Ralph's launch incident

[rs54263]

Regretfully, I had a launch incident of my own on Sunday. Skipping
ahead to the bottom line: I'm ok; I have a small bruise on my left
shin, and Lilah will need to go back to Steve Wendt for more stitches.
I've been asked not to discuss the incident publicly, so as not to
contaminate the recollections of other witnesses, as I will be filing a
report with Joe Gregor.

To that end, if you witnessed this event, could you please send your
recollection of what happened to Joe Gregor at <air_medal@mac.com>? I
would greatly appreciate any additional details to help expand my
understanding of what happened. Once Joe has what he needs, we'll post
a report on what happened.

Thanks,
~Ralph

[batmanh3]

Sorry to hear you had an incident. I know you haven't flown much this summer. High Rock is not a great place to launch when you're not current in the mountains. Glad to hear you are alright.

C

[Matthew]

FYI-- Ralph regrouped flew after his "incident" and had a nice flight. We're talking about the glider incident at launch, right??? Not the embarrasing line dance he did with the wuffos.

Matthew

[hang_pilot]

Can we PLEASE find another way to support our local pros other than busting-up our wings?!

"Hello, thank you for calling Blue Sky Body Shop. My name is Steve Wendt, how may I help you."

Glad you are o.k., Ralph.

~Daniel

[markc]

I was one of the crew for both of Ralph's launches. I sent Ralph
my recollection of events, and will forward to Joe as well.
Things turned out well, but it was pretty scary up there for a minute.

Really glad Ralph went back up there for another shot and then
had a great flight. That takes some grit!

--mark

[stevek]

I think we should all thank the guy with the feather for saving Ralph's life. Or maybe that's a bad idea.

[Spark]

I think we should all thank the guy with the feather for saving Ralph's life. Or maybe that's a bad idea.

That guy with the feather (named 'Michael") was a real trip. I heard he rode his mountain bike up the steps onto the block and right upo to the edge. When I first saw him, he was hanging from the wireman platform by straps around his wrists. He waited too long until his forearms had very little strenght and couldn't get one of the straps undone, so I laid down on the platform and untied it for him. Eddie told me he does this kind of stuff often.

[Matthew]

That guy is just plain dangerous. He was doing crunches and pushups on the grate and someone said he as trying to do a handstand on the grate. After Ralph had been secured and safe he rushed up and grabbed the glider and then later told Ralph that he had saved Ralph's life... when he (featherman) didn't do anything. He wouldn't get off of the block or below the block even when we told him repeatedly. He's gonna get seriously hurt or cause someone to be hurt. Next time don't untie him.

Matthew

[air_medal]

I watched him arrive and carry up his bike onto the cube, walk to the edge, hold it up over his head like he was gonna toss it over, and yell. Pretty crazy looking, but not quite as crazy as rumor is already painting it.

I think we should all thank the guy with the feather for saving Ralph's life. Or maybe that's a bad idea.

That guy with the feather (named 'Michael") was a real trip. I heard he rode his mountain bike up the steps onto the block and right upo to the edge. When I first saw him, he was hanging from the wireman platform by straps around his wrists. He waited too long until his forearms had very little strenght and couldn't get one of the straps undone, so I laid down on the platform and untied it for him. Eddie told me he does this kind of stuff often.

[Spark]

Good point, Joe. From a purely visual perspective, he may not have seemed as crazy as we (pilots) might appear to a first-time observer.

... His narration was also pretty bizarre.

...
Pretty crazy looking, but not quite as crazy as rumor is already painting it.

[Scott]

I understand Ralph withholding the details of his incident...but all this talk about glider repairs, scrapes, crazy nuts with feathers tied to the block, etc. is NOT keeping a damper on the rumor mill! (I'm more than baffled by what could possibly have happened...)

