. The wire crew helped me unhook and roll the glider on the wheels up the hill and back to the setup area. In retrospect, most likely some rotor rolled off of the tree line to the left and splashed down on top of the glider. Just bad timing? My thanks to Allan Bawell, Aron Lantz, and his wife Julie for the assistance in helping me unhook and move the glider from partially down the hill back to the setup area, and for sharing what they felt and saw. I plan to get the glider repaired ASAP at Blue Sky, and I welcome discussion on this incident. This incident is eerily reminiscent of the incident that happened to me on 1/20/2018 on the pad at the Pulpit, w/ the same half a ground loop ensuing after the glider going negative after the 1st step. BacilAccident Report 4/23/21
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Accident Report 4/23/21
I hate to say it, but here I am again writing up an accident report. Aborted a launch yesterday at Elizabethville. The conditions were cross from the SW to straight in from the west. Staged the glider in the general area that you should, and watched the conditions for a minute or two. A nice cycle filtered in, as indicated by the windsock and the streamers. Cleared the nose man, picked up the glider, and had the wire crew pull the left wing back a little. Felt balanced, and cleared the wire crew. Took one step and the glider went completely negative, w/ the control frame striking the ground. I dug in my heels to stop the launch and stop the glider from advancing, but my shoes slid on the grassy knolls. I was now along for a slow ride downhill (like a gravity assisted launch), as the wheels started rolling. I was hoping for some way to stop the glider, but there really was none, other than pure luck. The right wing came up a little, and the glider did a slow half a ground loop. Unfortunately the keel snapped just fore of the xbar pullback catch, likely from lateral stress dragging along the hill during the slow half ground loop; the left wingtip batten got snapped in two, and the new crop of sticker vines poking thru the grass made the inside of my legs look like I had been in a fight w/ a bobcat . The wire crew helped me unhook and roll the glider on the wheels up the hill and back to the setup area. In retrospect, most likely some rotor rolled off of the tree line to the left and splashed down on top of the glider. Just bad timing? My thanks to Allan Bawell, Aron Lantz, and his wife Julie for the assistance in helping me unhook and move the glider from partially down the hill back to the setup area, and for sharing what they felt and saw. I plan to get the glider repaired ASAP at Blue Sky, and I welcome discussion on this incident. This incident is eerily reminiscent of the incident that happened to me on 1/20/2018 on the pad at the Pulpit, w/ the same half a ground loop ensuing after the glider going negative after the 1st step. Bacil
. The wire crew helped me unhook and roll the glider on the wheels up the hill and back to the setup area. In retrospect, most likely some rotor rolled off of the tree line to the left and splashed down on top of the glider. Just bad timing? My thanks to Allan Bawell, Aron Lantz, and his wife Julie for the assistance in helping me unhook and move the glider from partially down the hill back to the setup area, and for sharing what they felt and saw. I plan to get the glider repaired ASAP at Blue Sky, and I welcome discussion on this incident. This incident is eerily reminiscent of the incident that happened to me on 1/20/2018 on the pad at the Pulpit, w/ the same half a ground loop ensuing after the glider going negative after the 1st step. BacilRe: Accident Report 4/23/21
Glad you're OK! We can bring branding iron to get you moving faster next time or you could move up to a 155 if you've put on a few pounds. JJ. Come out to Heleam Hill next time I'm there on a Sunday to get.some practice runs in. As you are aware, I haven't been practicing as much as I should. I'm working my way up to handling more students on the weekends.
Last edited by A.Lloyd on Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Yeah, glad you're okay. Fight with the bob cats. I think I agree with Anthony, just get the 155. You say yourself you are heavy on the glider.
Anthony is that the new training hill you went to last week? Looks sweet and not as tedious on the legs for the walk back up.
Anthony is that the new training hill you went to last week? Looks sweet and not as tedious on the legs for the walk back up.
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Bacil,
Sorry to hear that you had a hick-up
Glad you are doing okay...
Knut
Sorry to hear that you had a hick-up
Glad you are doing okay...
Knut
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
It's not new, it's very old. There is a creek, uphill and fence so you need to be on your game. Different Topic.
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1otIII2007
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:10 am
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Let’s consider the issue of an aborted launch. Bacil tried to abort the launch after he had taken a step. As steep as Elizabethville launch is where tried to take off, it’s like an airplane being too far down the runway to abort. At that point you most likely will have wreckage. Bacil claims his glider went negative and that was the reason he tried to abort. That’s not really what I saw. The wing seemed to still be loaded and wings were level when he just stopped running. Then the glider got out in front of him and he fell prone.
