Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Thanks to the kindness of strangers, this saturday I appear to have become the first first person to launch and land a hang glider at Edith's Gap in about 20 years.
I had come down to stay at Ellis' dacha in Front Royal for Thanksgiving. Looking at the weather before I left, I saw nothing but L&V from Friday on, so made the rather radical decision not to bring my glider. Of course it was soarable at High Rock on Friday. All due to my not bringing my glider, but did I get a single word of thanks? Went winery touring instead.
On Saturday Ellis' room-mates Margarita and Damien and I decided to go hiking, and I was anxious to check out the new Edith's gap, so followed Ellis' suggestion of a good hike starting from launch. We got up there to find the place overrun with paraglider pilots, and a roughly 8 mph wind blowing more or less straight in under largely overcast skies. Figures it would be not only launchable but borderline soarable, being that I arrived without a glider. The one hang glider there was under the auspices of Trevor, who was a H2 so not cleared to fly there. Yet after a few minutes of talking, he decided I was qualified to do the deed, and offered up his glider. Mind you, he had never even heard of me 5 minutes earlier, so though I was floored by his generosity I wasn't about to give him enough time to change his mind.
We burned rubber down to the LZ to check things out. I had earlier checked it out on Google Earth and come to the conclusion that a downwind, uphill landing was the only way to go. Upon walking the field, we picked out two possibilities. The one shown in yellow below provides the longest uphill stretch, but it can be a tight squeeze between the clumps of trees. I decided I preferred the one shown in green, which was mildly uphill but broad, and crosswind rather than straight downwind.
Trevor had a Falcon 195, bigger than my standard wing, hence more soarable. Launch was effortless, and on my first pass I was slightly above launch. The winds were actually crossing from the right once in the air, and since I wasn't so familiar with the wing I decided to go a bit downwind to give the paragliders some breathing room. Soon enough I hit wide sink, and since I was never much more than ridge level and on somebody else's glider going into a far and tight field I had never landed in before, I decided not to fight to regain altitude, but to cut and run for the LZ. Hit a pop from a shoulder about halfway out, but after that it was all sink. I was gritting my teeth, but arrived at my final approach point with nearly 100 feet of altitude. Burned in a turn to final, and landed lightly on my feet.
Trevor turned down my offer of a late lunch, but I owe him several drinks or dinner. If anyone runs into him and knows me, I'd be grateful if you'd treat him and send me the tab. I'm not down from NYC that often, so it may take a couple years for me to get around to it myself.
As for my thoughts on landing a hang glider in the current state of the LZ, I'd say with a single surface in the non-thermally part of the day (I had an overcast) it's a non-issue with the approaches I show above. Double surface would be tighter but possible if you trust your skills. Taking out the clumps of trees would result in a beautiful place to experience uphill downwind landings.
I had come down to stay at Ellis' dacha in Front Royal for Thanksgiving. Looking at the weather before I left, I saw nothing but L&V from Friday on, so made the rather radical decision not to bring my glider. Of course it was soarable at High Rock on Friday. All due to my not bringing my glider, but did I get a single word of thanks? Went winery touring instead.
On Saturday Ellis' room-mates Margarita and Damien and I decided to go hiking, and I was anxious to check out the new Edith's gap, so followed Ellis' suggestion of a good hike starting from launch. We got up there to find the place overrun with paraglider pilots, and a roughly 8 mph wind blowing more or less straight in under largely overcast skies. Figures it would be not only launchable but borderline soarable, being that I arrived without a glider. The one hang glider there was under the auspices of Trevor, who was a H2 so not cleared to fly there. Yet after a few minutes of talking, he decided I was qualified to do the deed, and offered up his glider. Mind you, he had never even heard of me 5 minutes earlier, so though I was floored by his generosity I wasn't about to give him enough time to change his mind.
We burned rubber down to the LZ to check things out. I had earlier checked it out on Google Earth and come to the conclusion that a downwind, uphill landing was the only way to go. Upon walking the field, we picked out two possibilities. The one shown in yellow below provides the longest uphill stretch, but it can be a tight squeeze between the clumps of trees. I decided I preferred the one shown in green, which was mildly uphill but broad, and crosswind rather than straight downwind.
Trevor had a Falcon 195, bigger than my standard wing, hence more soarable. Launch was effortless, and on my first pass I was slightly above launch. The winds were actually crossing from the right once in the air, and since I wasn't so familiar with the wing I decided to go a bit downwind to give the paragliders some breathing room. Soon enough I hit wide sink, and since I was never much more than ridge level and on somebody else's glider going into a far and tight field I had never landed in before, I decided not to fight to regain altitude, but to cut and run for the LZ. Hit a pop from a shoulder about halfway out, but after that it was all sink. I was gritting my teeth, but arrived at my final approach point with nearly 100 feet of altitude. Burned in a turn to final, and landed lightly on my feet.
