Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
It is devoutly to be wished that Highland continue as is with a professional tow pilot. We have been really spoiled with this high-class dedicated full-service outfit in a friendly location.
But in other places with even less density of pilots, no mountains - people still find ways to get in the air. There is a club model (CHGPA itself or a separate entity) which owns the tug, carts; pays the hangar rent, maintenance, fuel. No one gets paid (but professional aircraft maintenance). You have a stable of volunteer tug pilots (I'm a volunteer, with the hours, taildragger time etc - but not a full-time candidate - and acknowledging Rooney's caveat that it takes some time to get good) that can come out on likely days/weekends. This would require some pilots to pony up significant cash up front to buy a tug and carts, tandems, the works - also someone with the right skills to keep the books. Would Highland consider payment for the assets over any period of time? Established sailplane clubs actually have the costs identified well-enough to charge rational tow and glider rental fees (yup, club gliders, potentially already set up in a hangar!), dues and an initiation fee that somehow reflects the capital investment. The club can then have a loan subscription to buy a new item (say an ATOS) and pay back the lenders out of revenue. You have to have reserves set up for maintenance and potential equipment damage (I think you can now get hull insurance on the Dragonfly...). This could lower the overall cost of flying, if you didn't have to have all your own gear. Could consider a different venue - including on the other side of DC/Baltimore - and deployments to events.
Would Sunny and Adam go cold turkey, or are there functions (say...instructing) that they would continue?
There's a Dragonfly and cart at Massey, 20 miles north of Ridgely. I think it (the Dragonfly) is privately owned - the pilot sometimes helps out at the ECC? I think we have noticed a difference in the quality of the tows - but I don't say he was unsafe. (Luxury of 912/914-powered tugs vs 582?) Nice grass. Alternative to Ridgely as a venue?
Virginia Hang-gliding at Melfa 50 miles south of Ridgely is a tandem-only operation. The tandem pilot partner is full-time half-year; the tug pilot is a college professor/partner in the business. They bought the field.
There are some light sport pilots on the Delmarva - maybe could recruit a couple to become Dragonfly pilots?
Let's start giving Blue Sky some love.
Thoughts? - Hugh
But in other places with even less density of pilots, no mountains - people still find ways to get in the air. There is a club model (CHGPA itself or a separate entity) which owns the tug, carts; pays the hangar rent, maintenance, fuel. No one gets paid (but professional aircraft maintenance). You have a stable of volunteer tug pilots (I'm a volunteer, with the hours, taildragger time etc - but not a full-time candidate - and acknowledging Rooney's caveat that it takes some time to get good) that can come out on likely days/weekends. This would require some pilots to pony up significant cash up front to buy a tug and carts, tandems, the works - also someone with the right skills to keep the books. Would Highland consider payment for the assets over any period of time? Established sailplane clubs actually have the costs identified well-enough to charge rational tow and glider rental fees (yup, club gliders, potentially already set up in a hangar!), dues and an initiation fee that somehow reflects the capital investment. The club can then have a loan subscription to buy a new item (say an ATOS) and pay back the lenders out of revenue. You have to have reserves set up for maintenance and potential equipment damage (I think you can now get hull insurance on the Dragonfly...). This could lower the overall cost of flying, if you didn't have to have all your own gear. Could consider a different venue - including on the other side of DC/Baltimore - and deployments to events.
Would Sunny and Adam go cold turkey, or are there functions (say...instructing) that they would continue?
There's a Dragonfly and cart at Massey, 20 miles north of Ridgely. I think it (the Dragonfly) is privately owned - the pilot sometimes helps out at the ECC? I think we have noticed a difference in the quality of the tows - but I don't say he was unsafe. (Luxury of 912/914-powered tugs vs 582?) Nice grass. Alternative to Ridgely as a venue?
Virginia Hang-gliding at Melfa 50 miles south of Ridgely is a tandem-only operation. The tandem pilot partner is full-time half-year; the tug pilot is a college professor/partner in the business. They bought the field.
There are some light sport pilots on the Delmarva - maybe could recruit a couple to become Dragonfly pilots?
Let's start giving Blue Sky some love.
Thoughts? - Hugh
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
Just signed up for Quest Air Open in May.
