Hmmmm.. shaping up to be nice SE winds on Sunday. Anyone thinking of Edith's Gap? Saturday looks strong NNE.
ECC also starts on Sunday.
Matthew
Edith's Sunday
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Re: Edith's Sunday
Edith's sounds right to me.
Re: Edith's Sunday
I'm thinking about it too, even though things look a bit light for we hangies.... Figure I should at least check out the LZ, see how doable it would be for a U2.
MarkC
MarkC
Re: Edith's Sunday
Would be great to have PG and HG day at Edith's on Sunday. Looking forward to it.
Re: Edith's Sunday
Mark, if you go to check out the lz, please take a good look at the field to the SE of the PG lz. I still think it is long enough and definitely flat enough for HG's. Hopefully you can take a good look at it.
Bun
Re: Edith's Sunday
Larry,
Jon Brantley and I drove down to the field that you mention on 4/26. The landowner has posted no trespassing signs all over the place. Sounds like one of those landowners you would want to totally avoid. Bacil
Jon Brantley and I drove down to the field that you mention on 4/26. The landowner has posted no trespassing signs all over the place. Sounds like one of those landowners you would want to totally avoid. Bacil
Re: Edith's Sunday
I am interested in Edith Gap on Sunday also.
Jim
Jim
Re: Edith's Sunday
I'm in for Edith's
BB
BB
Re: Daniels Sunday
Forecast shifted south. Looks good for Daniels. Thinking Manassas at 10:15
Re: Edith's Sunday
I'll be there at noon.
Re: Edith's Sunday
Having a tougher time working up some enthusiasm for a light Daniel's day than I was for Edith's.... May head to Edith's anyway, just to scope things out... Or, might convince myself to do the Daniel's drive.
MarkC
MarkC
Re: Edith's Sunday
Karen, Mark and I are still heading towards Edith's hoping for a late day flight.
ETA 2pm in LZ.
Still looks SE at end of day and I think there is a better chance of it glassing off there than at Daniel's
Matthew
ETA 2pm in LZ.
Still looks SE at end of day and I think there is a better chance of it glassing off there than at Daniel's
Matthew
Karen Carra
Re: Edith's Sunday
Thanks Bacil. Probably should take the low and slow approach with him. Just don't give up on it!
Bun
Re: Edith's Sunday
Flew over Old Rag and landed just past it. Got a ride back to launch and flew again the major magic air and flew over Peters mountain. 8 PGs. I hope Edith's worked out.
Re: Edith's Sunday
Well, we didn't have quite the day you all did at Daniel's.... Conditions were near-90 cross at Edith's, but with very careful selection there were launch able cycles. Matthew went first (PG), then I followed (HG) about 15 minutes later. Brief soaring flight, few hundred over, but it was very challenging. Got flushed after a 15 minute flight, then had to deal with the LZ. Doable, but tricky, more details later.
Re: Edith's Sunday
Yep. Totally blew it.
I got 40 minutes and 700 over. It was way cross, with lots of rotor and little thermals. I kept trying to punch south along the ridge in hopes of hitting the high point where the ridge bends a little more to the south. After several attempts, I just went for it and hit a wall of sink half way down to the high point. Turned to go out and land in a decent sized field and quickly realized I would not make it there. I landed in a steep sloping yard on Fort Valley Road. Hovered in over their roof and had lots of turbulence on final--still landed OK. Second smallest area that I have landed in.
Won't do that again (I HOPE).
Got back to the top and Karen and I went for a short hike while David Bodner broke down.
Matthew
I got 40 minutes and 700 over. It was way cross, with lots of rotor and little thermals. I kept trying to punch south along the ridge in hopes of hitting the high point where the ridge bends a little more to the south. After several attempts, I just went for it and hit a wall of sink half way down to the high point. Turned to go out and land in a decent sized field and quickly realized I would not make it there. I landed in a steep sloping yard on Fort Valley Road. Hovered in over their roof and had lots of turbulence on final--still landed OK. Second smallest area that I have landed in.
Won't do that again (I HOPE).
Got back to the top and Karen and I went for a short hike while David Bodner broke down.
Matthew
Re: Edith's Sunday
So here's my take on the Edith's Gap bail-out LZ.
(At least, as far as the hangies are concerned. It's definitely make-able, which is a HUGE improvement compared to years past... But at the same time, if you can get up and find an alternative, that's probably the better option).
The landable portion of the field is oriented roughly NNW/SSE. Here's a link which will hopefully work for you, taken from a prior thread regarding the LZ improvements:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/38%C2 ... !1s0x0:0x0
Many of the obstacles visible in Google Earth are no more, thanks to the LZ work party. Kudos to them, woo-hoo!
