It appears that the Iraq war may be the most expensive in sixty years. Found this in the news today.
"Operations costs in Iraq are estimated at 5.6 billion per month in 2005, while the average costs of U.S. operations in Vietnam was $5.1 billion per month, adjusting for inflation. IN current dollars, the Vietnam War cost $600 billion. "
Just think, if we keep this going for ten years we can double our national debt to something in the order of 14 trillion dollars. Now if we could just convince all those who voted for the Bush crowd to donate $100 a month to pay for the war we could cut down the impact on the debt. Maybe the donations could come from the faith based inititative. Of course there is that nasty thing about all the people getting killed, but that is another issue.
See how much better off we are with the conservative republicans running everything.
Joe
Iraq $ costs
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Iraq $ costs
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Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
let me try again
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garyDevan
Pretty bizarre...Flying Lobster wrote:I agree, Sparky.
In fact, why don't we call it the "bleeding-heart-liberal-leftist-Clintinoid-media in bed with Al Queda--demagogue-Democrat-Welfare-supporting-black and minority subsidy loving-who the rest of us would just as soon see drop dead" Forum?
marc
Perhaps "Political Rant" doesn't quite capture the essence of what has evolved here ...
.
... offal govment notice from the department of BS...
mr. markemX has been taken to the time-out corner (you know, that corner of cuba we own) and will be being held incommuniqaeda.
cheers, jeers and personal attacks may commence...but please, no blame games (at least not til we get our own shots in).
... offal govment notice from the department of BS...
mr. markemX has been taken to the time-out corner (you know, that corner of cuba we own) and will be being held incommuniqaeda.
cheers, jeers and personal attacks may commence...but please, no blame games (at least not til we get our own shots in).
garyDevan
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Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
Actually, you really are right!Spark wrote:Pretty bizarre...Flying Lobster wrote:I agree, Sparky.
In fact, why don't we call it the "bleeding-heart-liberal-leftist-Clintinoid-media in bed with Al Queda--demagogue-Democrat-Welfare-supporting-black and minority subsidy loving-who the rest of us would just as soon see drop dead" Forum?
marc
Perhaps "Political Rant" doesn't quite capture the essence of what has evolved here ...
We are political and we are VERY upset with the way things are going down in our country today. The conservatives would just as soon we be dead fish and go with the flow or be coppertops that are completely inured by the system.
marc
Great Googly-moo!
.
quite bizarre...indeed, sometimes it's hard to figure out where a particular 'shoe fits'. i mean, is the foot hairy and smelly with fungal infections under the nails...or manicured...or manicured and still smelly?
where does it fit? left foot ? right foot? mouth? (metaphor fell apart there, but then sometimes i'm just shiftless and lazy or lazy and shiftless but aspiring to a fast shuffle)
peace and love
quite bizarre...indeed, sometimes it's hard to figure out where a particular 'shoe fits'. i mean, is the foot hairy and smelly with fungal infections under the nails...or manicured...or manicured and still smelly?
where does it fit? left foot ? right foot? mouth? (metaphor fell apart there, but then sometimes i'm just shiftless and lazy or lazy and shiftless but aspiring to a fast shuffle)
peace and love
garyDevan
sparky,Spark wrote:
Pretty bizarre...
Perhaps "Political Rant" doesn't quite capture the essence of what has evolved here ...
i'll try to play it 'straight' here...i DO hear what you're saying, honestly.
but...have ya 'watched the news lately'? , honestly. (no disrespect intended here).
it's just that, for me, sometimes life strikes me as 'too serious to be taken seriously'...or one can't take it seriously enough!. yeah... i confuse even myself, but if things, for me, start to appear too clear or black and white...well, i worry and squint my eyes and try to see the gray and the fuzzy. it may be that psychotic take on things that you're seeing (and NO, there's been no official diagnosis!). sorry if i seemed bizarre or intense (hell,
admittedly even scary) at times. garyp.s. see, there's the too serious thingy
garyDevan
.
