USHGA XC Badge Program

rongleason · Post by **rongleason** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:21 am

am asking for your input and assistance on a project that I am working on for the USHGA.

How many of you are aware that the USHGA has XC Badge program? I am assuming not many as the number of applications received by the USHGA office in the last 2 year is ZERO! I feel this is a shame and a missed opportunity for the organization and us, its members. I want to revitalize this program and would appreciate your feedback and input.

Present program ? Fly a flight that is 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 or 300+ miles in length, download and fill out a form from the USHGA web site, submit the form with $10 and you receive a circular patch.

Proposed changes to the program ? The length for flights will stay the same. To submit a flight you would fill out the form or send an email with your track log attached, IGC, GPX, Flychart, G7TOWIN formats accepted, you chose the level of ?award? you desire, and your name and flight will be published in the USHGA magazine and on the website.

Questions:

1 ? Are you interested in an XC award program supported and administered by the USHGA?
2 ? When submitting flights what formats should we allow to be submitted?
3 ? Should we utilize the HOLC, online contest, system for this?
4 ? What level of award are you will to pay for? For example $5 for a patch, $20-25 for a nice embroided t-shirt or sweatshirt (USHGA logo, accomplishment and your name), $40-50 for embroided jacket, trophy or plaque? Others?
5 ? Should we allow for retroactive flights? That is should we allow flights that occurred in 2005 if flight documentation is available?

If we can put together a comprehensive and meaningful program I know people will participate. Furthermore, pilots/clubs can get together and have a badge weekend where they try to maximize the number of badges awarded, assist newer pilot in achieving badges, etc.

I appreciate your time and input. Feel free to post comments here or contact me directly.

Ron Gleason
xcflying@earthlink.net

Post by **tomceunen** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:16 am

to be honest
1 ? Are you interested in an XC award program supported and administered by the USHGA?
Answer===>no

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:29 pm

Don't mind Tom--he's from Remulac--a small town in Belgium.

Now wouldn't it be cool if the on-line annual XC submissions could be used as a way to aggregate points towards a position or two on the world team?? I bet you would see some increased interest in participating then.

marc

YouTube · Post by **CraginS** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm

[quote="rongleason"]>>SNIP<<
Present program ? Fly a flight that is 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 or 300+ miles in length, download and fill out a form from the USHGA web site, submit the form with $10 and you receive a circular patch.

Proposed changes to the program ? The length for flights will stay the same. >>SNIP<<
Ron Gl
eason
xcflying@earthlink.net[/quote]

Ron,
I think you have identified the key issue right there. Those distances appear to have been culled from the XC badge programs for sailplanes. Go look a the SSA XC badges and you will probably see similar numbers.
Now, look around our east coast clubs, and figure out the nature of our XCs logged. Review the reports from several years of East Coast Competition as reported by Pete Lehmann... Flyers around here are ecstatic at the rare but attainable 50+mile flight. Making it 100+ is a by golly major super Ric Niehaus kind of special accomplishment. Most really decent hobby level pilots in our various clubs spend a lot of years in the sub-50 mile range and are very happy with their performance.
Translation: Those distances are just not realistic for non-competition pilots on the east coast. (I can't speak for west coast and Rocky Mountain / desert pilots. Maybe they have better opportunities.) They are quite reasonable for sailplane pilots. For a sailplane, such distances are reasonably achievable. For the vast majority of us, exceeding 50 miles is a huge goal, and busting past 100 miles is pretty much unimaginable.
Now.. another aspect - a lot of us in HG are into personal freedom and Maslowian self-actualizatoin, and are not turned on by a merit-badge approach to measuring our accomplishments. How many club members have you seen wearing an overseas cap that looks like a member of American Legion or VFW, or a jacket that looks like a volksmarcher?
So, my message is, I don't think making the paperwork easier is going to change the situation one iota. The few folks who succeed in crossing one of those big numbers on a flight and want to get a patch or piece of paper will file the forms accordingly. Making the trinkets fancier or more valuable is not really going to incentivize either the long flights or the fililngs for the record. Sorry to sound negative, but from my perspective, that is a reality.

Cragin Shelton

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:39 pm

Not so sure about that, Craigin.

