The Future of Our Sport

[jimrooney]

> (Daniel) Sounds like a good winter task for the Highland team. Very Happy I understand the airport manager doesn?t want any static towing. Is that the only thing that keeps you guys out of the scoter tow business?

Um... the way I see things, it's the chgpa club that could use a scooter.
Not saying that I won't ever build one, but my point is that the club would benifit far more than Highland.

The reasons we don't currently have one:
Not a high priority... we don't really need one. It would be nice, but we don't need it.
Money. Scooters are expensive.
Time. You gonna run it? I'm in the tandem glider when students are around.
Lines. Yup, definately an issue at an airport.

Now for someone looking to find a training hill... now all you need is a big field. Show up at an event (airshow etc) with it. Wow your friends and neighbors. All the cool kids have one :)

[huddlec]

I think we should put ads for hang gliding?in the other risky sport mags.? ("Ready for a real?challenge??Learn to hang glide.")? That's the type who's attracted to hang gliding.?I had my first lesson in 1975 after hearing about it on the radio. I dragged the husband and a neighbor with me and we all took a lesson. At the time I was also into long distance motorcycling, scuba diving, white water rafting, xc skiing (broke my leg doing that), and had already done a parachute jump.
?
And for those of you who like racy Flytec ads, I've made up a couple for the women in the sport, with the help of a well-endowed friend of mine.? ("Get it up with a Flytec vario."? "Stay on top longer with a Flytec vario.")? If you want to see them, let me know and I'll send it to you.?X-rated. Sorry, this offer only?for women. heh heh
Christy
?


jimrooney <jimrooney@gmail.com> wrote:

> Granted, you can be bad at these sports and just float on easy rivers or climb 4.0 routes

Uh... that "little difference" makes all the difference in the world. Imagine if all kyakers had to start in rapids. How many people would take it up? If it wasn't easy to be bad at those sports, there would be far fewer people in them. It's kinda THE reason.

Cuz, ya know, being really good at Ping Pong takes a lot of perseverance and sacrifice.

Come on, you've got to be kidding me.

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[brianvh]

We need information to reach the right people, not advertising. I think a
billboard on rt 50 for tandem HG lessons would do wonders - someone has to
actually know it exists before they look it up on the internet.

Maybe USHGA should do a national TV spot or two, if we can afford it,
which I doubt. But it doesn't have to be slick, it just has to say
lessons are available: 1-800-hanglide or whatever that number is, and show
an example of footlaunch and tandem.

Brian Vant-Hull
301-646-1149

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, jimrooney wrote:

>
> You know how you can tell if a tandem is going to sign up for lessons? They ALL say the same thing (before they go)... "Man, I've wanted to do this my whole life". EVERY SINGLE ONE.
>

[Richard Hays]

Didn't either Toyota or Nissan have a commercial featuring a 4x4 pounding
thru mud and then a glider flying in the background at the end? About 5
years ago?


>From: Sheila Gardner <sheilaboyle@yourinter.net>
>Reply-To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
>To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
>Subject: Re: The Future of Our Sport
>Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:47:17 -0400
>
>I submitted an idea for a tv advertisement years ago to a car
>manufacturer where a car/suv/truck is driving through all kinds of
>bad roads to get to a launch - with hg'er on top. Get to launch -
>launch the glider and then in the lz the pilot takes off her helmet.
>Never heard back but could be worth a try again to the right
>manufacturer - or all of them! Sheila
>
>
>On Aug 16, 2005, at 4:50 PM, Mike Balk wrote:
>
> >
> > 1% of all boys are boy scouts, and only 1% of those make Eagle Scout.
> > (reminiscent of the Few, the Proud). That means that Eagle Scouts are
> > elite, if only for their few numbers, it isn't that hard to achieve
> > for a
> > motivated person.
> >
> > How many people pilot aircraft in the US, and what percent of those
> > pilot HG
> > or PG? Maybe rather than trying to be all-inlcusive, we should
> > advertise
> > how elite we are. (Picture a TV ad with someone putting their HG
> > on the car
> > and someone asks "What is that? And in a proud and knowing grin the
> > response: "A Hang Glider!" The thought "Wow, that is cool, I wish
> > I could
> > be like you!)
> >
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hepcat1989 [mailto:hepcat88@innernet.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 4:40 PM
> > To: hg_forum@chgpa.org
> > Subject: The Future of Our Sport
> >
> >
> > Matthew, my point is that ,with that temporary influx of people..
> > How many
> > of them would have the drive, and determination to stick with it!
> > That means
> > the lessons, the fatiqued muscles after, or during training hill
> > day the
> > equipment cost. Some of those people may show up for lessons, and
> > say yeah
> > that was neat, and then off they go.How many would stick with it
> > until the
> > moment that your skills are put to the test. Your solo-- now that's
> > a big
> > one. Anyone that flies, and including the few new ones that get
> > serious
> > about it, have something inside. I think "That SOMETHING" inside is
> > falling
> > away. I don't know man, just what I feel. [Question]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Scott]

We need information to reach the right people, not advertising. I think a billboard on rt 50 for tandem HG lessons would do wonders

[Not directed at you Brian! ] A billboard is advertising! Targeting people in other adventure sports is advertising! It's ALL advertising! Getting info to the right people is called "targeted advertising." So I guess what folks are objecting to is "untargeted advertising."