However, there remains a single tall tree, near the road about mid-field. It's close to what appears to be a pole for a power line.... But I think that apparent pole has either been removed, or perhaps it's an image artifact? Moot point I guess, as it's close enough to the tree as to be considered part of it.
Be that as it may, there is one clear-cut downside: The field slopes significantly downhill, from north to south. That direction is not an option for landing any HG wing. You are going to be doing a downwind/uphill final, no question about it.
On a south-east day, this means that one can expect an uphill landing with the wind crossing a bit from the right (ideally). Or more likely, a quartering-tailwind from the right.
If the wind in the valley is more southerly, then you are going to be landing straight downwind. Be ready.
The trees bordering the field are pretty high, so unfortunately, the opportunities to land across the field are very limited. Less so in a low-performance wing.... And if that one tree was removed, it would certainly improve things. But even so, for any high-perf wing? The best that you might be able to do is yaw the wing into a slightly more headwind direction, at the very end of your final.
When I first walked the field, winds were VERY light. With all of the space that's available, my thought was that a downhill/upwind would be pretty easy to pull off. And if that's what you luck into.... Well, landing really could be a non-issue, just match the slope and be ready to flare before you normally would.
But that wasn't the case when I got flushed : Things were really cranking, due south, when I came in. Whole different ballgame.
I did a right-hand approach, preferring to fly right at that big tree, and then turn away from it (basically downwind). I did this a bit too high : Probably should have flown directly into the southern corner of the LZ and then done a longer uphill/downwind final, staying to the right of the tree.
But as it happened, my mistake worked out pretty well.... As soon as I turned uphill/downwind, I knew there was ZERO chance of flaring, I was absolutely screaming downwind. In fact, I was seriously concerned that I would run out of field. But I managed to get down, matched the slope, and then gave a last gasp push-out on the basetube (still prone), let go of everything, and skidded to a halt about 20 feet from the North end of the field in a big cloud of dust.
Wheels? Oh yeah. This sort of situation is why I have them!
And the slope at the very top of the field is a bit less than it is downhill. And the ground is a bit smoother. So that's why I say things worked out pretty well : Up at the top, smooth ground, no tall vegetation. If the grass/weeds had been high, it could have gotten very ugly.
Bottom line: Be very careful if you decide to land an HG in this field. Walk it. Check the vegetation. Watch the wind for a while. Put up a windsock that's visible from launch, so you can monitor what's happening below. Consider wheels if you don't have them.
MarkC
PS: And yes, my dinky little wheels made all the difference. As they have in at least three very different scenarios. Never would have imagined that when I first saw them ("How can _they_ possibly help?").
(At least, as far as the hangies are concerned. It's definitely make-able, which is a HUGE improvement compared to years past... But at the same time, if you can get up and find an alternative, that's probably the better option).
The landable portion of the field is oriented roughly NNW/SSE. Here's a link which will hopefully work for you, taken from a prior thread regarding the LZ improvements:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/38%C2 ... !1s0x0:0x0
Many of the obstacles visible in Google Earth are no more, thanks to the LZ work party. Kudos to them, woo-hoo!
However, there remains a single tall tree, near the road about mid-field. It's close to what appears to be a pole for a power line.... But I think that apparent pole has either been removed, or perhaps it's an image artifact? Moot point I guess, as it's close enough to the tree as to be considered part of it.
Be that as it may, there is one clear-cut downside: The field slopes significantly downhill, from north to south. That direction is not an option for landing any HG wing. You are going to be doing a downwind/uphill final, no question about it.
On a south-east day, this means that one can expect an uphill landing with the wind crossing a bit from the right (ideally). Or more likely, a quartering-tailwind from the right.
If the wind in the valley is more southerly, then you are going to be landing straight downwind. Be ready.
The trees bordering the field are pretty high, so unfortunately, the opportunities to land across the field are very limited. Less so in a low-performance wing.... And if that one tree was removed, it would certainly improve things. But even so, for any high-perf wing? The best that you might be able to do is yaw the wing into a slightly more headwind direction, at the very end of your final.
When I first walked the field, winds were VERY light. With all of the space that's available, my thought was that a downhill/upwind would be pretty easy to pull off. And if that's what you luck into.... Well, landing really could be a non-issue, just match the slope and be ready to flare before you normally would.
But that wasn't the case when I got flushed : Things were really cranking, due south, when I came in. Whole different ballgame.
I did a right-hand approach, preferring to fly right at that big tree, and then turn away from it (basically downwind). I did this a bit too high : Probably should have flown directly into the southern corner of the LZ and then done a longer uphill/downwind final, staying to the right of the tree.
