Close call on tow!
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Close call on tow!
Had another “in the airport” flight at Ridgely this afternoon and was lucky that both Jim Rooney and I experienced only adrenaline surges without incident. I’m certain that it would have been significantly different had Rooney waited any longer to cut me loose. Here’s what I've re-learned:
When you’re on tow and you realize the tug is headed in a direction that you can’t follow, chances are that any last ditch corrections are just wasting precious time! -> RELEASE, don’t wait for the weak-link to break or the tug pilot to solve the problem!
Plus, if you’ve experienced a reoccurring control issue during tows that haven’t resulted in premature releases -> Do Not ignore them! These are problems that could bite-hard at the wrong time! For example, during the initial climb on multiple tows, I’ve had difficulty staying level with the tug. Stuffing the bar to drop down to the tug was not working. I found myself waiting for Rooney to climb instead of quickly dropping down to his altitude. During this phase of trying to fly down to the tug, lateral control was compromised as I was pulling in hard and, as a result, pilot induced oscillations were the norm.
I can’t definitely say that today’s problem was solely due to lack of full pitch control, as crosswind turbulence may have contributed. However, after today’s short flight both Sunny and Adam agree that pitch control was most likely compromised by my hanging 4 to 5 inches to high in the control frame. Plus, not rotating my body to a “shoulders low and feet high” position during the tow was also affecting pitch control. What was comfortable for mountain flights may have been only marginally acceptable on tow.
Any insights will be appreciated.
Ward
When you’re on tow and you realize the tug is headed in a direction that you can’t follow, chances are that any last ditch corrections are just wasting precious time! -> RELEASE, don’t wait for the weak-link to break or the tug pilot to solve the problem!
Plus, if you’ve experienced a reoccurring control issue during tows that haven’t resulted in premature releases -> Do Not ignore them! These are problems that could bite-hard at the wrong time! For example, during the initial climb on multiple tows, I’ve had difficulty staying level with the tug. Stuffing the bar to drop down to the tug was not working. I found myself waiting for Rooney to climb instead of quickly dropping down to his altitude. During this phase of trying to fly down to the tug, lateral control was compromised as I was pulling in hard and, as a result, pilot induced oscillations were the norm.
I can’t definitely say that today’s problem was solely due to lack of full pitch control, as crosswind turbulence may have contributed. However, after today’s short flight both Sunny and Adam agree that pitch control was most likely compromised by my hanging 4 to 5 inches to high in the control frame. Plus, not rotating my body to a “shoulders low and feet high” position during the tow was also affecting pitch control. What was comfortable for mountain flights may have been only marginally acceptable on tow.
Any insights will be appreciated.
Ward
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Re: Close call on tow!
Didn’t fly with my cameras yesterday but here are two photos from an uneventful tow this April that highlight some of the issues in the early phase of the tow (just before releasing the cart and recovering from the first thermal/turbulance). During the tow we flew through several significant thermals with the first starting at the end of the runway. Based on my body position in the second photo (taken just after leaving the airport), I’m surprised that I made it up to Rooney’s wave off at ~2.5 k.
Thanks in advance for your advice!
Ward
Thanks in advance for your advice!
Ward
Re: Close call on tow!
Wow, those pictures tell the whole story. You are on tow, but it looks like you are fully upright and ready to flare for a landing. I can see why that would affect your pitch control on tow. I'm glad a scary incident turned out okay for everyone involved.
Brad
Brad
Re: Close call on tow!
I'm glad to hear that nothing bad happened to you or Jim. I would have to agree with Adam and Sunny on the height above the base tube and body position however sometimes shit happens that can't be explained. A perfect example is the cover of last months magazine, Ben Dunn a highly experienced tow pilot found himself in a compromising position on the initial climb out after launch.
From the photos it appears you are using a 3 point tow bridal which should help pitch control compared to a pro tow system. The problem I am seeing is that your body position is not allowing the 3 point system to spread out vertically and therefore the tow force is concentrated mainly on you and not the glider. I think if the release was positioned higher near the keel rather than at the bottom of your long hang strap it could help spread the force out. I could be wrong but that is what I am seeing. Feedback from those with experience in these matters is welcome
Jim Messina
From the photos it appears you are using a 3 point tow bridal which should help pitch control compared to a pro tow system. The problem I am seeing is that your body position is not allowing the 3 point system to spread out vertically and therefore the tow force is concentrated mainly on you and not the glider. I think if the release was positioned higher near the keel rather than at the bottom of your long hang strap it could help spread the force out. I could be wrong but that is what I am seeing. Feedback from those with experience in these matters is welcome
Jim Messina
Re: Close call on tow!
Hi Ward
Thanks for posting on this. I would expect that Sunny and Adam would have the most insight into this issue but I thought I would make two points anyway.
