LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
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thermalup
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- Location: Jim Gibson, currently located in NW Michigan but slowly moving to VA during the next couple of years
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LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
Greetings CHGPA flyers, I am keeping an eye on the forecast for Thursday and/or Friday at Woodstock (if the road snow has melted by then). Since I am living down near Waynesboro until the end of April I am wondering if anyone has any waypoints for allowable XC landable fields heading south from Woodstock. I would also like to know if there are any 'keep out' fields as well. Additionally, if anyone could tell me proper protocol in regards to landing at the 'bridge LZ' if the primary Woodstock LZ is exceptionally turbulent. Thx Much for any information. ..::Jim
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
Hi Jim, and welcome to the area!
I wouldn't worry much about "allowable" fields as you head south from Woodstock on a ridge run. I've never heard of anyone having problems with landowners if they have to put it on the deck short of Harrisonburg.... Heck, quite the opposite, all of my experiences, and those I've heard of, have been very positive/flyer-friendly.
But what you *do* have to worry about is whether you can make it to any LZ at all!
After jumping the Edinburg gap, if you are low and you are past the LZs within the gap... Well, there's really _nothing_ available until you get at least halfway down Short Mountain.
And at the end of Short (at Mt. Jackson), when you jump back to the next ridge downwind.... There's *nowhere* to land if you are low, until you get to the New Market gap.
On a good day with solid ridge lift and/or thermals, all of this can be moot. But on other days, you can find yourself in a really tight spot. What sort of glider are you flying?
MarkC
I wouldn't worry much about "allowable" fields as you head south from Woodstock on a ridge run. I've never heard of anyone having problems with landowners if they have to put it on the deck short of Harrisonburg.... Heck, quite the opposite, all of my experiences, and those I've heard of, have been very positive/flyer-friendly.
But what you *do* have to worry about is whether you can make it to any LZ at all!
After jumping the Edinburg gap, if you are low and you are past the LZs within the gap... Well, there's really _nothing_ available until you get at least halfway down Short Mountain.
And at the end of Short (at Mt. Jackson), when you jump back to the next ridge downwind.... There's *nowhere* to land if you are low, until you get to the New Market gap.
On a good day with solid ridge lift and/or thermals, all of this can be moot. But on other days, you can find yourself in a really tight spot. What sort of glider are you flying?
MarkC
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
One time I landed in the last field before the vast sea of trees, just north of the Edinberg gap.The field has a pond and a pool at the edge. I was informed by the hired hand that I had better get myself out of there because the owner would not be pleased. He seemed pretty emphatic about it. He got his pickup and carried me and my glider to the locked gate at the end of the long driveway that crossed the river. It is a field to avoid.
Randy
Randy
Keep Calm And Soar On
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
Good gouge Randy and Mark! Thanks.
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thermalup
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:25 pm
- Location: Jim Gibson, currently located in NW Michigan but slowly moving to VA during the next couple of years
- Contact:
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
Thank you for the tips/suggestions. It sounds like, for the most part, the landowners in the Shenandoah Valley are flyer-friendly. Last year I flew with the TTT pilots and they mentioned that some landowners in their valley around Henson's Gap now threaten to call the police if the pilots don't pay them a 'landing fee'. Mark, I have a Litespeed S3 and a Space 14 (a European glider which is equivalent to a Sport 2 in performance). I'll be flying the lower performing glider for now as I learn the character of your primary LZ but I'll be ready for some XC if the right day develops. Thank you for the 'head's up' on the lack of landable real estate past the ends of the gaps. I'll definitely spend more time reviewing Google Earth!
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
Thanks for asking about fields and protocols when flying at Woodstock. With regard to landing at the bridge field and the primary, I have a few bits of advice.
The primary our preferred place to land because we have clear permission to land there. While the landowner of the bridge field has not objected recently to landing there, it looks like it has been planted with a crop and he may object if that became a de facto primary LZ. I try to limit my landings there to days when I am hiking back up or a weekday flight by myself or a very few others. And, of course, we should not land there if it would damage a crop. That field was off limits for many years due to an encounter between the land owner and a pilot who didn't act appropriately. I just want to make sure that we don't over use our privilege to land there. When we do land there, please try to get off the field to break down. You can use the grass on the side of the road or carry back to the downwind side of the field where there is a larger grass area, especially if you landed short. However, if there is a group of pilots coming and can set up a shuttle, I would suggest landing in the main LZ.
