Sunday incident

[dhenders]

Sunday at Bill's I launched in no wind and after a series of beginners mistakes stalled into the hill at launch. Had the nose too high..no air in wing...ran too slow..tried to save by jumping into glider and I met the hill. My neck was snapped pretty good and my shoulder went through my keel. All my fault.
I had come back to flying with certain expectations and I have not met them. I do not fly as much as I thought I would and I do not have the same desire I use to have. With that in mind I have listed my equipment as is on the marketplace list.

[brianvh]

Dave, Darn it, we'll miss you! I'm hoping you're sale of all equipment is just a sudden impulse to being scared by an accident, and will go away once you remember we all have accidents.

[Scott]

I agree with Brian. It's fine to take a break, but no need to say "never again." Holly was in the hospital for 10 days, and she's already flown again!

Scott

[Matthew]

Brian,

You really DUG yourself into a hole with that comment.

It's DON Henderson :)

No wait... I'm thinking of Don Henley. He flies and Eagle too or something like that.


Matthew

[brianvh]

Allright already, about 30 people have told me! But you see, Doug, we
know you and actually care (more about the name than the accident).

I once knew a Dave Henderson, in fact the only other Henderson I've ever
known other than Doug. I just thought "Henderson" and the 'Dave' came out
automatically.

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Matthew wrote:

>
> Brian,
>
> You really DUG yourself into a hole with that comment.
>
> It's DON Henderson
>
> No wait... I'm thinking of Don Henley. He flies and Eagle too or something like that.
>
>
> Matthew
>

[deveil]

At 10:51 AM -0400 9/13/05, dhenders wrote:
I had come back to flying with certain expectations and I have not met them. I do not fly as much as I thought I would and I do not have the same desire I use to have.


dave,
i don't know you, your history, or any thing of the incident that is referred to... your words may reflect only a temporary reaction, and you may get plenty of appropriate encouragement to continue.
having said that, it was the same reasoning that i myself used when i decided to hang it up after ~10 yrs., with a h4 rating(no incident, however).
i've looked back many times but i think the two things you mentioned are at the heart of the matter of personal safety. i applaud your forthright assertions and would encourage you to keep them at the forefront of your thinking as you may continue to reflect on the matter, whatever your ultimate decision may be.
with respect, gary devan (retired

[deveil]

dave,
i don't know you,
with respect, gary devan (retired

D-O-N !.
ah.....yeah......well....like, i, said. ( but the same goes for dave though, whoever he may be (unless this is really marC !.....is it you AGAIN! marC !??? )

[Lauren Tjaden]

In a message dated 9/13/2005 3:23:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sw@shadepine.com writes:

It's fine to take a break, but no need to say "never again."

????I like Doug, and always want to see someone stay in?our?most?special of?sports... but the decision to fly?must be a personal one. What was right for Holly may not be right for Doug, or for me, or for anyone else. Hang gliding is dangerous. Oh, we can say LIFE is dangerous, driving a car is dangerous, and that even getting out of bed is dangerous, but the facts are that hang gliding is a high risk sport.? Unlike getting out of bed.
????Sometimes,?hang gliding can be very forgiving -- you ground loop and stroll away, you brush your base tube on the ground at launch but fly away unscathed, you parachute down from 20 feet and land effortlessly -- but if the dice rolls the other way, any of these things can kill you. We all need to remember?to fly with a large margin of safety. If you have not foot launched in awhile, go practice at the training hill before you leap off of a mountain. And if you can only find time to fly twice a year -- well, maybe you should NOT be flying at all. At least not at altitude. It's not bowling.
?????Making sure we have a large margin of safety?means different things to all of us. For me, on my new comp glider, it means flying with a fin for now. It means?not pairing her up with my new Rotor harness until?I get perfect on my landings and approaches. It means that besides the fun stuff -- soaring in my wonder-machine (Paul cannot out climb me anymore; it is amazing what a very slick ship can do) --that I force myself to fly pattern tow after pattern tow, having my flying and approaches and landings in particular watched, videoed, and critiqued. ????At different times in my flying history,?having a margin of safety meant that I could not tow in midday conditions, or that I needed to give up on an XC flight at 500 feet more altitude than a more experienced pilot. Obviously the list is endless. And obviously I have? made errors in my own judgement. It seems inevitable -- because we are human, we sometimes err.
????My reminder is this: Enjoy this gift of flight, enjoy your life. But I would add?the caveat to fly as safely as possible. If you feel that you cannot fly with relative safety, then don't. I would prefer to quit crossing off names in my address book.
????None of this is aimed at Doug. I don't know his circumstances. My impression is that he has been a good, safe, pilot. God knows I don't want to beat someone up further who has just wrecked. I sure felt like hell after my wreck without help from anyone else. But?Doug's decision of whether the benefits of flying outweigh the risks must be his alone. His judgement of what happened, and if he can reasonably fly and expect that the same thing might not occur are entirely his own.