Those distances are rarely achieved by our region's pilots, to be frank, because they don't really try hard enough (in the interest of fairness disclosure--that category includes me).

But I like the idea of some kinky leather outfit as a reward for being the uber-xc guy.

marc

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:43 pm

Flying Lobster wrote:Not so sure about that, Craigin.

Those distances are rarely achieved by our region's pilots, to be frank, because they don't really try hard enough (in the interest of fairness disclosure--that category includes me).

But I like the idea of some kinky leather outfit as a reward for being the uber-xc guy.

marc

OOOps--or gal.

In fact, I like the idea of an uber-xc-frau in a kinky leather outfit even more!

marc

YouTube · Post by **CraginS** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:54 pm

Looking at the First Annual East Coast Hang Gliding Champlonship
http://www.ozreportradio.com/misc/Highl ... /index.htm

The longest task goal over the entire 7 days, for both flex wing and rigid classes, was 47.1 miles. For sport class, the max was 23.2 miles.

Do those numbers say something about reasonable XC expectations in our area?

Cragin

Post by **mcelrah** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:53 pm

Ron,
I'm a rookie XC pilot, so am prepared to be corrected on this:
since the badge program does not need the rigor of a comp or record
attempt, could the electronic documentation requirement be relaxed so
that if a guy didn't have his track log enabled or some such,
affidavits from a couple of witnesses could be accepted? - Hugh

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:58 pm

CraginS wrote:Looking at the First Annual East Coast Hang Gliding Champlonship
http://www.ozreportradio.com/misc/Highl ... /index.htm

The longest task goal over the entire 7 days, for both flex wing and rigid classes, was 47.1 miles. For sport class, the max was 23.2 miles.

Do those numbers say something about reasonable XC expectations in our area?

Cragin

Beats me! What do comp tasks have to do with region xc-ing??

marc

Post by **Matthew** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:31 pm

Badges??? We don't need no skinkin' BADGES!!!!

Matthew

Paul Tjaden · Post by **Paul Tjaden** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:36 pm

In a message dated 12/21/2005 10:22:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, xcflying@earthlink.net writes:
?
Hi Ron,

1 – Are you interested in an XC award program supported and administered by the USHGA?
Sure! Why not?

2 – When submitting flights what formats should we allow to be submitted?

IGC and OLC files are great but why not allow personal testimony from observers?

3 – Should we utilize the HOLC, online contest, system for this?

Works for me but some may not have the appropriate programs available.

4 – What level of award are you will to pay for? For example $5 for a patch, $20-25 for a nice embroided t-shirt or sweatshirt (USHGA logo, accomplishment and your name), $40-50 for embroided jacket, trophy or plaque? Others?

What are you going to do with a patch? It will just end up in a drawer. I like T-shirts or?sweat shirts.
?
?– Should we allow for retroactive flights? That is should we allow flights that occurred in 2005 if flight documentation is available?
?
Sure.

I think Craigin may have a point. I know several pilots in area 9 who have struggled for years to achieve a 25 mile flight. Why not get the beginners involved by offering awards for 10 miles and 25 miles as well as the longer distances.
?
Paul Tjaden
?

Paul Tjaden · Post by **Paul Tjaden** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:39 pm

"We don't need any Skinkin' badges"?

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:01 pm

mcelrah wrote:Ron,
I'm a rookie XC pilot, so am prepared to be corrected on this:
since the badge program does not need the rigor of a comp or record
attempt, could the electronic documentation requirement be relaxed so
that if a guy didn't have his track log enabled or some such,
affidavits from a couple of witnesses could be accepted? - Hugh

The present system requires a launch and landing witness. The xc award application can be downloaded from the USHGA site "forms."

marc

Post by **mcelrah** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:11 pm

Skinking: hunting and catching skinks (a type of lizard). Yeah,
whatever, I'm up for anything. How many skinks do I have to catch
to get a badge? - Hugh

Sue Clapsadle · Post by **Sue Clapsadle** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:11 pm