It's important to remember that advertising isn't a "one shot deal." Too many people think it is---they put an ad somewhere, get no calls from it, and throw up their hands and say "Well, that doesn't work!"

Much of the time, the purpose of advertising is not to get people to show up to a lesson or call an instructor. The purpose is to simply plant the seed in someone's head...so that when (or if) they decide to take a lesson (or someone they know decides to take a lesson)...they will have seen the advertisement many times (because it was run every month for a year)...and they'll automatically know (for example) that there is a flight park in Ridgely that offers lessons.

Another thought to consider: A 2% return on any form of marketing or advertising is considered great! This is an industry standard. So if you run an ad in the Washington Post that is seen by 100 people and only 2 of them respond, that's a big success. (And a 2% return is usually not achieved.)

Anyway, I'm fine with the club not advertising (really!)...but I wanted to clarify one of the purposes of advertising.

I think a billboard would be awesome...but I have no clue what one costs to rent...anyone have any idea?

Scott

PS - Here's an idea for area instructors: gather the names/addresses of all students who took a lesson or two and never came back. Send them a brief questionnaire, or (even easier) a postcard pointing them to a questionnaire online (easy to set up). Give them a few multiple-choice questions, like...

Why didn't you continue your hang gliding lessons? (Circle all that apply.)
a) couldn't afford it
b) too much work
c) not enough time
d) don't think I'm any good at it
e) it scared me

Then, offer them a free lesson, or free 1000' tandem flight or something if they'll come back and sign up for another lesson package.

Might be worth a try?

[SheilaGardner]

This is from an article about Al Gore's Current TV network . . .?
>Most of its programming will be in ?pods,? roughly two to seven minutes long, covering topics like jobs, technology, spirituality and current events. >An Internet-like on-screen progress bar will show the pod?s length.
>Its short films include a profile of a hang glider and a piece on working in a fish market. One contributor talked about what it was like to have his >phone number on a hacked Internet list of Paris Hilton?s cell phone contacts, saying that dealing with curiosity seekers was like ?hosting your own >radio call-in show.?
On Aug 16, 2005, at 10:31 PM, Scott wrote:

There's been a lot of talk about how difficult it is to become a HG/PG pilot, how much perseverance it takes, etc. That's all true...but it takes no less to become a good whitewater kayaker or a good rock climber. Granted, you can be bad at these sports and just float on easy rivers or climb 4.0 routes...but to be good at any sport requires (in my opinion) an equal amount of hard work, sacrifice, etc.


So this isn't much of an argument to me. That leaves...
- money (definitely a big barrier)
- places to do it (another big barrier)
- (mis)perception that it's suicidal


...which might be addressed by...
- club-owned gliders (to let people use 'til they're hooked?)
- find more training hills, acquire more sites (I know---not easy)
- educate people about the sport's (comparative) safety


Scott

[silverwings]

Quite a lot of posts and some good suggestions. I forwarded to Wills Wing the suggestion about Hang Glider on the bag. Concerning advertising: At the kite festival on the mall over the years, lots of info has been given out and virtually NO ONE has come to take a class. At one time the Washington Post use to post in the Weekend section events free (on their discretion) and I would occasionally get hang glide instruction listed and a call now and then. The last few times I sent to them, they didn't post it. With the Web now, most people find my school via the internet. The idea of a bill board on RT 50 showing a tandem flight sounds like it could have some value especially for Highland. Matthew's articles are always good, and do generate a call now and then.

As far as the club having a glider for people to use, we in effect have a Mark IV-19 donated by Dave Proctor at my location but it would only be used for non beginner pilots and so far it's just been sitting. A trainer type glider is not a good idea, because almost all students before Hang 1.5 should be under instruction and the schools provide the equipment (probably in better condition/maintained).

The suggestion about pilots hanging out/flying at the training hills is good and when it has happened it has been an encouragement for the students. Particularly if the interact with the students.

I believe the biggest problem we have in this area is the lack of close in accessible training areas. A lot of people (until the get hooked) are not willing to spend entire days going perhaps hours to a training hill or flight park. I believe a lot of people don't go for a second class because of the time issue and because foot launch training is more physically demanding then they imagined. It might be good, to have a survey to find out exactly why they don't continue. I am even amazed of how many come to a ground school and then don't take a flight class (still probably the time issue).

I do not believe money is a major issue because most students don't initially realize what the costs are going to be in the long run. I have had a few people (late teens/early 20's) where they haven't been able to go regularly because of funds but most people if hang gliding is a priority, they will find the funds.