???????With love,
Lauren

__________________________________________________
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[deveil]

.
dave....don.....doug.....dahellwithit......sentiments the same...........

At 10:51 AM -0400 9/13/05, dhenders wrote:
I had come back to flying with certain expectations and I have not met them. I do not fly as much as I thought I would and I do not have the same desire I use to have.


dave,
i don't know you, your history, or any thing of the incident that is referred to... your words may reflect only a temporary reaction, and you may get plenty of appropriate encouragement to continue.
having said that, it was the same reasoning that i myself used when i decided to hang it up after ~10 yrs., with a h4 rating(no incident, however).
i've looked back many times but i think the two things you mentioned are at the heart of the matter of personal safety. i applaud your forthright assertions and would encourage you to keep them at the forefront of your thinking as you may continue to reflect on the matter, whatever your ultimate decision may be.
with respect, gary devan (retired

[hang_pilot]

Lauren wrote:
If you feel that you cannot fly with relative safety, then don't.

Daniel adds:
...and please consider a different way to free-fly, one that might
better match your abilities, constraints and risk tolerance.

*Limitations on when and where you fly
*Paragliding
*Aerotowed weight shift with wheeled landing
*Aerotowed stick controlled craft
*Aerotowed tandems
*etc., etc.

...and if a person still decides to give up free flying, please continue
to be a part of our community!

~Daniel



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[Spark]

Lauren wrote:
If you feel that you cannot fly with relative safety, then don't.

Daniel adds:
...and please consider a different way to free-fly, one that might
better match your abilities, constraints and risk tolerance.

Spark interjects:

Doug, I'm sure happy that you are OK. I'm thinking about when you first learned to fly. I remember it very well, because I met you at the training hill, on the first day that I really flew a hang glider. That was in 1976. I recall that you had some awesome flights over a periiod of 10 or 12 years of active flying at some damn good flying sites. I can remember some great times flying with you. Good airtime. Precious Time.

I sometimes wonder: how much airtime is enough?
Do I really have this "Risk Tolerance" vs. "Relative Safety" thing figured out?

These are important questions to consider. Each of us will have a different answer. Unfortunately, occasionally, some of us will be wrong.

Long ago, someone wrote: "I have seen all the works that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and pursuit of the wind. "

[Scott]

I've said it before and I'll repeat it: when I actively pursue one sport only, it's only a matter of time before I begin pushing my safety envelope. I think this is a natural result (for anyone) of becoming more skilled and experienced over time. It just happens.

I avoid getting close to (or going beyond) my limits by pursuing multiple sports concurrently. Each different sport acts as a "governor" on the others. Because it's such a refreshing, rewarding experience to be doing something different, I never get bored with any one...or feel the need to push one closer to the edge.

Some may say I'm a "jack of all trades, master of none." That's fine with me!