What I propose is that he hit a negative gust (wind blowing then suddenly blowing less) as soon as he started to run. The conditions were gusty and only short straight in cycles. Which brings me to the next issue to consider. The stronger the conditions are the more you have to be picky about the cycle you launch into. If you have to struggle to have the glider under your control, it’ not a launch cycle. That is especially true with slot launches.
That being said the cycle Bacil picked to launch into looked good. I did not see anything that warrants aborting the launch. If it was a negative gust he would have pushed right through it. So was he too anxious from past incidents?
Which brings me to the next issue. Pilots being too anxious to fly the current conditions. Why would a pilot be too anxious to fly the conditions? Not being current enough, conditions too much for him and past incidents. I propose that in Bacil’s case it could well be past incidents. How do you get over that? One good way is to go to a place like the Point of the Mountain where you can land on top and do many launches and landings back to back. May seem like an expensive way to solve the anxiety but much cheaper than a trip to the hospital. Plus it is a lot of fun.
I am not saying that you should not ever fly when you feel a little anxious. But one can be so anxious he won’t be thinking rational. Not a situation a pilot should be flying in.
Allan B.
What I propose is that he hit a negative gust (wind blowing then suddenly blowing less) as soon as he started to run. The conditions were gusty and only short straight in cycles. Which brings me to the next issue to consider. The stronger the conditions are the more you have to be picky about the cycle you launch into. If you have to struggle to have the glider under your control, it’ not a launch cycle. That is especially true with slot launches.
That being said the cycle Bacil picked to launch into looked good. I did not see anything that warrants aborting the launch. If it was a negative gust he would have pushed right through it. So was he too anxious from past incidents?
Which brings me to the next issue. Pilots being too anxious to fly the current conditions. Why would a pilot be too anxious to fly the conditions? Not being current enough, conditions too much for him and past incidents. I propose that in Bacil’s case it could well be past incidents. How do you get over that? One good way is to go to a place like the Point of the Mountain where you can land on top and do many launches and landings back to back. May seem like an expensive way to solve the anxiety but much cheaper than a trip to the hospital. Plus it is a lot of fun.
I am not saying that you should not ever fly when you feel a little anxious. But one can be so anxious he won’t be thinking rational. Not a situation a pilot should be flying in.
Allan B.
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Glad you're okay Bacil! Sucks to lose a glider.
I had a case at Ellenville where I started to run, didn't feel the glider lift for whatever reason (it was fine conditions, probably all me), and aborted the launch by a deliberate bellyflop that took out a downtube. Sometimes you don't know what's going on and don't have time for anything but a quick decision to abort and minimize the damage.
Allen's right that strong conditions with a cross in a slot launch has a good chance at nailing you. I think we all probably got away with too much as new H3s and now we're old enough that the occasional glider carnage might finally sink in and teach us that 99.5% success is not good enough. But it's so tempting...
I had a case at Ellenville where I started to run, didn't feel the glider lift for whatever reason (it was fine conditions, probably all me), and aborted the launch by a deliberate bellyflop that took out a downtube. Sometimes you don't know what's going on and don't have time for anything but a quick decision to abort and minimize the damage.
Allen's right that strong conditions with a cross in a slot launch has a good chance at nailing you. I think we all probably got away with too much as new H3s and now we're old enough that the occasional glider carnage might finally sink in and teach us that 99.5% success is not good enough. But it's so tempting...
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Knut, Anthony, and Bari thanks for your concern. Allan and Brian thanks for your input(s). Both of you are spot on in your observations. I had a flashback to 1/20/2018. Gotta erase that memory, plain and simple, step 1. And take into account if an ABORT is really an option from your staging position for the particular launch you are attempting a takeoff from. Lots of What Ifs. Bacil
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Been out of the loop due to work... Very sorry to hear about your launch accident Bacil, glad you are ok! You've been flying since.... So what did you decide? Glider repair, or a new wing? If the latter, any pics? 
Re: Accident Report 4/23/21
Quick glider repair. Steve had saved the keel from the 1st S2 I had that had been totalled from the 3/4/2017 launch accident at Woodstock. So it was a cheap and quick repair job. Dropped the glider off at Blue Sky Sunday 4/25. Steve repaired the glider by noon Tuesday 4/27. Picked up the glider Wednesday 4/28. Went back to Elizabethville Sunday 5/2 and did it right. Had a great launch and subsequent flight and landing. Bacil