Trevor turned down my offer of a late lunch, but I owe him several drinks or dinner. If anyone runs into him and knows me, I'd be grateful if you'd treat him and send me the tab. I'm not down from NYC that often, so it may take a couple years for me to get around to it myself.
As for my thoughts on landing a hang glider in the current state of the LZ, I'd say with a single surface in the non-thermally part of the day (I had an overcast) it's a non-issue with the approaches I show above. Double surface would be tighter but possible if you trust your skills. Taking out the clumps of trees would result in a beautiful place to experience uphill downwind landings.
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Brian,
Thanks for the detailed post and info. That would be great if we could clear that field and have a useable LZ there for HGs. I haven't been down on that field in the flesh, but looking at it in google earth makes it seems there is some powerlines in the in the south and west corner of the field. Are they there?
thanks,
Jon
Thanks for the detailed post and info. That would be great if we could clear that field and have a useable LZ there for HGs. I haven't been down on that field in the flesh, but looking at it in google earth makes it seems there is some powerlines in the in the south and west corner of the field. Are they there?
thanks,
Jon
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Yep, but pretty close to tree height, so not a major issue seeing as how you'd have to negotiate the trees anyway. And going across the field they are on the uphill side, so you are not setting up over them anyway. The trees on the east (lower) side are shorter than the trees on the west side, so everything sets up for a nice cross field landing of about 100 yards. May not work so well with SW winds, but with the SE winds we had it was a cakewalk. Once the clumps of trees are gone you'd have a choice between landing straight up the hill or from the east, and both would be good for H2 with moderate airtime.
In fact I told Trevor that knowing that he had flown Daniel's qualified him for this one; and if I wasn't from outside the community right now I would have been happy to send him off. Daniel's is a long reach with a technical set up to hit the right slope of the hill. I really think Edith's Gap is only slightly worse, in non-thermic conditions.
In fact I told Trevor that knowing that he had flown Daniel's qualified him for this one; and if I wasn't from outside the community right now I would have been happy to send him off. Daniel's is a long reach with a technical set up to hit the right slope of the hill. I really think Edith's Gap is only slightly worse, in non-thermic conditions.
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Cool Brian, thanks for the insight. I am looking forward to flying this site!!!! If I don't catch up with you down here in Virginia, hopefully I'll get to catch some airtime with you at one of the Hyner Fly Inns next year.
Jon
Jon
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
I am not sure, but it seems there are many pilots who have not had a chance to walk the site. For those pilots only: here is some extra information (coupled with one opinion). This is only to provide more insight, not to make any argument.
User brianvh landed downwind in order to land uphill on Saturday. Part of why this works so well is because there is a small hill on the other side of the road from the sight, blocking wind from that direction. Due to this feature; even though the wind on launch had picked up to a significant breeze by the time he conducted takeoff, wind in the lower LZ remained negligible. Step into the upper LZ by the garden, and suddenly the gusts return. This wind shadow could be (not yet sure) the thing that makes this site a permanent downwind LZ. The slope is significant (no numbers yet), which does help to stop a downwind landing. Despite the recommendation on landing patterns from brianvh, some future HG pilots on the site will still be more comfortable with a down-slope landing, because that would also mean they are advancing into the wind. For those pilots, the wind shadow will kick in on your final approach, so expect at least a slightly longer glide than usual, and be ready to roll in. For those same pilots, if you go long, you can continue across the driveway under the power lines, so long as no vehicles are parked there when hang gliding is rocking. This parking alteration would have to be a compromise that we could ask for from our PG friends in the interests of our safety.
There is a field about 1/4mi south of the primary LZ that is perfect for HG landings. Although this field just off the main road on the way in, it is private property, so please be courteous and respectful to the land owner by only using it for emergencies (how frequent your emergency landing is is up to you). If you must land in this field, it might be a good idea to carry out to the main road before tearing down.
No one to my knowledge has suggested that removing the trees in the middle of the LZ is a bad idea.
User brianvh landed downwind in order to land uphill on Saturday. Part of why this works so well is because there is a small hill on the other side of the road from the sight, blocking wind from that direction. Due to this feature; even though the wind on launch had picked up to a significant breeze by the time he conducted takeoff, wind in the lower LZ remained negligible. Step into the upper LZ by the garden, and suddenly the gusts return. This wind shadow could be (not yet sure) the thing that makes this site a permanent downwind LZ. The slope is significant (no numbers yet), which does help to stop a downwind landing. Despite the recommendation on landing patterns from brianvh, some future HG pilots on the site will still be more comfortable with a down-slope landing, because that would also mean they are advancing into the wind. For those pilots, the wind shadow will kick in on your final approach, so expect at least a slightly longer glide than usual, and be ready to roll in. For those same pilots, if you go long, you can continue across the driveway under the power lines, so long as no vehicles are parked there when hang gliding is rocking. This parking alteration would have to be a compromise that we could ask for from our PG friends in the interests of our safety.