Scott

PS - So I guess you could say that's a plug for (amongst other things) being biwingual! (I'm not yet, but who knows? Maybe someday...)

[markc]

Hi Doug,

I'd like to add my voice to those who counsel patience as
you decide if/whether/how to continue flying in some way.

Currency is huge. If you can't get out to fly, and if you
later can't get out to a training hill to knock
off the rust, then the risk level simply goes way up. If you can
arrange your life in such a way that you can get out to the
hill more often, and out flying more often.... well, maybe
you would feel better about this whole incident, and it can
be a positive lesson-learned?

But if not, consider aero-towing : There are still currency
needs (of course), and risks . But perhaps the easier access to
the air would fit better with the time that you can allot to flying?

And then there's trying new things altogether, as others
have suggested : PG ; sailplanes ; ultralight sailplanes;
ultralights; etc.

If it really is time to hang it up, well, so be it... But I just hope
you'll take time to consider all the alternatives available to you.

Hope your scrapes and bruises heal up fast Doug!

--mark

PS: Come on out to the Fly-In this weekend. Have a few brews!
Have some non-flying fun, it'll do you good!

[hepcat1989]

Don, Bill's hill has thrown curve balls at many pilots.The launch can be tricky, it can be a non issue.When one gets off launch, the flight and landing can be tricky- not very high, and alot of trees to cross!The landing zone is kind of all over the place- rolling, dipping.We consider it the one to go to fly your first mountain site!!!!!I am sure you have tons of experience and skills.Bill's hill I say again has bit other pilots in the ass! I hope you can just come out to Smithsburg this training season and fly someones beginner glider. Light the spark again. I don't know you yet, but you can borrow mine!! Don't give up man,you are still breathing oxygen, and I am sure you like to get up! Hang in there man, and give it some reflection!
Shawn.

[Richard Hays]

Let me add to the fray with my own personal experiences. Now...I don't know
what type of glider you're flying but...let me share my thoughts with you.

Long, long ago I used to fly all the time. I was young, lean ( believe it or
not ) and did nothing but fly, fly, fly. I flew the latest hot ships and
flew xc every chance I got. But then life got in the way. I began focusing
on teaching hanggliding more and running my school as a business moreso than
in the past. That took away personal flying time. Then I had a house built
and had to do alot of the misc. stuff myself. That took away time. Then I
changed my primary money making career and had to devote time to it. That
took away flying time. Then the killer was getting married and having a kid.
That sunk my ship. LOL. I was no longer out there all the time...unless it
was training related. I

I found myself working two careers, raising a kid, and maintaining a house
on 10 acres of land. In other words....airtime became virtually
non-existant. Additionally...middle age set in and I found myself slower and
much, much heavier. All played on my abilities to fly safety. But I still
yearned to fly. But flying was becoming more difficult and safety was
becoming an issue.

Subsequently I had to make some tough, ego related decisions. I realized
that trying to fly a hot ship with little or no frequent airtime was an
accident waiting to happen. So...I stepped down to a Falcon. I chose to
pick easy days to fly vs. scary days to fly. I gave up the notion that I
could be top-o-the stack pack and just focused on flying as fun.

What I've found is that flying from a training hill is fun....and good for
you. Flying on low stress days in the mountians is fun and every bit the joy
and challenge on a different level than anything was before. The ego part
is tough. But knowing ones' limitations and coming to terms with them can be
done.

Life is balance. Flying is balance. You can keep flying in your life if
you just fly smart. Pick smooth wind days and easy to fly gliders, and
don't take chances like doing no-wind launches or high wind launches. Know
your limits and keep a positive outlook on what you still can do.

I don't care what level of flying your doing; hanggliding is still amazing.
Whether its' running off a training hill or soaring a dune in Cape Cod, or
thermalling over the Blue Ridge, the sport is incredible at any level.
August 2006 will mark my 30th year flying hanggliders. I hope I get 30 more.

Hanggliding is a celebration of life. Let your spirit soar.