Scott

[deveil]

initially i was worried enough about him to shadow him during a couple of launches-worried that he would physically interfere with a launch. later i talked him off the metal grate, where he was seeming to attempt hand stands on the ramp edge. he responded when i asked that he be concerned that his death would adversely affect the pilots as he assured me he wasn't worried about himself-heaven, god and all that stuff. later he approached me for money and i gave him a few bucks and a sandwich. it paid off when, while acting out at launch, i reminded him that i had come thru for him. the dude obviously craves attention, probably would respond badly to confrontation, seems to respond to a kind word or gesture. sort of like the mp's now that i think of it. ('was on ralphs launch crew and submitted incident report to joe and ralph) that's four cents - i'm outta here. gary

[brianvh]

Matthew already told you about the line dance with the wuffos. How much
more detail could you possibly tolerate?

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Scott wrote:

>
> I understand Ralph withholding the details of his incident...but all this talk about glider repairs, scrapes, crazy nuts with feathers tied to the block, etc. is NOT keeping a damper on the rumor mill! (I'm more than baffled by what could possibly have happened...)
>
> Scott
>

[rs54263]

Well maybe you can pass the time by looking for "non-hang gliding hang
gliding photos" in
<http://photos.sickinger.net/20050820_hi ... index.html>

(Look in 00.general, 01.saturday, and 11.sunday_evening)

~Ralph


================================================================
from: Scott (08/23/2005 09:47)
================================================================

I understand Ralph withholding the details of his incident...but all
this talk about glider repairs, scrapes, crazy nuts with feathers tied
to the block, etc. is NOT keeping a damper on the rumor mill! (I'm
more than baffled by what could possibly have happened...)

Scott

[rs54263]

>> I understand Ralph withholding the details of his incident...but all
this talk about glider repairs, scrapes, crazy nuts with feathers tied
to the block, etc. is NOT keeping a damper on the rumor mill! (I'm
more than baffled by what could possibly have happened...) <<

After completing a hang check, I instructed the wire crew that I wanted
to hear "up, down, or neutral"?to describe what they were feeling, and
that my word would be "clear", I went up on the launch platform. ?I
waited for a "freight train"?gust to finish blowing through, then
picked up and moved forward. ?I could hear indicators from the right
side, but not from the left, so I turned my head to tell the left wire
crew that I need to hear a constant stream of feedback from him. ?While
I was doing this I suddenly felt the right wing going up and forward,
and pulling me toward the edge of the launch platform. ?In the first
few microseconds of panic, I immediately pulled back and braced against
it. ?At some point, that changed to pulling the control bar in and
moving my body to the left corner of the control frame, in an attempt
to force the glider into a

turn back towards the parking lot. ?I
believe the glider rotated through about 100 degrees before stopping,
at which point I became aware of somebody sitting on the launch
platform, with both arms wrapped around the left flying wire, and
yelling for other people to get the the right wing down before the
glider flipped over. ?At this point, I stepped through the
control-frame and grabbed on to the nose wires, to help stabilize the
glider. (Kevin Carter gave me this tip after my last HR incident -
thank you! I do believe it helped; it didn't feel like the glider was
trying to get away as hard any more once I did that.) Shortly
thereafter, I found myself surrounded by about 5 people, all holding on
to the glider, and someone urging me to unhook before we backed the
glider off. ?This we did, and once the glider was down I drank some
water to calm myself, and proceeded to reinspect my wires and leading
edges. ?As noted, the left leading edge is scratched near the tip, but
I couldn't feel any dings or dents in it. ?As I got ready to fly again,
Mark Cavanaugh (who had been my wire crew on the right wing), told me
that he thought he heard me yell "go"?and saw me take a step forward,
and, thinking that I was launching let go of his side. ?[I don't know
what he heard;??it might have been part of my yelling at the left wire
crew, or it might have been something from a spectator, but I surely
did not yell "clear".] ?Someone else said they thought it looked like a
case of ramp suck;??certainly if that was the case, I might have put
one foot forward to brace myself if I felt like I was getting pulled.
?(I might even have said "whoa!"?as an involuntary response.)

In retrospect, I should not have taken my focus off of the glider while
I was still holding it up in a launch position;??instead I should have
set it down, (effectively putting the entire wire crew in
"stand-by"?mode), *then* talked to the left wire crew, and then picked
up again for a new launch attempt.

