By now many are probably wondering how to make some sense out of what has happened and the ensuing conversation that followed.
Over-riding all other concerns, how can we prevent this sort of thing from happening again? The simple answer seems to be unless you stop flying altogether, this kind of accident is not totally preventable.
In my inimitable style, I managed to piss-off a couple of pilots by dragging the dirt out right after they posted very well thought-out statements on hookin procedures. These pilots are among the most skilled and experienced pilots in our community, so I thought it would make a "dramatic" example to show that really any of us can become a victim if just momentarily distracted. I perceived a disturbing trend in the posts that isolated Bill as someone who screwed up monumentally and rationalized away the "responsibilty" aspect.
The core of what we do is simply we, as pilots are "responsible" for everything that happens to us based on our decision to fly. And what we do is dangerous. Simple as that.
But does that mean we shouldn't redouble our efforts to look out for one another (and ourselves)? If you happen to be one of those guys present when something slips by, even if you have no "responsibility" for it--you will forever live it and wonder "If only..." Just imagine your best friend getting killed. Nobody in this sport has ever died from being overly scrutinized.
Its my hope that by scaring enough people as to how easily this kind of accident can happen, coupled with renewed vigilance on the part of everyone, that we can push out the time frame when this kind of thing happens again.
In addition to the obvious consequences of launching unhooked, think about how often that zipper wasn't closed, that string wasn't stowed, that batten or sprog wasn't attached quite right, etc. etc. Did you REALLY do that complete preflight?
I know I have had more than my share of screw-ups. I also know how stunningly easy it is to get distracted while setting up and preparing to launch.
So, if you want to get in my face and and look my glider over and ask for hang checks--that's fine by me (as long as you get out of the way when I yell clear!).
saving up for beers,
marc
PS: I really liked the stuff R. Hayes posted.
Hookin wrap-up
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Good words Marc. In all the dialog (flames?) I was involved in, I was totally unprepared for the strong reaction to the use of the word "responsibility." Clearly some of this reaction has its roots in valid concerns over legal liability.
Regardless of what word you want to use---whether "responsible," "obligated," "inclined," "leaning toward" or whatever, we all care about one another (or do we?) and to institutionalize an "every person for themself" policy to the exclusion of keeping an eye on each other is---in my opinion only---not good.
There definitely seems to be a split in the flying community. It's interesting to me because in some respects, it reflects the different world views of conservatives and progressives (both of which are valid!).
On one side, we have pilots who believe we are all ultimately alone, and to rely on others---even to the slightest degree---is a sign of weakness and might even endanger us. (The "conservative" view.)
On the other side, we have pilots who believe we are a community, and only by watching each others' backs will we ensure our collective survival. (The "progressive" view.)
In any case, we've all had a good dose of the consequences of both---not looking out for ourselves...as well as not looking out for our fellow pilots.
It's not something I'll forget anytime soon.
Scott
Regardless of what word you want to use---whether "responsible," "obligated," "inclined," "leaning toward" or whatever, we all care about one another (or do we?) and to institutionalize an "every person for themself" policy to the exclusion of keeping an eye on each other is---in my opinion only---not good.
There definitely seems to be a split in the flying community. It's interesting to me because in some respects, it reflects the different world views of conservatives and progressives (both of which are valid!).
On one side, we have pilots who believe we are all ultimately alone, and to rely on others---even to the slightest degree---is a sign of weakness and might even endanger us. (The "conservative" view.)
On the other side, we have pilots who believe we are a community, and only by watching each others' backs will we ensure our collective survival. (The "progressive" view.)
In any case, we've all had a good dose of the consequences of both---not looking out for ourselves...as well as not looking out for our fellow pilots.
It's not something I'll forget anytime soon.
Scott
-
Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
Scott, I don't think there's the kind of split you think. And I think that most pilots do care for eachother's wellfare. There is a difference between "Every pilot needs to be responsible (i.e. reserve ultimate decision for flight) for themselves" and "every pilot for themselves." The latter implies intentional neglect.Scott wrote:Good words Marc. In all the dialog (flames?) I was involved in, I was totally unprepared for the strong reaction to the use of the word "responsibility." Clearly some of this reaction has its roots in valid concerns over legal liability.
