Full Disclosure/ Hogback Violations

[RichH]

Now that the trial for the individuals involved in the violations that occurred at Hogback Mt. is over. I suggest the Capital Club provide full disclosure in the Forum of what occurred at Hogback Mt. and what actions the Capital Club is going to take to prevent such incidents in the future. I think every pilot should be concerned when our flying rights are put into jeopardy by the actions of a few. Our relationships with the Forest and National Park service has been built on the understanding that we fly in a responsible manner and that we follow the rules and regulations that we agreed upon for the issuance of the special permits. When those rules and regulations are ignored it opens the door for our permits to be denied. It would be a shame to see the efforts of countless individuals over many years of securing our access to fly from public lands be tossed aside by our inability to fly in a safe and prudent manner from public lands. I hope we all HG and PG alike would share in that concern..

[sailin]

Rich,

Please standby for a summary of the events (the best that I know them). I am writing something up but I have a lot on the schedule right now so it might be another day or two.

thanks,
Jon

[RichH]

Thanks Jon ...I appreciate your response...

[Dan T]

I have to respectfully disagree with Rich's recommendation. I don't see what is gained by the "full disclosure" that is being advocated. The individuals who violated the terms of their special use permits went to court, paid their fines and did whatever else was necessary to put the issue behind them. I think extracting a "full disclosure" of ones sins at this point accomplishes nothing other than to create a further rift between the two elements of our sport.

There is a lesson to be learned from the relevant facts though. The key point is that the special use permit identifies three sites as available for HG, but only one of those, Dickey's Ridge, as available for PG. This is a relatively subtle distinction. The sites were originally established by the HG community long before PG had any presence in our CHGPA community. Dickey's was opened up to PG much later after a specific effort was made to open up that site. At the time Hogback wasn't really suitable for PG and remained that way until recent NPS work in the area improved the launch site.

It's not too hard to conclude that the pilots who flew the site on that day had no expectation that being confronted by the NPS Rangers would risk putting the entire Park in jeopardy. Dickey's Ridge is a very popular site within our PG community is flow by the same group of PG pilots among others regularly. All of the PG pilots are diligent about getting their special use permits. I'm sure they won't make the mistake of putting Dickey's Ridge at risk again by not paying attention to the limitations of those permits.

Paying attention to the details of our agreements with the land owners including both the government and private landowners is the lesson to be learned. I am sure the offending pilots learned it well. I don't see the utility in demanding a confessional at this point.

Dan Tomlinson

[theflyingdude]

I would respectfully disagree with Dan's assessment. The offending pilot/s apparently made a conscious decision to violate established site protocols and therefore chose to put their their personal interests over the general interests of the flying community. We're supposed to be a self-regulating community and that only works when the community has all necessary knowledge and information to make their own assessment of the facts and then apply whatever peer pressure is necessary to avoid future infractions. And let's be honest, this event was apparently discussed quite openly on the PG Forum (until recently) and most of the PG pilots already know who was involved and have heard their side of the story (including some apparently disparaging commentary about the ranger who made the arrests). There's a reason they put arrest records in the local newspaper and the offenders are rarely granted anonymity.

JR

[Danny Brotto]

The use permit is published here: http://www.nps.gov/shen/parkmgmt/upload ... liding.pdf

So as it reads, HG is permitted from Millers Head, Hogback, and Dickey's Ridge. Paragliding is only permitted from Dickey's Ridge.

Was the violation having to do solely with (attempted?) paragliding from Hogback? I could see that this issue could be addressed in the future with an appeal to open Hogback and "Miller's Head" to paragliding. Should probably reword the MOU to address the "cliff launch" requirements to be more applicable too.

Other than this thread, I have no other knowledge of what transpired but with all of this "call for secrecy" my curiosity is peaked. Since this was a trial a little digging could uncover the complaints and trial results, right? Perhaps as a courtesy to the CHGPA membership "not in the know" those publicly available transcripts could be published here? Leave the pilot(s) names out, whatever, use it as a learning experience.

I’m sure that the pilot(s) involved would be happy to share their experiences with fellow pilots so that their innocent mistake is not repeated. If the mistake is something other than innocent, then we should know that too…

Danny Brotto

[sailin]

From Dan T- "I have to respectfully disagree with Rich's recommendation. I don't see what is gained by the "full disclosure" that is being advocated. The individuals who violated the terms of their special use permits went to court, paid their fines and did whatever else was necessary to put the issue behind them. I think extracting a "full disclosure" of ones sins at this point accomplishes nothing other than to create a further rift between the two elements of our sport."


Dan T,

I completely disagree with your comments. This is exactly the kind of mindset that propagates "rifts" between the two elements of our sport. The only way to enjoy a healthy community is open and honest, disclosure. We cannot quietly dismiss things away and expect everything to be okay and have a healthy community. When we make mistakes, we must own up to them, apologize to those we negatively affected, and try to spread the lessons that we learned to better the rest of the community. We must have thick skin and not expect others to walk on egg shells with us when our trials and tribulations are posted or talked about. We cannot pick up our toys up and go play in other sandboxes because it is "easier" or more convenient with no threat of being "called out". We must allow our fellow pilots to make mistakes and if they own up to them, and are sincere with their apology, and use their lessons learned to better the community, then we must forgive them and respect them. We must give Pilots the opportunity to do this. If they are insincere or show repeated lack of judgement or continue to put themselves or others in danger or put the free flight communities reputation or sites in jeopardy, then they must be held accountable.....by all of us.......we have been charged with the responsibility of self regulation. To me that is the only way to have a healthy community and ensure that free flight will continue to enjoy its relative freedom.

Jon