I do not know the pilot who was on the left wire, but he was tied in,
and I had watched him launch at least 3 or 4 gliders before me while I
was taking pictures, so it appeared to me that he knew what he was
doing. ?There was a large crowd of spectators, and with the wind
blowing, it was noisy enough that I couldn't hear wire crew calls from
my shooting position, like I normally would.

This was my mountain flight since last Fall, though I had spent two
days in April at Oregon Ridge doing launch and landing practice, and
hadn't had any issues with my launch techniques. ?Although the wind was
strong at times, there were plenty of smooth, launchable cycles.
?Having seen at least two Hang II pilots launch with older Falcons
earlier in the day, I felt that the conditions were very reasonable,
and I had waited until later in the day for mellower air.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Having said all of this, I think what *might* have happened is this:
either while I was talking to the left wire crew, or just as I was
finishing, a gust got under the tail, unexpectedly pulling me forward.
(Ramp suck.) My instinctive reaction to that would be to put one foot
forward to brace against it, and I very likely would have said "whoa!",
just as an automatic exclamation. I can't say for sure if I said this
or not; just that it would be in character for me to do so in that
situation. Unfortunately, the forward motion (couple with what would
have sounded like "go!") was incorrectly interpreted as an intent to
launch, but 2/3 of my wire crew. From what I've heard, many pilots
launch this way, so the interpretation was not unwarranted.

My thoughts on this: I think that we (as a community) should endeavor
to standardize on one (and only one) word to use as an indicator for
launching. (The word "clear" seems to be the most common, it is fairly
unambiguous, so is less likely to be confused with anything else - like
"whoa" and "go", and has a precedent that goes back to the Wright
Brothers.) I think that any pilot who tries to launch without using
his predetermined launch word should get as far as half a step forward,
and then find himself still firmly anchored to the launch platform.

This is not to dismiss my own errors; I've now seen Gary's version of
what happened. His description of his expected role as the tail person
does *not* match what I thought he would be doing back there! And that
is purely my fault, as I did not explain what I wanted, and didn't
think to clarify the expression that he used. (He asked if I wanted
him to be active, or just to operate in "Savior" mode. I chose the
latter. To him that meant that he was not to take action until/unless
I audibly asked for help. To me that meant that he would grab and save
it if really started to get away - say more than 6-8" of travel. For
instance, if I was succumbing to "ramp-suck".

Another observation: afterwards I pointed out to the new wire crew,
that they could expect me NOT to launch until both sides had said
"neutral". I'm told that many pilots will launch when they have "up"
on both wings. That seems dicey to me; if the wire crew is feeling
"up", then they are necessarily exerting a "down" force on the wires,
counteracting some of the wind's up-force. Which in turn implies that
you, the pilot, are not feeling all of the wind force on the wings;
since there is no quantitative way to know if both wire crew are
exerting identical down-forces or not, there is no way to know if the
wings are truly balanced or not. I have never launched without
"neutral" calls from both sides. If I'm consistently getting "up" from
_both_ sides, then I lower the nose a little, and that generally gets
the wings to balance properly. Isn't this how it's always supposed to
work, or does this only work for me because I fly a Falcon?

~Ralph

[Flying Lobster]

Launching at HR is really not that complicated. The more complicated pilots view it--the more likely they will have a bad launch. In fact, HR is the safest and easiest launch we have, IMO.

Like any launch anywhere, it all boils down to AOA of the glider to the relative wind. The only fly in the ointment is that you have a cliff face with sometimes turbulence cause of the (if present) cross.

This means you must recognize that AOA will likely change as the glider transitions the front of the cube. This means this change will likely vary along the span of the wing if the wind is the least bit dynamic or crossing.

You safely launch from HR by having the wings evenly loaded. Simple as that. If you cannot feel the degree of loading--wire or crew or not--and not intuitively know that the wing is evenly loaded--then you're launches are going to be a toss of the dice and eventually you'll come up snake-eyes.

