paragliding chutes at Manquin/blue sky repack

[brianvh]

Seeing Marc Cav's post about the occasional difficulty with paragliding chutes at a repack, I thought I should elaborate a bit. If you don't know what this subject is about go to the hang gliding topics and read about the chute repack which should occur this weekend (though at the moment some technical difficulties are still being worked out).

If you have a pull down apex (PDA) or annular chute, read the instructions carefully to see if there's any reference to packing tabs or loops at the top of the chute through which a string can be passed to tension from the top. If there isn't, we can't repack your chute. Conical chutes we can still repack.

Many paragliding chutes use a diaper style deployment bag. We can repack them, but you may want to consider purchasing a pocket style deployment bag. I'd think Steve Wendt at blue sky sells them. They are vastly superior to the diaper variety - keeping the various parts of the chute organized separately, less subject to accidental deployment, and a hell of alot easier to repack. Honestly, the diaper deployment bags are a bit silly and should be discontinued.

[Flying Lobster]

Brian--be careful in suggesting reserve packing methodologies that are reflective of those used in the hang gliding world should necessarily be the only ones used for paragliders as well. In recent years there has been a departure in the paraglider world from the "established rules" of reserve packing (mostly in response to deployment issues) that are used in the hang gliding world. I suggest further research--besides just Betty Feiffer (whom I hasten to add I have immense respect for and do not say is wrong) by contacting some of the world's largest manufacturers of paragliding reserves--which include Metamorphosi, Apco, Pro-Design and Sky.

Marc

[Spark]

I suggest further research-- ...
Marc

Having deployed HG reserves twice, I've devoted some serious time to research on this topic ... and ...

I think diapers suck. I won't pack a reserve with a diaper deployment bag.

My rationale is formed from experience and some basic intuition:

premise: you want a staged deployment. That means that when you throw the reserve, the apex travels away from you until the lines are extended fully. More specifically, it means that the reserve extends fully before the lines extend fully. If the lines come out first, you get 'line dump' - the reserve can become entangled or become damaged by the friction from interference with the lines as the canopy opens.

- in a conventional diaper configuration, lines are looped together and held with rubber bands. There is no 'pouch' to keep the lines together.

- assuming the lines don't move or degrade and the loops are done correctly, a properly-packed reserve in a traditional diaper should open in a staged manner (apex, fully extending, then lines extending). Otherwise, you get something else ... undesireable. Maybe line dump. Maybe entanglement. Maybe severed lines or a partially cut reserve.

- PG reserves are typically located on the seat or side of the harness where they get jostled and banged around (just like HG reserves) when they are transported.

- Rubber bands degrade (expecially in hot cars)

- Loops of lines shift.

- When loops of lines are s-folded into a pouch, they are much more likely to come out of the pouch in the reverse order in which they were folded into the pouch. In otrher words, there is a much lower probabiliy of 'line dump'.

I have seen a few changes that have been made in the diaper design over the past few years. The underlying design goal has been to achieve a staged deployment by adding an area for lines to be placed. Why would they change the design? Because a 4-cornered diaper enclosure does not reliably achieve the 'staged deployment' objective.

Using a simple 4-cornered diaper to pack a reserve is a mistake.

I'd hate to wait for the stats to prove it.

'nuf said.

'Spark

[Flying Lobster]

Sparky:

I respect your laundry-hucking experience--but again, I still recommend you avoid generalizing from the hg world as being the only way to go for the PG world. Since there are FAR more PG systems than HG out in the wild--and being actively tested and deployed, I think it stands to reason that directives about how they should be packed should first be backed up by some research into current practices by those with the most practical real-world data.

I did not out-of-hand dismiss the staged packing. There are reasons why PG harnesses come with the systems they do. I would at least verify that changing them is a "do-no-harm" option before doing so.

A good place to start might be the international paragliding forum at http://www.paraglidingforum.com.

marc

[Spark]

Sparky:
... but again, I still recommend you avoid generalizing from the hg world as being the only way to go for the PG world ... A good place to start might be the international paragliding forum at http://www.paraglidingforum.com.
marc

Mark,

You misinterpret: I am in both worlds and I'm saying the way I go.

I have been reading the PGforum since it split from the BAF, and the BAF beforee that and I am very familiar with discussions and perspectives on either side of this issue. I have seen many reserves (originally delivered with diapers) repacked by professionals into deployment bags.

I have formed an opinion. I encourage others to become informed on this issue and form their own opinions.

To help inform those opinions, I've copied some relevant links below (taken from http://www.paraglidingforum.com./viewto ... ght=diaper )

"The main arguments are get it all out fast from the Diaper deployment camp vs. staged deployment to ensure a non fouled deployment . . .

Articles from each of the two cams can be read at:

http://www.highenergysports.com/article ... glider.htm

http://malvern-hang.org.uk/newsarchive/ ... etter.html
Scroll down a bit for - Parachute Deployment Bags by Angelo Crapanzano

...

Diaper Packing Instructions:
http://www.metamorfosi.com/man_ConarPG_en.pdf

Deployment Bag Packing Instructions:
http://www.willswing.com/pdf/manuals/FF ... ctions.pdf
"

[brianvh]

Cragin has just informed me that he has secured the supplies, so the repack is definitely on. We will be stretching out sheets of plastic rather than using tables, so the fee will likely be $5 a head. Cragin will post more details when he gets home around 4 pm. You may want to consider sticking around for the traditional Manquin bonfire as well - camping is available for a reasonable fee.

[Flying Lobster]

Sparky got some good referrences there. My point is not that one system is better than another--just that one system IS NOT likely better than the other in all cases.

I would advise that if you are going to change the system that originally came with the harness, than at the very least test the system in a simulator and ensure that the pull toss and deploy are easy and clean before flying it.

Sincerely,
Hillary Clinton

[Spark]

I was a bit short in my previous responses ... I agree completely.

... My point is not that one system is better than another--just that one system IS NOT likely better than the other in all cases.

I would advise that if you are going to change the system that originally came with the harness, than at the very least test the system in a simulator and ensure that the pull toss and deploy are easy and clean before flying it.

Sincerely,
Hillary Clinton