Could be wrong, but seems like ECC is on thin ice... .
Have a new/used HG car/SUV and possible retrieve driver lined up at Quest.
Knut
Could be wrong, but seems like ECC is on thin ice... .
Have a new/used HG car/SUV and possible retrieve driver lined up at Quest.
Knut
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
I strongly urge anyone seriously thinking of flying the Dragonfly as an occasional club tug-pilot to contact Jim and Adam and have a long conversation with them on the subject.
The Dragonfly may have two wing, a tail, and 3-axis controls. But, it is still a unique beast. Close enough to being a GA airplane to suck you in; far enough away to give you a nasty surprise if your not on your game. It's not crazy, but I wouldn't describe it as docile, either. Excellent stick and rudder skills together with a high level of currency should be the call of the day if you want to avoid bending stuff shouldn't be bent. And then there is the towing aspect...
Believe me, I understand the angst. Highland IS my only flying site. First thing I did when I saw the post was to fall off my chair reaching for the phone to extend an offer to drop hang gliding entirely and commit to flying as a weekend tug pilot until Adam and Sunny could figure something out. But make no mistake, this was a panic move. Even though I have flown a variety of airframes both fixed and rotor; even though I had once upon a time trained and tugged at Ridgely with the Dragonfly; the learning curve to get back into that particular saddle would have been, well, intensive. And in the end all I could have realistically hoped to accomplish any time soon would have been to get in good enough shape to pull up a highly experienced tandem pilot under benign conditions in the mornings and evenings.
That might have been enough to help Highland - short term. It would never serve for a club operation. Solo pilots want to get pulled up when it's soarable. Go figure. And THAT would require a whole 'nother level of tug pilot skills and experience - to be done safely over the long term.
We have been remarkably spoiled by the level of operations at Highland. They make it look much, much, much easier than it is. I hope for safety's sake that they can find a way to keep it going.
The Dragonfly may have two wing, a tail, and 3-axis controls. But, it is still a unique beast. Close enough to being a GA airplane to suck you in; far enough away to give you a nasty surprise if your not on your game. It's not crazy, but I wouldn't describe it as docile, either. Excellent stick and rudder skills together with a high level of currency should be the call of the day if you want to avoid bending stuff shouldn't be bent. And then there is the towing aspect...
Believe me, I understand the angst. Highland IS my only flying site. First thing I did when I saw the post was to fall off my chair reaching for the phone to extend an offer to drop hang gliding entirely and commit to flying as a weekend tug pilot until Adam and Sunny could figure something out. But make no mistake, this was a panic move. Even though I have flown a variety of airframes both fixed and rotor; even though I had once upon a time trained and tugged at Ridgely with the Dragonfly; the learning curve to get back into that particular saddle would have been, well, intensive. And in the end all I could have realistically hoped to accomplish any time soon would have been to get in good enough shape to pull up a highly experienced tandem pilot under benign conditions in the mornings and evenings.
That might have been enough to help Highland - short term. It would never serve for a club operation. Solo pilots want to get pulled up when it's soarable. Go figure. And THAT would require a whole 'nother level of tug pilot skills and experience - to be done safely over the long term.
We have been remarkably spoiled by the level of operations at Highland. They make it look much, much, much easier than it is. I hope for safety's sake that they can find a way to keep it going.
Joe G.
- silverwings
- Posts: 1243
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:29 pm
- Location: Bethesda, MD
- Contact:
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
I for one will be deeply disappointed if Highland Aerosports cannot remain operational!
john middleton (202)409-2574 c
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
Hi Joe.
Yeah, she's a squirrely little demon isn't she ?
But then, if it was easy then it wouldn't be fun would it? I do love flying that crazy little plane.
I got to fly a King Air with Rick once (thanks!!!)... he clued me into an old aviation truism... I was a bit hesitant about taking the yolk of such a beast when he said... The bigger they are, the easier they fly. True to his word, that thing cut through the air like butter... it was like flying a Cadillac.
Like many things in aviation, that was counter-intuitive. Like the higher you are, the safer you are. For more control, go faster. To prevent plummeting at the earth, point your nose at it. There's a lot of backwards things in aviation.