I personally don't pay attention to what the wire crew says in terms of pressure--just hold the wings level--or more precisely don't let the wing get lifted past level. Also, many pilots will inadvertantly push out either by falling into their harnesses (and pushing out) as they go over the edge or by over-accelerating their launch runs. Speed off the cube is largely unnecessary--you trade altitude for speed once you dive off. Much better to get as close as possible to the edge in order to get a better feel and trasition into the winds at the edge.

On the subject of wire crews--after instructing them on the SIMPLE things I expect, I always tell them that at any time they feel uncomfortable with the situation to let me know and I'll back off of launch. I've done it many times. They are there to help my sorry ass--but it is not their responsibility to see to it that I have a safe launch. Because of this I will try to minimize my time on launch and exposure to danger to both myself and the wire crew. Usually, I will study conditions carefully and have already mentally visualized exactly what I'm going to do before I get out on launch, thereby minimizing time and uncertainty on launch. I'd say that more often than not I'll launch within a minute or two if the winds aren't blasting or totally dead (i.e. wait for that thermal) once I pick up the glider on launch.

I've done lots of launches at HR over a period of more than a decade, and this approach has worked for me every time. Generally, launch is a high-stress situation and the longer you're out there the greater the likelyhood of something going wrong, IMO.

marc

[deveil]

this is what i learned from my mentors.
first of all, when you take your glider onto launch, TAKE COMMAND OF LAUNCH - after all it's your ass.
set down at the 'observational' position and take a minute to reassess conditions (which you are already familiar with) and instruct your wire crew. confirm for yourself that they know what you want, you're talking to these individuals, not the drive-up speaker at mcdonalds.
tell them you'll be announcing everything that you will do and tell them what the announcements will be - develop a routine for yourself. use the same routine regardless of whether it's friends or strangers. assume nothing. don't be self consciously tentative. once again, take command of launch, it will not only provide clarity for others it will also contribute to putting you in the proper frame of mind for launching. it's your ass, they know it's your ass. when it's all said and done, you want that people respect your launch (but be humble in asking for feedback, make people comfortable about smacking you in the head if they feel you need to be smacked in the head, take it and say thank you.)
as you learn your process, don't go till you're ready to go. if you have to potato, potato. just don't intend for it to be part of your process and acknowledge your appreciation of others patience. at least if you are potatoing the glider is on the ground and you are rooted, not dancing. who ever heard of a dancing potato.
on launch tell your crew, i'll be walking the glider up to launch point and setting it down. i'll want their help with that. when i say GIVE ME THE GLIDER i won't want any input unless you feel you need to bring a wing down to keep things safe (bullets happen), in which case, ANNOUNCE it. in this method, if a wingman feels compelled to act, you will be bringing the wing down. in actuality, you will be calling for the GLIDER to be brought down before ,or as, a wingman feels compelled to act or speak, because you don't want that glider to feel unbalanced any time it is off the ground.
when the glider is down, have the nose down just enough that you alone can pretty much keep it stable. if you want a break or have to wait out some stuff tell the crew you want them to hold it down.
i learned a sort of 'roll-up' technique. when the glider is on the ramp and you have it yourself, you can feel if the wings are balanced (loaded equally), even with the nose down. ease the nose up till it becomes light enough to pick up. continue bringing it up, picking it up, to the proper angle of attack. if it FEELS good, take two 'beats' - CLEAR AND GO! the two beats are to make sure you are good, that the crew isn't doing something you don't want, that you are not lunging and that you are clearing before you launch. your vocalization of clear should be such that it blows your crew back and blows out any part of your mental process that isn't with you right then, right there. it should serve the same function as the vocalization used in karate and now quite often in tennis.
keep that balanced FEEL continuously as you roll up, pick up, take two beats and launch. if at any point you lose that FEELING, ANNOUNCE, I'M BRINGING IT DOWN. begin again. don't ramp dance. you are either picking up and launching or you're down.
when you want to pick up, ANNOUNCE. say GIVE ME THE GLIDER. say I'M PICKING UP. keep that balanced FEEL continuously as you roll up, pick up, and launch. if at any point you lose that FEELING, ANNOUNCE, I'M BRINGING IT DOWN.
prior to your intention to launch, ANNOUNCE to the crew that you are going to pick up to get a feel for things. this is a dry run to assure yourself of how you want the glider to feel, to get a visualization of what your AoA will be, to run through a sharp visualization of exactly what you are going to be doing and how things should feel the next time you pick the glider up (to launch).
i know all this (or variations) have been said before and will be said again. it should be. i just felt like doing it this time. i very much enjoyed watching all the flying at the hi-rock fly-in. thanks
and if that lobster guy http://chgpa.org/forums/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif is actually doing something worth emulating then i guess one should even listen to him (jjyyeeesh! that was hard to say)http://chgpa.org/forums/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif. after all, you're learning flying, not statesmanship.