The first is to repeat your point that releasing early is a good option. One reason why I like towing is that you can land and go back up again right away. No breaking down and setting up. This means that there is very little cost to releasing before a problem develops.
The second point is that I tow with a bridle attached just to my shoulders ( aka a pro bridle). I believe the pro bridle makes it slightly more difficult to control the glider on tow because you get pulled through the control frame more than when I am not on tow. So I have been on the fence about using that system - even though I must have close to 200 tows with that system without an issue. But maybe it helps keep my head down and therefore may also give me relatively more control than a 3-point tow system (since you look pretty vertical). My recollection is that a couple of others have 3-point tow bridle and a single hang point harness like you. Do they have the same pitch up posture as your pictures show?
Thanks again for posting and hope to see you out soon.
Tom McGowan
Thanks for posting on this. I would expect that Sunny and Adam would have the most insight into this issue but I thought I would make two points anyway.
The first is to repeat your point that releasing early is a good option. One reason why I like towing is that you can land and go back up again right away. No breaking down and setting up. This means that there is very little cost to releasing before a problem develops.
The second point is that I tow with a bridle attached just to my shoulders ( aka a pro bridle). I believe the pro bridle makes it slightly more difficult to control the glider on tow because you get pulled through the control frame more than when I am not on tow. So I have been on the fence about using that system - even though I must have close to 200 tows with that system without an issue. But maybe it helps keep my head down and therefore may also give me relatively more control than a 3-point tow system (since you look pretty vertical). My recollection is that a couple of others have 3-point tow bridle and a single hang point harness like you. Do they have the same pitch up posture as your pictures show?
Thanks again for posting and hope to see you out soon.
Tom McGowan
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Re: Close call on tow!
Ward, it's interesting to see on those pictures that while still on the cart, the tow line being already tensioned you are pretty much parallel to the keel, this looks right. On tow you're way upright, as if you rotated up for landing. You should be able to maintain that angle of your body parallel to the keel or even more head down throughout the tow. It makes sense that if you're hanging too high it's harder to push in for speed, however you might be pushing yourself upwards instead of forwards and so you get such a head high position, making much more difficult to control pitch and roll.
I stayed and went through a lot footage of my tows; I had a similar a setup to yours for a little while (3 point bridle attached to chest and carabiner) - the body's position on tow is parallel to the keel (just like on your first picture, that's why that looked right to me). After switching to the 2 point "pro tow" I am still pretty much parallel to the keel, perhaps just a hair head lower and a bit more forward, a pretty small difference. If I were you I'd keep the current tow setup, get a hang loop that drops you much closer to the control bar and see if that makes it easier to stay pulled in and remain parallel to the keel instead of pushed head up.
Take this with a grain of salt, I'm no expert, just an observation Looking forward to sharing the cloud base air with you again soon.
I stayed and went through a lot footage of my tows; I had a similar a setup to yours for a little while (3 point bridle attached to chest and carabiner) - the body's position on tow is parallel to the keel (just like on your first picture, that's why that looked right to me). After switching to the 2 point "pro tow" I am still pretty much parallel to the keel, perhaps just a hair head lower and a bit more forward, a pretty small difference. If I were you I'd keep the current tow setup, get a hang loop that drops you much closer to the control bar and see if that makes it easier to stay pulled in and remain parallel to the keel instead of pushed head up.
Take this with a grain of salt, I'm no expert, just an observation Looking forward to sharing the cloud base air with you again soon.
Felix.
Re: Close call on tow!
You look head high in the cart. Your elbows are barely bent. It looks like there isn't much VG line pulled and stowed either. So, I would get my head down when in the cart. This will give you much more control. As far as pitch is concerned, you should have something around 1/2 VG pulled. You should only have about 2/4 lbs of effort in pitch when on tow. With little pitch effort you will be able to control roll much easier. Remember when making roll controls on tow (especially on a topless) don't wait for weight shift, bump the control bar hard and fast as soon as you recognize the need. If you weight shift and wait for the correction its too late and you will need to make an opposite control input to get yourself in line again (PIO). Just my 2 cents worth, Peter
Peter Kane
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Re: Close call on tow!
Brad's 100% on the money here.
For contrast....
Notice how his arms are 90deg bent while yours are straight... BIG difference.
Arms straight.
Slider up.
Feet out.
Head's practically tangled up in the top bridal.
Yeah, you look like you're landing.
Let's get you hanging in the simulator the next time you're out.
I'm looking at the back of your harness and it's crunched up because you're not being pushed back by having your feet in it... which allows your slider to slide up... which helps you get upright... which is exactly what you don't want.
For contrast....
Notice how his arms are 90deg bent while yours are straight... BIG difference.
Arms straight.
Slider up.
Feet out.