The dragonfly is the other side of the "bigger" coin. If the bigger they are, the easier they fly... then the smaller they are, the harder they fly. Now, it's just a rule of thumb... the dragonfly isn't impossible to learn... but it does catch a lot of GA guys out. "Oh, that little thing?"... "Yeah, I can fly that.. hold my beer, watch this". Fortunately there's (a lot of) guys like Joe out there too who "get it" and approach the dragonfly with the right mindset (lets see what this thing's gonna do).
There are some fantastic GA->TugPilot converts out there. It's a pre-requisite these days. But yeah, it's not an overnight process either. And yeah, as Zach puts it, it's a "perishable skill".
Let's get Windsor out of retirement
Jim
Yeah, she's a squirrely little demon isn't she ?
But then, if it was easy then it wouldn't be fun would it? I do love flying that crazy little plane.
I got to fly a King Air with Rick once (thanks!!!)... he clued me into an old aviation truism... I was a bit hesitant about taking the yolk of such a beast when he said... The bigger they are, the easier they fly. True to his word, that thing cut through the air like butter... it was like flying a Cadillac.
Like many things in aviation, that was counter-intuitive. Like the higher you are, the safer you are. For more control, go faster. To prevent plummeting at the earth, point your nose at it. There's a lot of backwards things in aviation.
The dragonfly is the other side of the "bigger" coin. If the bigger they are, the easier they fly... then the smaller they are, the harder they fly. Now, it's just a rule of thumb... the dragonfly isn't impossible to learn... but it does catch a lot of GA guys out. "Oh, that little thing?"... "Yeah, I can fly that.. hold my beer, watch this". Fortunately there's (a lot of) guys like Joe out there too who "get it" and approach the dragonfly with the right mindset (lets see what this thing's gonna do).
There are some fantastic GA->TugPilot converts out there. It's a pre-requisite these days. But yeah, it's not an overnight process either. And yeah, as Zach puts it, it's a "perishable skill".
Let's get Windsor out of retirement
Jim
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
Jim,
You made me remember, and laugh. Thanks.
Big to small. Yeah. Nothing like transitioning from E-3 to hang glider to put your world in perspective. Took me a long time to believe what little collection of wires, tubing, and cloth could actually do. ;-@
I find myself convinced that, in aviation, the fun-factor goes in inverse proportion to maximum gross weight. Biggest reason I never want to stop flying hang gliders.
You made me remember, and laugh. Thanks.
Big to small. Yeah. Nothing like transitioning from E-3 to hang glider to put your world in perspective. Took me a long time to believe what little collection of wires, tubing, and cloth could actually do. ;-@
I find myself convinced that, in aviation, the fun-factor goes in inverse proportion to maximum gross weight. Biggest reason I never want to stop flying hang gliders.
Joe G.
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
No real insight here... But wanted to highlight the membership/club model which seems to work in the sailplane world. If Sunny and Adam were to say "Paid members should absorb X% of tug/hangar/ maintenance/etc costs, tandems Y%", I think many solo pilots would buy into the portion that is "ours".
-
- Posts: 709
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:29 pm
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
Mark,
At this point the money thing is secondary; primarily they don't have a tug pilot. Then again everything counts in large amounts so if "large amounts" of $ materialize then perhaps a (highly) qualified tug pilot might find his/her way here?
And as it was pointed out, flying a Drag-n-fly from 7 am to 7 pm in the Summer is more demanding than flying a Pawnee.
Danny Brotto
At this point the money thing is secondary; primarily they don't have a tug pilot. Then again everything counts in large amounts so if "large amounts" of $ materialize then perhaps a (highly) qualified tug pilot might find his/her way here?
And as it was pointed out, flying a Drag-n-fly from 7 am to 7 pm in the Summer is more demanding than flying a Pawnee.
Danny Brotto
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
Yup, the "large amounts" was where I was going. If a club/membership model has the potential of bringing in more revenue, and/or more predictable revenue, then perhaps that would translate into helping attract a tug pilot.
Not that there will ever be another Jim, sigh!
Not that there will ever be another Jim, sigh!
Re: Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News
SOMEBODY has got to know a Tug pilot around the GREAT U.S.A. to fly for $$$!!!