Regardless of what word you want to use---whether "responsible," "obligated," "inclined," "leaning toward" or whatever, we all care about one another (or do we?) and to institutionalize an "every person for themself" policy to the exclusion of keeping an eye on each other is---in my opinion only---not good.
There definitely seems to be a split in the flying community. It's interesting to me because in some respects, it reflects the different world views of conservatives and progressives (both of which are valid!).
On one side, we have pilots who believe we are all ultimately alone, and to rely on others---even to the slightest degree---is a sign of weakness and might even endanger us. (The "conservative" view.)
On the other side, we have pilots who believe we are a community, and only by watching each others' backs will we ensure our collective survival. (The "progressive" view.)
In any case, we've all had a good dose of the consequences of both---not looking out for ourselves...as well as not looking out for our fellow pilots.
It's not something I'll forget anytime soon.
Scott
I don't view this issue so much as an either or case. In my view, human judgement, and things humans build, are prone to failing at some point. What those odds are are hard to quantify--and vary from one pilot to the next (ever heard someone say "they had it coming to them?"). The odds are very small, but in our small community it is a profound event when those snakeyes are finally rolled by someone we know personally.
The nature of what we do is dangerous. It tends to be unforgiving of even small mistakes. This is balanced by the thrill of soaring like a bird--a sensation unmatched by any other activity. What we do demands exceptional skill and judgement to become a long-term safe pilot. And perhaps some luck. Although much can be taught, and read, and help offered by other pilots when we fly--everything comes down to that single moment when the pilot decides to leave earth. And in that moment, if they can't place confidence in their own decision (and all the steps it took to get to that moment), then this is not the right sport for them.
Events like this DO hurt us all. It hurts the entire sport of hang gliding, which itself has a rather precarious future (IMO). That's why we all need to become more concerned about eachother. We are each pilot alone, but we are collectively a rather small gaggle that needs to help eachother in order to stay up!
marc
PS--Now would be a good time for Joe Gregor to weigh in with words of wisdom.
Great Googly-moo!
-
batmanh3
Regardless of what word you want to use---whether "responsible," "obligated," "inclined," "leaning toward" or whatever, we all care about one another (or do we?) and to institutionalize an "every person for themself" policy to the exclusion of keeping an eye on each other is---in my opinion only---not good.
Scott -
Sometimes, just when I think you've got it, you say something stupid like this. I have the benefit of speaking from years of aviation experience. Not to belittle your experience, but you are still in the infancy of your aviation career. I would be willing to bet that EVERY pilot, whether they be military, civilian, hang gliding or other, cares about their fellow pilot. Every one of us hopes and prays that when they land, they have the same number of friends walking this earth as they did when they took off. You are so wrapped around this whole "litigation" mentality that you have completely lost sight of the point the experienced pilots are trying to make. I don't believe for one second that our decisions are based upon worry of lawsuit. I have an expectation that every pilot has gone thru basic training and that they are committed to being the safest pilot that they can. Sure we all make mistakes and I do my best to doublecheck every pilot I wire off, hence the reason I caught Bill's mistake the first time. You are too busy combining the relation between pilot error and wire crew concern when they do NOT belong together. I hold a level of responsibility for my own actions and I expect every other pilot to exhibit that same responsibility. If they don't, then I consider it a failure of their ability to pilot their aircraft. Being a pilot takes self-responsibility that cannot be passed or shared. It is the wires crew to maintain control of the hangglider in conditions when a pilot is unable to control it himself/herself. I believe all of our wirecrews are cognizant of actively looking for hook-in problems, or improper preflights, but you REALLY need to get over this expectation that it is their job. They are NOT part of your flight crew. They have no implied responsbility to make sure you have done your job. I don't give a rats ass over implied legal-ese. The fact of the matter is some people play more attention to details and are able to catch others mistakes. As the reports of Bill's accident have been replayed and rehashed, it seems that crew near launched asked Bill more than once if he had done a hang check ... just as I had when he was at Pulpit. How much more can a wire crew do if the pilot himself assures them that it is complete? Your opinions make it seem as if the wire crew should take over and do a second hang check for the pilot to assure themselves that they have done everything possible. This sport requires self-responsibility, plain and simple. I have been there done this for a long time and there are very few people outside of your aircraft that you can blame for mistakes made inside the cockpit. If you screw-up, I guarantee that we will all grieve and wish that it had been done better ... but when you peel back all the layers of the onion, you get to the center of it boiling down to pilot error and lack of attention to detail. That lack of attention to detail by the pilot in charge is what ultimately caused this accident. I am done with this arguement, I'm sure you will want the last word so it is yours. Argue with the facts or use it to make yourself a better and more attentive pilot.