But as it happened, my mistake worked out pretty well.... As soon as I turned uphill/downwind, I knew there was ZERO chance of flaring, I was absolutely screaming downwind. In fact, I was seriously concerned that I would run out of field. But I managed to get down, matched the slope, and then gave a last gasp push-out on the basetube (still prone), let go of everything, and skidded to a halt about 20 feet from the North end of the field in a big cloud of dust.
Wheels? Oh yeah. This sort of situation is why I have them!
And the slope at the very top of the field is a bit less than it is downhill. And the ground is a bit smoother. So that's why I say things worked out pretty well : Up at the top, smooth ground, no tall vegetation. If the grass/weeds had been high, it could have gotten very ugly.
Bottom line: Be very careful if you decide to land an HG in this field. Walk it. Check the vegetation. Watch the wind for a while. Put up a windsock that's visible from launch, so you can monitor what's happening below. Consider wheels if you don't have them.
MarkC
PS: And yes, my dinky little wheels made all the difference. As they have in at least three very different scenarios. Never would have imagined that when I first saw them ("How can _they_ possibly help?").
Re: Edith's Sunday
Landing should've been less dramatic for me flying my Falcon with the big wheels. Still, I chose not to fly. No chance of soaring, and the grass in the LZ was high. It's interesting that it seems to blow just as strongly in the LZ as it does at launch, based on my two times there.
I haven't given up. Perhaps on a better day. For now I'm choosing to be conservative.
BTW, Mark, I have your wind meter.
I haven't given up. Perhaps on a better day. For now I'm choosing to be conservative.
BTW, Mark, I have your wind meter.
David Bodner
-
pvanoevelen
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:42 pm
Re: Edith's Sunday
Mark C,
Great write up and interesting to read how the EG LZ is interpreted for HG's. Having flown there now several times under varying conditions the LZ is even for PG's at times tricky as it gets very thermic and winds can shift 180 degrees.
Even for PG's if you are not certain set up at the down hill side of the LZ so you can land uphill as well. The great work done by the crews in removing some of the trees and bushes certainly makes it a much better LZ.
Peter
Great write up and interesting to read how the EG LZ is interpreted for HG's. Having flown there now several times under varying conditions the LZ is even for PG's at times tricky as it gets very thermic and winds can shift 180 degrees.
Even for PG's if you are not certain set up at the down hill side of the LZ so you can land uphill as well. The great work done by the crews in removing some of the trees and bushes certainly makes it a much better LZ.
Peter
Peter van Oevelen - RoamingDutchman
P4/T3 Instructor/Observer
M: 202 577 6901
P4/T3 Instructor/Observer
M: 202 577 6901
Re: Edith's - Bunner's alternate LZ suggestion?
Has anyone been able to positively identify the site Larry Bunner has mentioned? Shortly before we started the initiative to reopen Edith's Gap I found a potential LZ a bit further glide from the one we are using. It's almost perfectly flat but is significantly smaller than it appears when driving past it. The entrance to it is along the same dirt road that we use to reach our current LZ, but it is much closer to the paved road. It has a couple of 'no trespassing" signs posted, but I met the owners who gave us permission to land there. This one would be tough for a double surface glider. It's just big enough to tempt you. I'm hoping Larry's LZ is a different one.
Dan
Dan
Re: Edith's Sunday
Google Earth N38 43.119 W 78 29.492 Plenty big enough for a topless. Clearing a few trees would make it even better.. There's a tree right in the middle of the flat part of the field. There are a couple next to the building on the NE end of the field that would really enhance the length of the field. Check it out!
Bun
Re: Edith's Sunday
That field is smaller than the one we have cleared. I think it also slopes downward to the south.
Matthew
Matthew
Re: Edith's Sunday
Here's the yard I landed in. Google won't pinpoint the exact location
38.711293, -78.514462
It's the first yard to the right on the north side of Fort Valley Road. It slopes sharply down towards the road.
I think Pete Schumann may have landed a hang glider here years ago. Not sure how that is possible.
Matthew
38.711293, -78.514462
It's the first yard to the right on the north side of Fort Valley Road. It slopes sharply down towards the road.
I think Pete Schumann may have landed a hang glider here years ago. Not sure how that is possible.
Matthew
Re: Edith's Sunday
Matthew, the field rises a couple feet over the length of the field to the SSW and does drop off toward the south. The flat portion is what interested me so much in this particular field. For a hang glider it is much longer than the PG field because it doesn't drop off at a 10:1 slope. But hey, I haven't had my boots on the ground to really check it out. I just want to be able to fly this place when I come back to fly this summer.
Bun