i support terrorists,
and am likely to be declared an enemy combatant !?
and then what...?
if you gave or rec'd a gift to/ffrom me
i'd guess you'd then be in danger of being accused of
consorting with the enemy?!
damn, things sure get sticky fast, don't they?
HEY !
LOOK !
WHAT'S THAT BEHIND YOU!
NO, NOT THERE - OVER THERE !