I don't believe it " I am from Remulac" er I mean France. LOL?
?
?
[img]cid:36b1468c-7262-11da-9640-444553540000[/img]
[img]cid:36b1468d-7262-11da-9640-444553540000[/img] [img]cid:36b1468e-7262-11da-9640-444553540000[/img]Photographer at Large
-------Original Message-------
?
?
Don't mind Tom--he's from Remulac--a small town in Belgium.??[Laughing]
?
Now wouldn't it be cool if the on-line annual XC submissions could be used as a way to aggregate points towards a position or two on the world team?? I bet you would see some increased interest in participating then.
?
marcNeo-ConGanja-BushMa
____________________________________________________
[img]cid:36b1468f-7262-11da-9640-444553540000[/img]? IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

rongleason · Post by **rongleason** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:30 pm

THANKS, you gals/guys are great and I appreciate the constructive feedback.

yes, we should lower the numbers to 5, 10, and 25 miles. What about altitude gains?

Yes, paperwork submission will be retained. This program can/should be an incentive to newer pilots but something every USHGA member should utilize regardless of what you fly, HG or PG.

Stay tuned for details and articles in the magazine

Ron

PS - I still have my 50 mile XC shirt from UP, you wrote up the flight detail and sent to the manufacturer and got the great rugby shirt. I would wear it if it still fir, damn that cotton shrinks over the years. BTW I got the shirt in 1981

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:32 pm

And you may join us to consume mass quantities of beer.

marc

John Simon · Post by **John Simon** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:41 pm

Regarding the ECC and the tasks, the weather was very tame. Although
most days were flyable there were fairly low cloud bases on many of the
comp days. This made for a very challenging and enjoyable comp and I flew
on many days when I would not have even thought of doing so. I learned a
lot from getting up in the air on those days and was amazed to squeak out
some climbs and drifts and miles while mostly below 2000' or even lower! I
don't think we had more than one really strong day on paper and if we had
more the tasks might have been more ambitious. That being said, miles are
not a gimme on the east coast and I think Cragin got it right... 10, 20, 30,
50, 75, 100 miles are great goals. I like the idea of T-shirts as patches
are cool but maybe less useful. I still have a ton from my time in the
service and haven't gotten around to putting them on my jacket. Either way,
awards can be a decent motivation.

Merry Freakin' Xmas

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Flying Lobster [mailto:in_a_cloud@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:01 PM
To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: USHGA XC Badge Program

mcelrah wrote:
Ron,
I'm a rookie XC pilot, so am prepared to be corrected on this:
since the badge program does not need the rigor of a comp or record
attempt, could the electronic documentation requirement be relaxed so
that if a guy didn't have his track log enabled or some such,
affidavits from a couple of witnesses could be accepted? - Hugh
(end of quote)

The present system requires a launch and landing witness. The xc award
application can be downloaded from the USHGA site "forms."

marcNeo-ConGanja-BushMan

Lauren Tjaden · Post by **Lauren Tjaden** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:21 am

I agree that T-shirts would be a much better idea. Of course, cute girlie ones would be need to be available...
Lauren

rongleason <xcflying@earthlink.net> wrote:

am asking for your input and assistance on a project that I am working on for the USHGA.

How many of you are aware that the USHGA has XC Badge program? I am assuming not many as the number of applications received by the USHGA office in the last 2 year is ZERO! I feel this is a shame and a missed opportunity for the organization and us, its members. I want to revitalize this program and would appreciate your feedback and input.

Present program ? Fly a flight that is 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 or 300+ miles in length, download and fill out a form from the USHGA web site, submit the form with $10 and you receive a circular patch.

Proposed changes to the program ? The length for flights will stay the same. To submit a flight you would fill out the form or send an email with your track log attached, IGC, GPX, Flychart, G7TOWIN formats accepted, you chose the level of ?award? you desire, and your name and flight will be published in the USHGA magazine and on the website.

Questions:

1 ? Are you interested in an XC award program supported and administered by the USHGA?
2 ? When submitting flights what formats should we allow to be submitted?
3 ? Should we utilize the HOLC, online contest, system for this?
4 ? What level of award are you will to pay for? For example $5 for a patch, $20-25 for a nice embroided t-shirt or sweatshirt (USHGA logo, accomplishment and your name), $40-50 for embroided jacket, trophy or plaque? Others?
5 ? Should we allow for retroactive flights? That is should we allow flights that occurred in 2005 if flight documentation is available?