There is a field about 1/4mi south of the primary LZ that is perfect for HG landings. Although this field just off the main road on the way in, it is private property, so please be courteous and respectful to the land owner by only using it for emergencies (how frequent your emergency landing is is up to you). If you must land in this field, it might be a good idea to carry out to the main road before tearing down.
No one to my knowledge has suggested that removing the trees in the middle of the LZ is a bad idea.
My conversations will never go deeper than the weather.
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
[img]C:\Feild%20Pic\Feild.jpg[/img]
My conversations will never go deeper than the weather.
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Trevor, if you need to get an image on the web so you can post it, try http://www.servimg.com. It's free, and after you hit the button to host the image, a whole bunch of links show up. Just copy the bottom one for the direct link.
I didn't walk the upper field, I assume it's fairly flat because the PG were landing there into the wind. I'd still recommend the upslope landing in the lower field, which as Trevor points out has some wind shadow.
I didn't walk the upper field, I assume it's fairly flat because the PG were landing there into the wind. I'd still recommend the upslope landing in the lower field, which as Trevor points out has some wind shadow.
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
My conversations will never go deeper than the weather.
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
My conversations will never go deeper than the weather.
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
Anybody landing downhill who isn't on the ground before the bottom of the field is probably toast already, though I suppose trees are softer than cars!
Once the clump of trees at the south side of the paragliding area Trevor marked is removed I suppose upwind approaches may be possible for hang gliders, just don't overshoot! I'd still consider this a downwind uphill site - if in doubt start at the lower end of the field (assuming you can reach it) and the slope will take care of you. The upwind approach can be saved for emergencies if drilled by sink or poor judgement...
Once the clump of trees at the south side of the paragliding area Trevor marked is removed I suppose upwind approaches may be possible for hang gliders, just don't overshoot! I'd still consider this a downwind uphill site - if in doubt start at the lower end of the field (assuming you can reach it) and the slope will take care of you. The upwind approach can be saved for emergencies if drilled by sink or poor judgement...
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: Landing a Hang Glider at Edith's Gap
(Apologies for the Off-Topic reply.... But I figured it wouldn't hurt to provide some advice, given that others might have the same problem displaying images within forum posts. Especially given that those photos are likely to be Flying-Related.)
Hi Mobius!
In theory, all you need to do to display an image (hosted somewhere on the 'net) within a forum post is:
The 'magic' that makes this happen looks like this, within the text of the forum post:
Unfortunately, when I try to do this same thing with your photo hosted over at Flickr:
It doesn't seem to work:
Possible reasons:
- Your account at Flickr might be set up such that photos can't be viewed from third-party sites (like our forums). That is, it's a permissions-related issue.
- Flickr might simply not allow for this sort of linking.
But for photo-hosting sites that DO support third-party linking, it's definitely a cool feature!
Cheers,
MarkC
PS: Literally attaching an image to your post, such that it is hosted at CHGPA.org itself, is a completely different beast. CHGPA members should be able to do that. If that you're a member and that doesn't seem to be the case, please open a topic in the Forum and Website HelpDesk forum. Thanks!
Hi Mobius!
In theory, all you need to do to display an image (hosted somewhere on the 'net) within a forum post is:
- Upload the image to your host of choice (Flickr, Picasa, PhotoBucket, etc)
- Once uploaded, browse to the image and copy its URL.
- In your particular case, that URL is: http://www.flickr.com/photos/110415965@N07/11178129253/
- Within the forum, as you are composing your post, paste that URL into the text-box, on its own line.
- Double-click on the URL to highlight it, and then hit the button labelled 'Img'.
- The photo at your photo-hosting provider will now appear within your post.
The 'magic' that makes this happen looks like this, within the text of the forum post:
Code: Select all
[img]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll45/slimpie1972/landscapes%20and%20nature/_MG_0191.jpg[/img]
Code: Select all
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/110415965@N07/11178129253[/img]
Possible reasons:
- Your account at Flickr might be set up such that photos can't be viewed from third-party sites (like our forums). That is, it's a permissions-related issue.
- Flickr might simply not allow for this sort of linking.
But for photo-hosting sites that DO support third-party linking, it's definitely a cool feature!
Cheers,
MarkC
PS: Literally attaching an image to your post, such that it is hosted at CHGPA.org itself, is a completely different beast. CHGPA members should be able to do that. If that you're a member and that doesn't seem to be the case, please open a topic in the Forum and Website HelpDesk forum. Thanks!