[brianvh]

The only thing I'd take issue with in Gary's long list of advice is the
idea that you should feel like you can hold the glider in position before you
launch. This is what got Chris McKee in trouble: he raised the nose until
it felt comfortable, but this meant he was launching into a stall. In
many cases when the glider is ready to fly it will feel like it's being
pulled forward and up. It's safe to launch then, but you have to have a
wire crew that will release instantly upon your bellowed "CLEAR". Ramp
suck can be your friend (it just means the glider is attempting to fly in
a rotated orientation), but you need experienced wire crew.

Unless the pilot's holding the glider down, I don't think you can get
neutral on both wires unless the nose is pointing straight down into the
wind, and we don't like to launch like that. I wonder if Ralph's system
of waiting until he hears neutral really means he's just got control of
the glider rather than he has a neutral orientation.

If you're fighting to control the glider you can raise the nose to
relieve pressure as you pull the glider back to take a rest, but must lower
it again as you resume launch position to fight with the bucking broncos.
Otherwise you're "In the Tree with Chris McKee".

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

[Scott]

Regarding the word "CLEAR!" with wire crews...I've been wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to use "Ready! CLEAR!" --- two words, always back-to-back, instead of one? (Does anyone do this now?)

Though a wire crew must be alert at all times, it still seems logical to me to give the crew a "heads up" word ("Ready!") followed by the launch word ("CLEAR!").

I say this also because I've witnessed many launches where the pilot literally started sprinting at the very same moment they yelled "CLEAR!" which doesn't seem like a safe habit.

Also---and please note I do NOT say this as "an experienced mountain pilot" which I am not---but is split-second timing really that critical on mountain launches? In other words, are there really situations where your launch "window" lasts for 1 second, and you MUST launch in that 1-second window? I don't mean to be facetious---but sometimes watching people it almost seems that way (hence the "CLEAR" and sprinting happening at exactly the same time).

I mean, if a wing is likely to get blown in 1 second, should you be launching? If so, then this seems like even more reason to always use "Ready! CLEAR!"

Scott

PS - By the way, this is NOT intended to be any form of criticism of anyone! So please don't take it that way.

[brianvh]

For once, Scott, I think you've got it right.

I often use the 'ready-clear' combination, though the 'ready' is often
quite a bit softer. I never tell my wire crew I'll say 'ready' because
it's not ingrained enough in me that I won't shout 'clear' without it.
In turbulent conditions pilots are often waiting for that fleeting magical
moment when things feel right. Personally I think if the windows are that
short you shouldn't be launching. Doesn't mean I haven't done it.

And those folks who start to sprint before they shout 'clear' are &$#!
dangerous. Wrong mindset.

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

[Matthew]

Scott,

Lots of people do say Ready, CLEAR! You need to come out to the mountains sometime. You also need to do lots of wire crewing at cliff and ramp launch sites to see various launches. I was very impressed with John Simon at the HR Fly-In. He spent several hous wire crewing and then asked for additional advice before his first launch at HR.

As to a few seconds. Sometimes you only have about a minute, or even just 30 seconds, for a good launch cycle. A lot of that is taken up by picking up the glider and getting it balanced. Thus you may only have a few seconds when conditions are optimal for launching. But you have to spend the time watching the cycles to make this determination beforehand.