Richard Hays
MSHG, Inc.



>From: "markc" <markc@chgpa.org>
>Reply-To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
>To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
>Subject: Sunday incident
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:37:38 -0400
>
>Hi Doug,
>
>I'd like to add my voice to those who counsel patience as
>you decide if/whether/how to continue flying in some way.
>
>Currency is huge. If you can't get out to fly, and if you
>later can't get out to a training hill to knock
>off the rust, then the risk level simply goes way up. If you can
>arrange your life in such a way that you can get out to the
>hill more often, and out flying more often.... well, maybe
>you would feel better about this whole incident, and it can
>be a positive lesson-learned?
>
>But if not, consider aero-towing : There are still currency
>needs (of course), and risks . But perhaps the easier access to
>the air would fit better with the time that you can allot to flying?
>
>And then there's trying new things altogether, as others
>have suggested : PG ; sailplanes ; ultralight sailplanes;
>ultralights; etc.
>
>If it really is time to hang it up, well, so be it... But I just hope
>you'll take time to consider all the alternatives available to you.
>
>Hope your scrapes and bruises heal up fast Doug!
>
>--mark
>
>PS: Come on out to the Fly-In this weekend. Have a few brews!
>Have some non-flying fun, it'll do you good!

[deveil]

....let me share my thoughts with you.

(offered admiringly) amen to all what he said...
the dude is not only handsome, but eloquent as well.
but you all probably already knew that.

[theflyingdude]

Doug, glad to hear you survived your mishap mostly intact. You may feel differently about giving it up after you've had some time to reflect, but best of luck no matter what you decide.

I don't know anything about your accident other than what you wrote and this isn't meant as a criticism of your flying abilities or judgement, but I remember a brief discussion you and I had at Bill's Hill last Monday on Labor Day. You were hooked in and standing on launch several feet back from the edge of the slope. It was a day without much wind and I suggested you might be better off moving forward and running down the hill, rather than trying to start your launch on the flat portion behind the slope. You chose not to take my advice and your launch that day worked out ok, although you did end up pretty deep in the slot before the glider flew away.

The problem with starting back on the flat portion of a launch is the sudden change in AOA as one reaches the edge of the slope, especially if the glider isn't supporting your weight at that point. That can cause a stall if you don't pull in and continue running down the hill. I've seen more than one person stuff a launch in this type of scenario.

Again, I don't know whether this had anything to do with your recent accident, but it might be something to consider. In the meantime, I'm sure the boys swimming and basketball will keep you busy.

Peace,

JR

[dhenders]

It did indeed have something to do with the incident. I should have been closer to the slope and had a correct aoa. Your observation is and was correct. No umbrage taken.

[Matthew]

Speaking of which, we need to do another clean-up at Bill's. I've been told that the jagger bushes have grown all the way up the top of the launch slot. Thus, if you're going to Bill's, please bring weed whackers, rakes, machetes and other instruments of destruction. It should only take about 90 minutes with 10 or so people hacking back the jagger bushes to re-clear the slot.

Matthew

[Scott]

Since I'm on a roll, I might head up to Bill's Friday morning and wail away on it with the "death blade" attached to the weed trimmer. That thing will slice through small trees like OddJob's hat!

Scott

[brianvh]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Scott wrote:
>
> Since I'm on a roll, I might head up to Bill's Friday morning and wail away on it with the "death blade" attached to the weed trimmer. [Twisted Evil] That thing will slice through small trees like OddJob's hat!
>
> Scott
>

Scott: long pants, tough long sleeved shirt, work gloves, and a hat are
all highly recommended. The Bill's Briar Bushes should not be taken lightly.
Also be aware that you may stir up a nest or two of hornets. If I
didn't have a meeting that afternoon I'd come out to support you. Our
thoughts and fond prayers for survival go with you.

-Brian.

[dhenders]

I have a video of my botched launch but do not knowhow to link it to the listserv.