If we can put together a comprehensive and meaningful program I know people will participate. Furthermore, pilots/clubs can get together and have a badge weekend where they try to maximize the number of badges awarded, assist newer pilot in achieving badges, etc.

I appreciate your time and input. Feel free to post comments here or contact me directly.

Ron Gleason
xcflying@earthlink.net

__________________________________________________
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Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:49 am

John Simon wrote:Regarding the ECC and the tasks, the weather was very tame. Although
most days were flyable there were fairly low cloud bases on many of the
comp days. This made for a very challenging and enjoyable comp and I flew
on many days when I would not have even thought of doing so. I learned a
lot from getting up in the air on those days and was amazed to squeak out
some climbs and drifts and miles while mostly below 2000' or even lower! I
don't think we had more than one really strong day on paper and if we had
more the tasks might have been more ambitious. That being said, miles are
not a gimme on the east coast and I think Cragin got it right... 10, 20, 30,
50, 75, 100 miles are great goals. I like the idea of T-shirts as patches
are cool but maybe less useful. I still have a ton from my time in the
service and haven't gotten around to putting them on my jacket. Either way,
awards can be a decent motivation.

Merry Freakin' Xmas

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Flying Lobster [mailto:in_a_cloud@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:01 PM
To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: USHGA XC Badge Program

mcelrah wrote:
Ron,
I'm a rookie XC pilot, so am prepared to be corrected on this:
since the badge program does not need the rigor of a comp or record
attempt, could the electronic documentation requirement be relaxed so
that if a guy didn't have his track log enabled or some such,
affidavits from a couple of witnesses could be accepted? - Hugh
(end of quote)

The present system requires a launch and landing witness. The xc award
application can be downloaded from the USHGA site "forms."

marcNeo-ConGanja-BushMan

I absolutely agree that an "entry-level" distance of maybe 25 miles should be adopted.

My arguement is simply that there is a distinct relationship between distances flown and attempts made. You gotta be there and you have to try.

Interestingly enough, the more you try-- the farther you will go! You have my word on it!

marc

Post by **mcelrah** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:47 pm

Yes, I'll take two.? Low cut with darts for my pecs and short enough to show off my belly button. - Hugh

Lauren Tjaden <giddyupandglide@yahoo.com> wrote:

I agree that T-shirts would be a much better idea. Of course, cute girlie ones would be need to be available...
Lauren

rongleason wrote:

Quote:

am asking for your input and assistance on a project that I am working on for the USHGA.

How many of you are aware that the USHGA has XC Badge program? I am assuming not many as the number of applications received by the USHGA office in the last 2 year is ZERO! I feel this is a shame and a missed opportunity for the organization and us, its members. I want to revitalize this program and would appreciate your feedback and input.

Present program ? Fly a flight that is 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 or 300+ miles in length, download and fill out a form from the USHGA web site, submit the form with $10 and you receive a circular patch.

Proposed changes to the program ? The length for flights will stay the same. To submit a flight you would fill out the form or send an email with your track log attached, IGC, GPX, Flychart, G7TOWIN formats accepted, you chose the level of ?award? you desire, and your name and flight will be published in the USHGA magazine and on the website.

Questions:

1 ? Are you interested in an XC award program supported and administered by the USHGA?
2 ? When submitting flights what formats should we allow to be submitted?
3 ? Should we utilize the HOLC, online contest, system for this?
4 ? What level of award are you will to pay for? For example $5 for a patch, $20-25 for a nice embroided t-shirt or sweatshirt (USHGA logo, accomplishment and your name), $40-50 for embroided jacket, trophy or plaque? Others?
5 ? Should we allow for retroactive flights? That is should we allow flights that occurred in 2005 if flight documentation is available?

If we can put together a comprehensive and meaningful program I know people will participate. Furthermore, pilots/clubs can get together and have a badge weekend where they try to maximize the number of badges awarded, assist newer pilot in achieving badges, etc.

I appreciate your time and input. Feel free to post comments here or contact me directly.

Ron Gleason
xcflying@earthlink.net

(end of quote)

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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

jimrooney · Post by **jimrooney** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:54 pm

Can I just have the cutie girl instead?