Head's practically tangled up in the top bridal.
Yeah, you look like you're landing.
Let's get you hanging in the simulator the next time you're out.
I'm looking at the back of your harness and it's crunched up because you're not being pushed back by having your feet in it... which allows your slider to slide up... which helps you get upright... which is exactly what you don't want.
Re: Close call on tow!
And... look at your harness on the cart... you're upright, slider back with the back of the harness crumpling... because your feet aren't in it.
I'm all for people being "prepared".
This is a good example of being over prepared.
Your slider's up because you're not committed to being in the harness. You're hedging your bets in case you're off tow and low and have to land. You want to be able to get your feet out. So you never really put them in. So they don't push the harness back. So it doesn't pull the slider back.
Now, yes, you want to be able to get your feet out... "in case".
But, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Do or do not. There is no try.
But like I said... c'mon out and get hanging in the simulator.
It's no wonder to me now why you couldn't stay with the tow... the good news is that we should be able to sort this out pretty easily... I mean, if you were able to stay on for even as long as you did with *that* going on!?... then once we get you into position, towing should be a piece of cake for ya.
Jim
I'm all for people being "prepared".
This is a good example of being over prepared.
Your slider's up because you're not committed to being in the harness. You're hedging your bets in case you're off tow and low and have to land. You want to be able to get your feet out. So you never really put them in. So they don't push the harness back. So it doesn't pull the slider back.
Now, yes, you want to be able to get your feet out... "in case".
But, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Do or do not. There is no try.
But like I said... c'mon out and get hanging in the simulator.
It's no wonder to me now why you couldn't stay with the tow... the good news is that we should be able to sort this out pretty easily... I mean, if you were able to stay on for even as long as you did with *that* going on!?... then once we get you into position, towing should be a piece of cake for ya.
Jim
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Re: Close call on tow!
To everyone that has offered their input, both on and off the forum, THANKS! Your advice and perspectives have helped me, and hopefully others!
The head high, elbows barely bend position at the start of the tow is a fundamental mistake that may have initiated or certainly exacerbated most or all of the control issues during the tow. Plus, not having my feet in the harness boot interfered or blocked my ability to rotate to a head down position once in the air. After working with Jim, Sunny and Adam to correct the issue(s), I’ll post again with solutions.
There’s one additional Safety Issue that I didn’t consider until after my earlier post. Given its significance, here it is. When Jim gave me the rope we were approaching the south end of the runway with no more than 2 to 4 hundred ft of altitude. The tension release on the towline triggered a “gut response ” of pulling in to gain airspeed and control. Soon after, came the realization that I was flying away from LZ options so I turned back to the center of the airport and its flanking LZ fields. During the 180, I was totally focused on getting back without wasting precious altitude. This concern combined with the fact that my landing into the wind was most likely not an option consumed most or all of my thoughts.
What I did not consider (or even look for) was the dangerous fact that I was now dragging a rather long rope that was looped over my control bar! The sensation of the towline tension release, when Jim cut me lose, was identical to that felt when a weak-link breaks so my first and only thought was that the separation was due to a snapped weak-link. If the towline had snagged on anything during the short flight - Yikes!!
To avoid this nightmare scenario - if you’re low and the tug leaves you, PULL THE TOW RELEASE ASAP no matter what you may think triggered the separation! If you get the rope up high, there’s time to realize what happened and reel it in or release it over the airfield, but down low, it’s a huge potential/unthinkable danger if you don’t immediately drop it.
Thanks again!
Ward
The head high, elbows barely bend position at the start of the tow is a fundamental mistake that may have initiated or certainly exacerbated most or all of the control issues during the tow. Plus, not having my feet in the harness boot interfered or blocked my ability to rotate to a head down position once in the air. After working with Jim, Sunny and Adam to correct the issue(s), I’ll post again with solutions.
There’s one additional Safety Issue that I didn’t consider until after my earlier post. Given its significance, here it is. When Jim gave me the rope we were approaching the south end of the runway with no more than 2 to 4 hundred ft of altitude. The tension release on the towline triggered a “gut response ” of pulling in to gain airspeed and control. Soon after, came the realization that I was flying away from LZ options so I turned back to the center of the airport and its flanking LZ fields. During the 180, I was totally focused on getting back without wasting precious altitude. This concern combined with the fact that my landing into the wind was most likely not an option consumed most or all of my thoughts.
What I did not consider (or even look for) was the dangerous fact that I was now dragging a rather long rope that was looped over my control bar! The sensation of the towline tension release, when Jim cut me lose, was identical to that felt when a weak-link breaks so my first and only thought was that the separation was due to a snapped weak-link. If the towline had snagged on anything during the short flight - Yikes!!