sparky,
while we're sharing here (joke).
one of my favorite authors has been tom robbins ('even cowgirls get the blues', 'last roadside attraction', 'half asleep in frog pajamas', 'fierce invalids home from hot climates'...see where i'm going?)...he shares some of the blame for my condition along with the likes of john stewart and kurt vonnegut. (ya know... just in case you would be interested in warping your own mind). kidding! just kidding. ('typical liberal', eh - not taking responsibility for his own actions )
btw (in the interests of full disclosure) - 'don't think you know me, but i personally admire that you are able to, and that you do , share the sport with earthlings via your tandem flying capabilities. not kissing up, i just think it's a cool thing to do and thought i would say so. gary
p.s. if anyone would ever fear my being on their wing, why...i guess i would, ya know, push them off the cliff ...just to show them JUST how wrong they were.
sparky,
while we're sharing here (joke).
one of my favorite authors has been tom robbins ('even cowgirls get the blues', 'last roadside attraction', 'half asleep in frog pajamas', 'fierce invalids home from hot climates'...see where i'm going?)...he shares some of the blame for my condition along with the likes of john stewart and kurt vonnegut. (ya know... just in case you would be interested in warping your own mind). kidding! just kidding.
('typical liberal', eh - not taking responsibility for his own actions )btw (in the interests of full disclosure) - 'don't think you know me, but i personally admire that you are able to, and that you do , share the sport with earthlings via your tandem flying capabilities. not kissing up, i just think it's a cool thing to do and thought i would say so. gary
p.s. if anyone would ever fear my being on their wing, why...i guess i would, ya know, push them off the cliff ...just to show them JUST how wrong they were.
garyDevan
Response to Marc & Joe; & Korea
Marc,
I love your suggestion: << In fact, why don't we call it the "bleeding-heart-liberal-leftist-Clintinoid-media in bed with Al Queda--demagogue-Democrat-Welfare-supporting-black and minority subsidy loving-who the rest of us would just as soon see drop dead" Forum? >> That's the funniest thing you have written so far !!! It goes way beyond bizarre. It's priceless.
Joe,
I find it hard to imagine that the cost of having 140,000 troops in the theater in Iraq is costing more than have 500,000 troops in Nam. But of course, your report mentions an "average" monthly cost, so during the heaviest action in Nam, the costs may have been much higher than 5.1 billion, perhaps 7.5 billion per month or more, as opposed to the early and late years where the costs were probably been much less, say 2.5 billion per month or so. It might be more useful, for comparative reasons, to see the monthly costs broken down on a year by year basis from Nam. But I doubt your article went into this much detail since this kind of info would contradict the premise of the "news report" that Iraq is costlier than Nam.
Also worth mentioning is that soldiers are better paid now than back in the 60's and 70's. And we incur more high tech costs, such as satellite usage, drones, and communications, which helps to save lives.
As for paying the extra $100 per person, I wouldn't mind doing this if SPENDING were to be curtailed first. But if we just throw money at the problem, the spending will continue to increase, so we gotta to stop feeding the fire by drawing the line on spending. Whichever party discovers "fiscal responsibility" first will have a much better chance of winning the next few elections. I'm for the Balanced Budget Amendment. A Third Party candidate could garner many votes if he runs on a Balanced Budget platform.
I do agree that things are going well with the Repubiicans in charge.
4 Million new jobs in the past two years,....more people working now than at any time in our history,....unemployment at 5%......economic growth at greater than 3 %,.....taking the offensive on the war on terror...revenues to the treasury at an alltime high. Who was it who said " It's the economy, Stupid". Not perfect. but pretty good.
And now we'll get a few more conservatives on the Supreme Court to clean up that institution as well.
I would definitely vote for Bush again, without hesitation.