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:48 pm

jimrooney wrote:Can I just have the cutie girl instead?

Not enough sheep in NZ??

marc

Post by **hang_pilot** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:17 pm

1 ? Are you interested in an XC award program administered by USHGA?
>>>Yes and, yes, add a 25 miler.

2 ? When submitting flights what formats should we allow?
>>>Self-report without validation. There?s really nothing of any import on the line. Why not?

3 ? Should we utilize the HOLC, online contest?
>>> Not now, maybe in the future. US participation level seems too low & I don?t think the promise of a badge or tee is going to drive anyone to sign-up. Currently just 39 U.S. pilots are registered for the HOLC. I recently registered, it only took a few minutes: www2.onlinecontest.org/holc

[As a reminder to all, check-out the current Skyline for the article by Marrcel Dettling on uploading flights.] I've also added CHGPA to the list of clubs.

4 ? What level of award are you willing to pay for?
>>>1) Patch (it would be there everytime I fly), 2) Tee.

5 ? Should we allow for retroactive flights?
>>>Absolutely. Without documentation.

Hi, Ron-

Thanks for hanging out in our little corner of free flying heaven for a chat and for trying to promote xc!

I'm lucky, I?ve actually seen one of these rare patches in the wild: a 300-miler sewn to Pete Lehmann?s harness. If I fly 300 miles, I will probably sew the patch to my forehead! I would sew one on my ass, too, except it would cover up the batten boy tattoo (ask Lauren).

Speaking of Pete, as you probably know, he runs two region-wide cross country competitions. As Marc mentioned, the frequency of xc flight attempts around here seems to be on a downward trend. It shows up in Pete?s comps in declining registration numbers. I have communicated w. Pete (& Kevin Carter) about promoting his comps by posting flights on a website. Hopefully, we would develop more excitement if people could follow current standings. When I next revisit this issue with Pete, I?ll mention submitting award worthy flights for xc badges. You might also mention that idea to the leaders of the xc leagues out west.

Cheers,
Daniel Broxterman

Flying Lobster · Post by **Flying Lobster** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:38 am

hang_pilot wrote:1 ? Are you interested in an XC award program administered by USHGA?
>>>Yes and, yes, add a 25 miler.

2 ? When submitting flights what formats should we allow?
>>>Self-report without validation. There?s really nothing of any import on the line. Why not?

3 ? Should we utilize the HOLC, online contest?
>>> Not now, maybe in the future. US participation level seems too low & I don?t think the promise of a badge or tee is going to drive anyone to sign-up. Currently just 39 U.S. pilots are registered for the HOLC. I recently registered, it only took a few minutes: www2.onlinecontest.org/holc

[As a reminder to all, check-out the current Skyline for the article by Marrcel Dettling on uploading flights.] I've also added CHGPA to the list of clubs.

4 ? What level of award are you willing to pay for?
>>>1) Patch (it would be there everytime I fly), 2) Tee.

5 ? Should we allow for retroactive flights?
>>>Absolutely. Without documentation.

Hi, Ron-

Thanks for hanging out in our little corner of free flying heaven for a chat and for trying to promote xc!

I'm lucky, I?ve actually seen one of these rare patches in the wild: a 300-miler sewn to Pete Lehmann?s harness. If I fly 300 miles, I will probably sew the patch to my forehead! I would sew one on my ass, too, except it would cover up the batten boy tattoo (ask Lauren).

Speaking of Pete, as you probably know, he runs two region-wide cross country competitions. As Marc mentioned, the frequency of xc flight attempts around here seems to be on a downward trend. It shows up in Pete?s comps in declining registration numbers. I have communicated w. Pete (& Kevin Carter) about promoting his comps by posting flights on a website. Hopefully, we would develop more excitement if people could follow current standings. When I next revisit this issue with Pete, I?ll mention submitting award worthy flights for xc badges. You might also mention that idea to the leaders of the xc leagues out west.

Cheers,
Daniel Broxterman

The darndest thing about mechanical verification is that everything seems to get less significant. Since I've started flying with a Compeo and downloading my flights into CU, the duration, altitude gain and distances flown have all seemed to have gotten shorter compared to the old ways of verification. Anyone else experience this weirdness?

marc

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