I got the following response from Mike at Wills Wing:
Hi John,

The reason not to do it is that it costs money, which ultimately has to be passed along to the pilot. If it would actually produce growth in the sport, it would be worth it. So let me ask you the following questions, to illuminate the possible answer to whether it would produce growth in the sport or not:

1) When they ask you at the gas station what it is, and you tell them, do they ask you where they can learn to do it? And if they do ask where they can learn, and you tell them, do you ever see them out on the training hill or at the flying site?
2) When they ask you at the gas station what it is, and you tell them, do the say "Hang Gliding? I never heard of that." or do they say "Oh Yeah, Hang Gliding, I've always thought that would be fun, but I'm a) too old, b) too poor, c) too scared, d) fill in your own.

In my thirty-one years of answering these types of questions, it's been my experience that:

1) Most people have at least heard of hang gliding.
2) Most people express at least some level of interest in or fascination with the idea of hang gliding.
3) Most people are smart enough to look in the yellow pages, or go on line, and find hang gliding if they really want to.
4) Most people don't really want to.

The idea that the sport would grow if only we could get the word out has been around for as long as I've been around in the sport. I've never seen any evidence that it's true. Our local and regional newspapers run stories on hang gliding every couple of years. We never see any significant spike in participation as a result of those. The movie To Fly, containing perhaps the best, most inspiring hang gliding footage ever shot, has been showing continuously at the Smithsonian for 30 years. Probably a million people have seen it. We've had a full length feature Hollywood film (Skyriders) and a two hour prime time TV season opener episode on a major weekly series (Eight Is Enough). Tom Tatum has produced numerous documentary shows for cable television. We've all done mall shows, trade shows, taught college courses, etc. We have about a dozen major flight park operations across the country now where the public exposure of the sport is significant. I don't think our problem is lack of exposure, I think it's lack of appeal. Until we're ready to change the fundamental nature of the sport to make it more appealing to a broader cross section of people, it's not going to grow.

-Mike

[Scott]

Great comments John! Your experiences obviously carry some weight. Here's a thought regarding Mike's (at Wills Wing) comments...

I've seen little to none of all the movies, documentaries, commercials, etc. that feature hang gliding. So I don't know for sure...but...I'd hazard a guess that much of the audiovisual media that's been produced on the sport (or featured the sport) has not focused on the "new pilot experience."

A video piece, for example, that focused exclusively on the intense, personal drama/achievement of someone doing their first flight (be it training hill, scooter tow, or first high flight) would be far more compelling to the average non-flying audience than footage of H4's doing aerobatics and/or cliff launches, etc.

I almost cried after my first high flight. Perhaps some people do. That's the kind of moving, emotional impact that a hang gliding video needs to have...not just experienced pilots whooping it up. It's got to say, loudly and clearly (in their own words, ideally)...that here is a normal person, who never imagined they could fly, and now they're actually flying!

Again---I say this because I really think a lot of people think hang gliding is simply unattainable for them---which is why they never even make the first phonecall. They lump it into the same category with "trapeze artist," "astronaut," and "Pro NBA Player!"

Scott

[Matthew]

I made the same suggestion to WW years ago and their answer was the same. No. It would cost too much.. They said the same thing about building a new generation or VG small gliders after my numerous suggestions to them over the years. But now we have the small Sport 2. WW makes great gliders. But my impressions from dealing with them over the years is that they always say no to anyone else's suggestions. The truth of the matter is that it would only cost a few bucks, if that, to press a couple of flexible iron on stickers to each bag. WW doesn't want to do it simply becuase they don't want to do it.

Matthew

[Scott]

I might just try that with my glider bag---just design something, then try an inkjet iron-on transfer!

Scott

PS - I've actually had a couple people come up and say "Is that a hang glider?" and I was blown away at their (seemingly educated) guess!

[Scott]

I just want to say a big thank you to everyone! We've had 3 pages of replies to this thread...and (amazingly, considering I started it) they've all been very peaceful and civil!

Could this be a "new era of civility" on the CHGPA forum? (Or are you guys just cutting me some slack? <grin>)

Scott

[mcelrah]

Nah, you're a jerk! (kidding, kidding) - Hugh

On 17 Aug 2005, at 21:24, Scott wrote:

>
> I just want to say a big thank you to everyone! We've had 3 pages
> of replies to this thread...and (amazingly, considering I started
> it) they've all been very peaceful and civil!
>
> Could this be a "new era of civility" on the CHGPA forum? (Or
> are you guys just cutting me some slack? <grin>)
>
> Scott
>

[rancerupp]

Lance Armstrong update...

I routed the idea of getting Lance in to HG to Martin Beresford which was passed on to Lisa Tate and on to Jayne. Attached is the response I received from Jayne. Although, this would be but one of many changes that need to take place, it does look positive.

Rance



Subject: RE: Growing the sport
From: "Jayne DePanfilis" <jayne@ushga.org>
Date: Thu, August 18, 2005
To: "'Martin Beresford'" <beresford@sbcglobal.net>

The Carmichael training center is located downtown COS about 5 minutes from the office building. I?d love to approach Lance Armstrong. What a great idea. I know someone who can approach him. I will be visiting with the publishers of Rock and Ice magazine this week as well. The publishers have expressed an interest in discussing marketing for niche market sports. I have a good friend who knows them.

Jayne