Sunday in the Park With Hang Glider

MikeBalk · Post by **MikeBalk** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:51 pm

Regarding holding the glider up to get tension on the hang strap, I think
there is confusion between lifting the glider up as a 'hooked in' check,
then putting it back down on your shoulders to start a normal launch run,
versus lifting the glider up and starting the run that way.

Consensus (if I may) is it is good for a hook in check, and bad to try to
hold it there while running.

-Mike

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:53 pm

Okay, just a few more cents from me (maybe not worth more than that!)...when I put tension on my legloops/hang strap just before the launch run, I'm tall enough and my shoulders are wide enough that I can do this without losing contact between the downtubes and my arms/shoulders. I've never felt that I lose control of the glider when doing it...but it could be one of those "your mileage may vary" techniques, depending on how tall you are, your shoulder width, etc.

Scott

Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:11 pm

There is also the good holding up of the glider. If it's windy you sometimes have better control by hoisting the glider up off your shoulders and letting it fly while standing at launch. This is best practiced at Smithsburg on a windy day.

Matthew

Post by **breezyk1d** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:11 pm

Spark wrote:

"I use a modified form of the grapevine I call the 'gorilla grip'. It involves using a grapevine grip + I wear football receiver gloves to provide a superior grip.

"

I DO (really) use football reciever gloves. Spark, I cannot tell if you are joking or not because of the wink you added! Those were the very stickiest gloves I could find and they work great.

I would like to ask if folks can address a grip question for me - reviewing Ralph's photo's of my launches, I've noticed that I stay in the grapevine for quite a while after leaving launch. I hadn't realized that I do that. Most other folk seem to transition much sooner than I. Is there any detriment to staying in the grapevine as long as I do?

Links to some of my launches provided below:
http://photos.sickinger.net/20050820_hi ... index.html
http://photos.sickinger.net/20050917_pu ... index.html
http://photos.sickinger.net/20050918_pu ... index.html

It seems that I use my shoulders for pushing the glider to get momentum, and the grapevine allows that more easily. But obviously there is no need to stay in the grapevine once I've departed launch. I would appreciate comment and recommendations. Thank you, Linda

Post by **rs54263** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:31 pm

>> Is there any detriment to staying in the grapevine as long as I do?

The important thing in launching is pitch control. As I look at your
launches, it seems as though you have the downtubes locked where your
wrist bends, limiting the forward travel of the basetube. (It appears
to be effective, but it looks potentially painful!) I notice that your
glider angle stays pretty well flat (horizontal) until you release the
grapevine, at which point the nose comes up. To me, this represents a
lack (or rather a restricted amount) of pitch control; this may have
contributed to that ugly diving launch you had at the Pulpit.

~Ralph

Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:22 pm

I've thought of about a million comments I could make about Linda's very firm grip on the downtube. But, alas, I have been disallowed from making any such statements. I can, however, comment that Linda's grip position may simply be because she has very limber shoulder joints.

Matthew

Post by **rs54263** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:35 pm

Certainly no detriments there!

~Ralph

>>I've thought of about a million comments I could make about Linda's
very firm grip on the downtube. But, alas, I have been disallowed from
making any such statements. I can, however, comment that Linda's grip
position may simply be because she has very limber shoulder joints.

Matthew<<

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:41 am

breezyk1d wrote:Spark wrote:

"I use a modified form of the grapevine I call the 'gorilla grip'. It involves using a grapevine grip + I wear football receiver gloves to provide a superior grip. "

I DO (really) use football reciever gloves. Spark, I cannot tell if you are joking or not because of the wink you added! Those were the very stickiest gloves I could find and they work great.

I am only kiiding around about the name "Gorilla". The gloves are essential for me, particularly so when my hands are sweaty, or when I am flying a glider (e.g. Talon) with wide downtubes. I have had some problems due to 'slippage' on landing. I like the lightweight receiver gloves - it is kinda like having grip tape everywhere you grip. ... The only problem I have had with them was whilst trying to throw my Zagi

Post by **brianvh** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:47 am

Obviously since there are so many different grips used it's hard to give clear advice accept to practice launching in many different conditions and find what works best for you. But I can make a list of pro/cons for each type of grips:

Bottle Grip - good sensitivity to the glider, already in upright flying position, but easier to lose control in a turbulent launch.

Grapevine - locked-in control, but not as sensitive or as quick in response time as the free-jointed bottle grip position.

Grapevine transitioning to Bottle when glider lifts - a blend of the best of both worlds, but there is the danger of losing control during the transition. I've seen folks drop the glider because they were signalled to transition as a gust lifted the glider, but weren't ready to catch it as it dropped.