And a note of caution, never launch unless the glider feels balanced and level to you and the crew is saying the same thing. Don't rely on the crews input alone. Likewise, if it is very switchy, don't leap when you get one instant when the wire crew are giving the same input. You want to hear a few seconds of consistant input from the wire crew in combination with feeling the glider level and balanced.

But then again, these things need to be experienced, by either crewing or launching, and not just read on a forum.

Matthew

[heaviek]

Am I missing something here? Raising the nose is going to make the glider
even more unstable if it is trying to raise a wing.

Kev C

-----Original Message-----
From: Vant-Hull - Brian [mailto:brianvh@umd5.umd.edu]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:05 PM
To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
Subject: Re: Ralph's launch incident

If you're fighting to control the glider you can raise the nose to relieve
pressure as you pull the glider back to take a rest, but must lower it again
as you resume launch position to fight with the bucking broncos.
Otherwise you're "In the Tree with Chris McKee".

[deveil]

i had really intended to leave it at 'emulate the good guys' but got caught up in the idea of trying to relate the nuts and bolts of HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT having a process of maintaining balance, having equal loading, having control, having a clean, no drama launch?
indeed there are nuances and adaptations. but i didn't intend to be specific about hi-rock.
but i really should bow out here. i haven't been current for a good while so i'll respectfully leave further discussion to others who are. if i were current i might have grounds to discuss these points, but in fact i'm not and i don't (there, i just smacked myself in the head (smile))
my main point would be that there were/are those who have strong, consistent, well controlled, low drama launches (not that anyone would intend a cavalier launch technique). the only place to learn them are from those who perform them. look for those people, buy them a beer , pick their brains.

[brianvh]

I'm not talking about when the glider is raising a wing, but when it feels
like it's being pulled forward. There's two points where the horizontal
force disappears: one is when the the angle of attack is zero so there's
basically no force, and the other is when the nose is approximately as far
above the horizontal as the incoming wind is below the horizontal. If you
don't believe this second point exists, think what happens if you raise
the nose way high: you get blown backwards. Yet with small positive
angles of attack you feel drawn forward (ramp suck). This second balance
point is in between, with a pure upward force.

When we launch on a slope we typically hold the nose near this second
point. Too low and the glider outflies your launch run (forward
horizontal force), too high and it's too draggy to launch (backwards
horizontal force). On a cliff the air is coming more vertically,
so you have to hold you nose a little higher to find this point.
Unfortunately this may put you near a stall on a cliff launch.

On a cliff launch this second point should only be used as a resting
point. Chris found this point a little too comfortable while trying to
launch once, and fortunately was not injured during the stall.

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Kevin wrote:

>
> Am I missing something here? Raising the nose is going to make the glider
> even more unstable if it is trying to raise a wing.
>
> Kev C
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vant-Hull - Brian [mailto:brianvh@umd5.umd.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:05 PM
> To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
> Subject: Re: Ralph's launch incident
>
> If you're fighting to control the glider you can raise the nose to relieve
> pressure as you pull the glider back to take a rest, but must lower it again
> as you resume launch position to fight with the bucking broncos.
> Otherwise you're "In the Tree with Chris McKee".
>
>
>
>

[brianvh]

You've got more than enough experience to be in on the discussion, gary.
I was just worried that people might try to launch when the glider's
feeling too comfortable on the rock - might be dangerous. Don't think you
said anything wrong, just needed some clarification on one small point.

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, deveil wrote:

>
> i had really intended to leave it at 'emulate the good guys' but got caught up in the idea of trying to relate the nuts and bolts of HOW DOES ONE GO ABOUT having a process of maintaining balance, having equal loading, having control, having a clean, no drama launch?
> indeed there are nuances and adaptations. but i didn't intend to be specific about hi-rock.
> but i really should bow out here. i haven't been current for a good while so i'll respectfully leave further discussion to others who are. if i were current i might have grounds to discuss these points, but in fact i'm not and i don't (there, i just smacked myself in the head (smile))
> my main point would be that there were/are those who have strong, consistent, well controlled, low drama launches (not that anyone would intend a cavalier launch technique). the only place to learn them are from those who perform them. look for those people, buy them a beer , pick their brains.
>