In case folks are concerned about difficulties landing in the main LZ, I would like share a couple of approach tips that have been acquired from over 200 landings in the primary and maybe 10 in the bridge field. I would say that I have had the same number of whacks in both fields! I think the primary is a nice landing field. It has a nice up hill final approach and a pretty wide downwind/base approaches. The keys to landing well there is (1) to maintain good speed on the downwind and base legs so that you can correct for any turbulence (remember, we fly Woodstock in strong winds so any landing in any field would tend to be turbulent), and (2) be prepared for a wind gradient. In fact, I no longer try to land short there due to the wind gradient. Instead, I aim to land at the top of the hill so that I will see a little more wind when I flare. When setting up for my final, I look to the big oak at the bottom of the field and try to turn inside and a little above that tree. At that height, I usually land well below the top of the hill - and yes, I am trying to start my final a little higher so that I will land on top of the hill. The main source of trouble that I have experienced when landing is when there is a strong but cross wind in the LZ. A rotor can develop off the trees and ridge to the upwind side of the field. To address that issue, I just try to land to the side of the field that is downwind of the cross. It seems to help somewhat with that turbulence.
Others may have more good tips on landing there, which I would be glad to hear. There is certainly no one best way to land there.
Lastly, on the few days where I thought that landing in the primary would be challenging, I also questioned my decision to fly at all that day.
I have also run the ridge many times and landed out without a problem. This time of year with few crops to worry about, you should be in good shape landing pretty much anywhere.
Take care
Tom
The primary our preferred place to land because we have clear permission to land there. While the landowner of the bridge field has not objected recently to landing there, it looks like it has been planted with a crop and he may object if that became a de facto primary LZ. I try to limit my landings there to days when I am hiking back up or a weekday flight by myself or a very few others. And, of course, we should not land there if it would damage a crop. That field was off limits for many years due to an encounter between the land owner and a pilot who didn't act appropriately. I just want to make sure that we don't over use our privilege to land there. When we do land there, please try to get off the field to break down. You can use the grass on the side of the road or carry back to the downwind side of the field where there is a larger grass area, especially if you landed short. However, if there is a group of pilots coming and can set up a shuttle, I would suggest landing in the main LZ.
In case folks are concerned about difficulties landing in the main LZ, I would like share a couple of approach tips that have been acquired from over 200 landings in the primary and maybe 10 in the bridge field. I would say that I have had the same number of whacks in both fields! I think the primary is a nice landing field. It has a nice up hill final approach and a pretty wide downwind/base approaches. The keys to landing well there is (1) to maintain good speed on the downwind and base legs so that you can correct for any turbulence (remember, we fly Woodstock in strong winds so any landing in any field would tend to be turbulent), and (2) be prepared for a wind gradient. In fact, I no longer try to land short there due to the wind gradient. Instead, I aim to land at the top of the hill so that I will see a little more wind when I flare. When setting up for my final, I look to the big oak at the bottom of the field and try to turn inside and a little above that tree. At that height, I usually land well below the top of the hill - and yes, I am trying to start my final a little higher so that I will land on top of the hill. The main source of trouble that I have experienced when landing is when there is a strong but cross wind in the LZ. A rotor can develop off the trees and ridge to the upwind side of the field. To address that issue, I just try to land to the side of the field that is downwind of the cross. It seems to help somewhat with that turbulence.
Others may have more good tips on landing there, which I would be glad to hear. There is certainly no one best way to land there.
Lastly, on the few days where I thought that landing in the primary would be challenging, I also questioned my decision to fly at all that day.
I have also run the ridge many times and landed out without a problem. This time of year with few crops to worry about, you should be in good shape landing pretty much anywhere.
Take care
Tom
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thermalup
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:25 pm
- Location: Jim Gibson, currently located in NW Michigan but slowly moving to VA during the next couple of years
- Contact:
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
Tom, thank you for the detailed advice on the Woodstock LZ(s). Truly informative and greatly appreciated.
..::Jim
..::Jim
Re: LZ waypoints for Woodstock XC going south?
I'd like to add-- stay inside the treeline on downwind and base. A lot of pilots fly right over top of the treeline on these legs and a few have been blown out of the field by rotor coming up off the trees. Or have just barely cleared the tops of the trees trying to get back into the field on final. A couple of pilots have ended up not making it into the field and ended up in these trees over the years. The landing option in the flood plain outside the field is not an easy one.
Matthew
Matthew