Chris
Scott -
Sometimes, just when I think you've got it, you say something stupid like this. I have the benefit of speaking from years of aviation experience. Not to belittle your experience, but you are still in the infancy of your aviation career. I would be willing to bet that EVERY pilot, whether they be military, civilian, hang gliding or other, cares about their fellow pilot. Every one of us hopes and prays that when they land, they have the same number of friends walking this earth as they did when they took off. You are so wrapped around this whole "litigation" mentality that you have completely lost sight of the point the experienced pilots are trying to make. I don't believe for one second that our decisions are based upon worry of lawsuit. I have an expectation that every pilot has gone thru basic training and that they are committed to being the safest pilot that they can. Sure we all make mistakes and I do my best to doublecheck every pilot I wire off, hence the reason I caught Bill's mistake the first time. You are too busy combining the relation between pilot error and wire crew concern when they do NOT belong together. I hold a level of responsibility for my own actions and I expect every other pilot to exhibit that same responsibility. If they don't, then I consider it a failure of their ability to pilot their aircraft. Being a pilot takes self-responsibility that cannot be passed or shared. It is the wires crew to maintain control of the hangglider in conditions when a pilot is unable to control it himself/herself. I believe all of our wirecrews are cognizant of actively looking for hook-in problems, or improper preflights, but you REALLY need to get over this expectation that it is their job. They are NOT part of your flight crew. They have no implied responsbility to make sure you have done your job. I don't give a rats ass over implied legal-ese. The fact of the matter is some people play more attention to details and are able to catch others mistakes. As the reports of Bill's accident have been replayed and rehashed, it seems that crew near launched asked Bill more than once if he had done a hang check ... just as I had when he was at Pulpit. How much more can a wire crew do if the pilot himself assures them that it is complete? Your opinions make it seem as if the wire crew should take over and do a second hang check for the pilot to assure themselves that they have done everything possible. This sport requires self-responsibility, plain and simple. I have been there done this for a long time and there are very few people outside of your aircraft that you can blame for mistakes made inside the cockpit. If you screw-up, I guarantee that we will all grieve and wish that it had been done better ... but when you peel back all the layers of the onion, you get to the center of it boiling down to pilot error and lack of attention to detail. That lack of attention to detail by the pilot in charge is what ultimately caused this accident. I am done with this arguement, I'm sure you will want the last word so it is yours. Argue with the facts or use it to make yourself a better and more attentive pilot.
Chris
Sigh. Just when I thought I'd done my last word. It has nothing to do with legal liability, as in coming from outside our community. It does have something to do with whether there should be finger pointing inside our community.Scott wrote:Good words Marc. In all the dialog (flames?) I was involved in, I was totally unprepared for the strong reaction to the use of the word "responsibility." Clearly some of this reaction has its roots in valid concerns over legal liability.
Scott
As Ralph said, the pilot must feel responsible, the wire crew should feel responsible, but can't be held responsible by the community. Since all people are imperfect (though we will try our best) in this system only the pilot is seen to be the recipient of his own imperfection. It's the only way we can live with each other.
Brian Vant-Hull