To avoid this nightmare scenario - if you’re low and the tug leaves you, PULL THE TOW RELEASE ASAP no matter what you may think triggered the separation! If you get the rope up high, there’s time to realize what happened and reel it in or release it over the airfield, but down low, it’s a huge potential/unthinkable danger if you don’t immediately drop it.
Thanks again!
Ward
Re: Close call on tow!
Hi Ward, glad you are ok and thanks for sharing this near event. Jim Rooney has some excellent comments. I remember looking at your pics from previous flights on this harness glider combo and thought I commented back then that you were too high above the bar (maybe I commented to someone offline). Anyway, looking at all of your photos from previous flights, you are head high and too far above the bar. I tow with one leg out of the harness until I feel good in the air. Even in that attitude which is head up, my chest is still close to the bar. I'm convinced that 1) you are too high above the bar and 2) you may need to adjust your pitch on the harness to make it natural to be rotated down (vs. in landing mode). Once you make the harness adjustment, you may it uncomfortable at first however once used to flying in this attitude, you will find the glider is easier to fly both on and off tow. Can't wait to hear your feedback once you've made the changes.
Bun
Re: Close call on tow! - releasing the rope
Ward,
You've gotten a lot of great advice on the tow issues especially from Jim Rooney and Larry Bunner among others. I am sure that with their assistance you will get this worked out. I did notice that you also realized that there could have been an issue with the tow rope. I think I can add something constructive here.
Once the rope is no longer attached to the tug there isn't necessarily enough force on it to detach it from the hook on your release. You can hit the release and it might still be attached. It's important to confirm that it's clear of your wing.
Dan T
You've gotten a lot of great advice on the tow issues especially from Jim Rooney and Larry Bunner among others. I am sure that with their assistance you will get this worked out. I did notice that you also realized that there could have been an issue with the tow rope. I think I can add something constructive here.
Once the rope is no longer attached to the tug there isn't necessarily enough force on it to detach it from the hook on your release. You can hit the release and it might still be attached. It's important to confirm that it's clear of your wing.
Dan T
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Re: Close call on tow!
Yesterday, started with a series of focused/tough questions on what went wrong last Saturday and ended with the realization that Highland had just helped me become a better/safer pilot. From the morning simulator practice that highlighted both the obvious and more subtle issues to the last tow, where at ~1,500 ft Jim started a slow dance with the tug that quickly ramped up to a series of rapidly reversing sharp turns to determine just how much I had really learned. The day ended with Adam and Jim helping me understand the aerodynamics of what went wrong on the last turn and how I could have stayed longer on tow for perhaps one more “insane, holy sh**” attempt to stay behind Jim. I highly recommend taking one of these tows to test just how good your technique is. Plus, the excitement of staying on tow during one of Jim’s turns coupled with the fact that the next one is going to be even more intense is an awesome experience!
Here’s what helped:
1. Start the tow with my chest close to the control bar, arms relaxed/not rigid and elbows below the control bar.
2. During the tow, with both feet in the harness, I found that I had to make multiple small harness adjustments to keep my chest down. I realized that I prefer watching the tug with my head up and that was most likely enhancing the chest up trend.
3. When I first realized that I was drifting away from center I would initiate a correction that was proportional to how quickly I was moving off target and the correction was held only until my glider started to respond. Most of the corrections were accomplished with small/brief inputs.
4. Both Jim and Adam emphasized that a turn or lateral correction should be accomplished by keeping your head/chest centered on the control bar and rotating your hips and legs in the direction that you want to go (the push/pull or shopping cart turn). By keeping my chest centered during the correction and applying just enough input to get the glider to respond, I found that pilot induced oscillation was no longer an issue.
All of these adjustments/improvements are fundamental to proper towing technique that, for unclear reasons, I drifted from. Bottom line, sloppy technique can result in unintended consequences!
Ward
Here’s what helped:
1. Start the tow with my chest close to the control bar, arms relaxed/not rigid and elbows below the control bar.
2. During the tow, with both feet in the harness, I found that I had to make multiple small harness adjustments to keep my chest down. I realized that I prefer watching the tug with my head up and that was most likely enhancing the chest up trend.
3. When I first realized that I was drifting away from center I would initiate a correction that was proportional to how quickly I was moving off target and the correction was held only until my glider started to respond. Most of the corrections were accomplished with small/brief inputs.
4. Both Jim and Adam emphasized that a turn or lateral correction should be accomplished by keeping your head/chest centered on the control bar and rotating your hips and legs in the direction that you want to go (the push/pull or shopping cart turn). By keeping my chest centered during the correction and applying just enough input to get the glider to respond, I found that pilot induced oscillation was no longer an issue.
All of these adjustments/improvements are fundamental to proper towing technique that, for unclear reasons, I drifted from. Bottom line, sloppy technique can result in unintended consequences!
Ward