Marco
PS: Joe, I think that Korean dictator Kim must have been reading our discussion on pre-emptive nuclear attacks, and decided to get rid of their nuclear weapons programs rather than risk being nuked pre-emptively. LOL. See, we pilots ARE solving the problems of the world !!! Peace thru strength continues to be a winner.
I love your suggestion: << In fact, why don't we call it the "bleeding-heart-liberal-leftist-Clintinoid-media in bed with Al Queda--demagogue-Democrat-Welfare-supporting-black and minority subsidy loving-who the rest of us would just as soon see drop dead" Forum? >> That's the funniest thing you have written so far !!! It goes way beyond bizarre. It's priceless.
Joe,
I find it hard to imagine that the cost of having 140,000 troops in the theater in Iraq is costing more than have 500,000 troops in Nam. But of course, your report mentions an "average" monthly cost, so during the heaviest action in Nam, the costs may have been much higher than 5.1 billion, perhaps 7.5 billion per month or more, as opposed to the early and late years where the costs were probably been much less, say 2.5 billion per month or so. It might be more useful, for comparative reasons, to see the monthly costs broken down on a year by year basis from Nam. But I doubt your article went into this much detail since this kind of info would contradict the premise of the "news report" that Iraq is costlier than Nam.
Also worth mentioning is that soldiers are better paid now than back in the 60's and 70's. And we incur more high tech costs, such as satellite usage, drones, and communications, which helps to save lives.
As for paying the extra $100 per person, I wouldn't mind doing this if SPENDING were to be curtailed first. But if we just throw money at the problem, the spending will continue to increase, so we gotta to stop feeding the fire by drawing the line on spending. Whichever party discovers "fiscal responsibility" first will have a much better chance of winning the next few elections. I'm for the Balanced Budget Amendment. A Third Party candidate could garner many votes if he runs on a Balanced Budget platform.
I do agree that things are going well with the Repubiicans in charge.
4 Million new jobs in the past two years,....more people working now than at any time in our history,....unemployment at 5%......economic growth at greater than 3 %,.....taking the offensive on the war on terror...revenues to the treasury at an alltime high. Who was it who said " It's the economy, Stupid". Not perfect. but pretty good.
And now we'll get a few more conservatives on the Supreme Court to clean up that institution as well.
I would definitely vote for Bush again, without hesitation.
Marco
PS: Joe, I think that Korean dictator Kim must have been reading our discussion on pre-emptive nuclear attacks, and decided to get rid of their nuclear weapons programs rather than risk being nuked pre-emptively. LOL. See, we pilots ARE solving the problems of the world !!! Peace thru strength continues to be a winner.
Iraq $ costs
OK, maybe we should have a political rant forum and a separate
general forum. I personally have found the political discussion
stimulating. If it doesn't cost anything, let's label it for what it
is and still have a place for non-political general stuff that
doesn't fit on the HG and PG fora. - Hugh
On 22 Sep 2005, at 06:59, Spark wrote:
>
> Hey, I have an idea ...
>
> Let's change the name of this forum to the "Political Rant
> Forum". I'm thinking the name "General Forum" just doesn't fit
> anymore.
>
> [Rolling Eyes]'Spark
> 301-462-8320
> http://community.webshots.com/user/sparkozoid
>
general forum. I personally have found the political discussion
stimulating. If it doesn't cost anything, let's label it for what it
is and still have a place for non-political general stuff that
doesn't fit on the HG and PG fora. - Hugh
On 22 Sep 2005, at 06:59, Spark wrote:
>
> Hey, I have an idea ...
>
> Let's change the name of this forum to the "Political Rant
> Forum". I'm thinking the name "General Forum" just doesn't fit
> anymore.
>
> [Rolling Eyes]'Spark
> 301-462-8320
> http://community.webshots.com/user/sparkozoid
>
New Political Rant Section
I agree with Hugh (again)
Marco
Marco
Think about how the Republicans are financing the Iraq war and hurricane damage here in the USA. We are borrowing money from China, The Saudias and others. In effect we are giving them big IOUs that they are going to call some time. If we had the integrety to pay for the war and rebuilding of our own country we would not be putting our future in their hands.