No matter what grip you decide on, the main thing is to make sure that a few steps into the launch you are pulling the glider by the STRAP, not the downtubes! That's why the grip can vary so much.

Post by **breezyk1d** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:43 pm

thanks all, I appreciate the input! - Linda

Post by **dbodner** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:35 pm

I was at the beach during this exchange, but I can't help weighing in.
First, let me say to everybody, don't do as I say or as I do.? Do as your instructor taught you.? I offer this more as an example of the variability out there rather than what's correct.

My instructor would go Steve one better.? He considered leaning forward a major sin, because of the tendency to allow the nose to pop (not sure I ever really believed him).? Instead, we should run rather upright, leading with our legs while taking abnormally long, moon-walk strides.? Think of the "keep on truckin'" guy from the late '60s posters.? As to grip, he was a grape-to-bottle guy.? Start with the grape, then as the glider starts to get light, transition to bottle one hand at a time (here's the freaky part) around chest level. ?To avoid "death-grip" encircle the DTs with thumb and forefinger in the "OK" sign. ?That ensures the DTs can slide up when the glider is ready to fly. ?I guess this works only with round DTs.

Not sure what I actually do anymore, especially with our cliff and ramps.? I no longer even remember my launches.? The one technique I might actually suggest as being helpful is to focus on a distant object during launch.? Not sure why, but I always found it helpful. Maybe it's a positive example of object fixation.? Look up at your nose and your nose'll probably go up.

Dave

On Oct 18, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Scott wrote:

Since he doesn't hang out here, I can paraphrase what Steve Wendt said to me recently about launch technique. Many pilots (including me) try to lean forward---aggressively---with our heads through the control frame, driving the glider forward.

Steve told me that when you lean forward like that, it requires you to bring your hands even farther back to keep the nose down. In other words, if you start your run standing up straight, as your upper body leans over and through the control frame, the natural tendency is to keep your hands in the same place they were when you were standing up. This results in a "pushing out" of the control frame, which raises the nose.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:08 am

After all this talk of launch techniques, what did I do at Taylor Farm yesterday? I just launched!

Seriously, I didn't think about anything but a strong run and keeping the nose down---that's it. It worked fine!

So I guess that's the bottom line for me---wings level, nose down (proper AOA) and run like crazy into the air! (My hands just did their own thing automagically.) I think that's all the glider asks of us, then it works its magic and we fly.

Scott

Post by **hang_pilot** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:10 pm

Similar discussions from the Oz Report are here:

http://ozreport.com/otherarticles.php

Scroll down to launches heading

~Daniel

Post by **mcelrah** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:54 pm

Where do you get the gloves? I may still end up putting tennis
racket grip on my DTs, much to the chagrin of those who care about
having an aerodynamically clean glider, cause it sometimes feels like
the glider is sliding around on my shoulders when the wind is
twitchy... - Hugh

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:23 pm

mcelrah wrote:Where do you get the gloves?
... cause it sometimes feels like
the glider is sliding around on my shoulders

Under Armour HeatGear Z1 Football Receiver Gloves - $29
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... t&v=glance

Palmgard Grip Tack Adult Football Receiver Gloves - $18
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... t&v=glance

Also, a bit pricier at - http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/

You may not have as much shoulder-sliding when you use the Grip Tack gloves.

Post by **hepcat1989** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:24 pm

Good 10 speed(bicycle) handle bar grip works well for DT's.

Post by **breezyk1d** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:31 pm

I got mine at Sport Authority. I had to buy a boy's pair since the men's sizes were too big.

I also have my DT's wrapped most beautifully by Ralph with bicycle tape. He charges a small fee to cover the cost of the material. But he knows how to do it well. The combination is a good grip without fail. -Linda

Post by **Matthew** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:26 pm

For winter flying I also use stick'em spray on my ski gloves to get a better grip, also sold at Sports Authority and the like. It's designed to be sprayed on footballs but works great on gloves too and the stickiness doesn't last too long. Don't want sticky fingers or a sticky downtube all day, especially on a cold winter day.... :)

Well, maybe....

Matthew

Post by **mcelrah** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:41 pm

Thanks, but isn't there also an issue with friction between shoulders
and DTs when ground handling? - Hugh

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:15 pm

mcelrah wrote:Thanks, but isn't there also an issue with friction between shoulders and DTs when ground handling? - Hugh

Friction between ears, perhaps ...

Spark · Post by **Spark** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:18 pm

Spark wrote:
mcelrah wrote:Thanks, but isn't there also an issue with friction between shoulders and DTs when ground handling? - Hugh
Friction between ears, perhaps ...

Darn, I hate these computers ... didn't mean to press 'submit' so soon.

What I meant, is ... er ... perhaps ya should try spraying the sticky stuff on yer shoulders ...

or something ...

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