If we had placed a dollar a gallon tax on gas at the beginning we would be paying for our war, cutting oil use significantly and getting people to invest in alternative energy sources. But no we are giving all that money in the form of expensive oil to the countries who have all the oil. Friends like Iran, Iraq, and others.
Don't you feel so much better off with the republican fiscal policy?
Joe
If we had placed a dollar a gallon tax on gas at the beginning we would be paying for our war, cutting oil use significantly and getting people to invest in alternative energy sources. But no we are giving all that money in the form of expensive oil to the countries who have all the oil. Friends like Iran, Iraq, and others.
Don't you feel so much better off with the republican fiscal policy?
Joe
Let's Increase domestic oil production
I think Joe argues well for the drilling of domestic oil reserves. We have oil off the Pacific Coast, off of Florida, and in Alaska, but the "greenies" go beserk if we attempt to tap them.
I would much prefer to be paying for 100% domestic oil, and thereby keeping all of those petro-dollars here stateside, than sending them to the Middle East.
So, who's with me? Let's build those rigs offshore in California and Florida, and in ANWAR. Stop selling our Alaskan oil to Japan. I would rather pay Mexico, Cananda, and Venezuala for their oil than to import it from the middle east. But lets maximize our domestic oil reserves first.
Marco
I would much prefer to be paying for 100% domestic oil, and thereby keeping all of those petro-dollars here stateside, than sending them to the Middle East.
So, who's with me? Let's build those rigs offshore in California and Florida, and in ANWAR. Stop selling our Alaskan oil to Japan. I would rather pay Mexico, Cananda, and Venezuala for their oil than to import it from the middle east. But lets maximize our domestic oil reserves first.
Marco
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Flying Lobster
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:17 pm
Got some bad news for ya Marco. Total known economically-recoverable reserves in the lower forty-eight is a mere drop in the bucket, if that, compared to the annual US oil consumption needs. Even if ANWR is opened up, that would be just a momentary blip and still could not hope to significantly supplant foreign imports.
marcoHillaryDeLay
president; Hydrocarbons for Peace and Justice
marcoHillaryDeLay
president; Hydrocarbons for Peace and Justice
Great Googly-moo!
Iraq $ costs
As Mark F. pointed out, lower 48 and even ANWR oil reserves are puny
compared to our demand. Machs nicht if we sell Alaskan oil to Japan
- it all goes into a global market. That's why price was going up
even before Katrina/Rita - China and India are rapidly
industrializing and are adopting the automobile in large numbers.
Most Middle East oil goes to Europe and Japan; most Venezuela,
Mexico, Canada oil already comes here. Venezuela is only marginally
better than an Arab country these days...
Tax gas to $6/gal or more like in Europe (gradually, so people/car
companies have a chance to adapt to the economic signals being sent
them) and build nuke power plants to a standard design like the
French did. (No greenhouse gases - and no hang-glider macerating
windmills on ridges!) - Hugh
On 28 Sep 2005, at 23:11, Marco Zee wrote:
>
> I think Joe argues well for the drilling of domestic oil reserves.
> We have oil off the Pacific Coast, off of Florida, and in Alaska,
> but the "greenies" go beserk if we attempt to tap them.
>
> I would much prefer to be paying for 100% domestic oil, and thereby
> keeping all of those petro-dollars here stateside, than sending
> them to the Middle East.
>
> So, who's with me? Let's build those rigs offshore in California
> and Florida, and in ANWAR. Stop selling our Alaskan oil to Japan.
> I would rather pay Mexico, Cananda, and Venezuala for their oil
> than to import it from the middle east. But lets maximize our
> domestic oil reserves first.
>
> Marco
>
compared to our demand. Machs nicht if we sell Alaskan oil to Japan
- it all goes into a global market. That's why price was going up
even before Katrina/Rita - China and India are rapidly
industrializing and are adopting the automobile in large numbers.
Most Middle East oil goes to Europe and Japan; most Venezuela,
Mexico, Canada oil already comes here. Venezuela is only marginally
better than an Arab country these days...
Tax gas to $6/gal or more like in Europe (gradually, so people/car
companies have a chance to adapt to the economic signals being sent
them) and build nuke power plants to a standard design like the
French did. (No greenhouse gases - and no hang-glider macerating
windmills on ridges!) - Hugh
On 28 Sep 2005, at 23:11, Marco Zee wrote:
>
> I think Joe argues well for the drilling of domestic oil reserves.
> We have oil off the Pacific Coast, off of Florida, and in Alaska,
> but the "greenies" go beserk if we attempt to tap them.
>
> I would much prefer to be paying for 100% domestic oil, and thereby
> keeping all of those petro-dollars here stateside, than sending
> them to the Middle East.
>
> So, who's with me? Let's build those rigs offshore in California
> and Florida, and in ANWAR. Stop selling our Alaskan oil to Japan.
> I would rather pay Mexico, Cananda, and Venezuala for their oil
> than to import it from the middle east. But lets maximize our
> domestic oil reserves first.
>
> Marco
>
Marc,
Don't we sell like 1 million barrels a day of Alaskan oil to Japan, as an offset to the trade deficit we have with them? That's my understanding.
Also, you mentioned "known" reserves.....if we were to explore these places more thoroughly, it would certainly be possible to discover additional oil fields. I don't see any reason not to attempt to maximize our own domestic oil production......like I said, keep those petrodollars here at home, or at least in this hemisphere.
Marco
Don't we sell like 1 million barrels a day of Alaskan oil to Japan, as an offset to the trade deficit we have with them? That's my understanding.
Also, you mentioned "known" reserves.....if we were to explore these places more thoroughly, it would certainly be possible to discover additional oil fields. I don't see any reason not to attempt to maximize our own domestic oil production......like I said, keep those petrodollars here at home, or at least in this hemisphere.
Marco
Iraq $ costs
Honest, I don't just set out to contradict everything you say, Marco,
but another approach would be to go ahead and pump out all the
foreign oil and hoard our own against the day when it gets even
scarcer and we need it even more... Right now, the market is guided
to some degree by pumpout costs. Canadian oil shale is economic to
exploit at current prices, but it still costs a dollar or less to
pump Saudi crude. - Hugh
On 29 Sep 2005, at 23:55, Marco Zee wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> Don't we sell like 1 million barrels a day of Alaskan oil to Japan,
> as an offset to the trade deficit we have with them? That's my
> understanding.
>
> Also, you mentioned "known" reserves.....if we were to explore
> these places more thoroughly, it would certainly be possible to
> discover additional oil fields. I don't see any reason not to
> attempt to maximize our own domestic oil production......like I
> said, keep those petrodollars here at home, or at least in this
> hemisphere.
>
> Marco
>
but another approach would be to go ahead and pump out all the
foreign oil and hoard our own against the day when it gets even
scarcer and we need it even more... Right now, the market is guided
to some degree by pumpout costs. Canadian oil shale is economic to
exploit at current prices, but it still costs a dollar or less to
pump Saudi crude. - Hugh
On 29 Sep 2005, at 23:55, Marco Zee wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> Don't we sell like 1 million barrels a day of Alaskan oil to Japan,
> as an offset to the trade deficit we have with them? That's my
> understanding.
>
> Also, you mentioned "known" reserves.....if we were to explore
> these places more thoroughly, it would certainly be possible to
> discover additional oil fields. I don't see any reason not to
> attempt to maximize our own domestic oil production......like I
> said, keep those petrodollars here at home, or at least in this
> hemisphere.
>
> Marco
>