Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
Re: Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
Sunday turned out to be an interesting day as others already pointed out. We found gusty conditions on launch as forecasted. But as the day progressed, the conditions backed off enough for a few pilots to launch. Dan led the charge with Bacil following second. I launched shortly thereafter thinking conditions were going to be turbulent, but manageable, based on radio communication from the guys already in the sky. After I launched, and as I cleared the slot, I was definitely greeted with routy, choppy conditions. I was able to work past the unstable conditions and then caught the lift elevator where I reached approximately 2,000 feet over launch and much smoother, more enjoyable, air. I pulled on the VG and decided to test wind penetration while hovering above launch. I figured I would be fine with the conditions so I started flying toward Edinburg Gap where Bacil had reported smother conditions earlier on the radio. As I started flying toward the Gap, I was easily maintaining altitude and successfully penetrating forward, so I set my goal to reaching the gap and making it back to the main LZ (something I had not yet accomplished). I continued moving forward, although slowly, and eventually reached the Gap where I found the best lift of the day, topping out at 2,900 feet over launch. I then elected to turn back toward launch, which I made with no problems. I hovered around for a bit longer and then decided to head in as the sun was setting and I was getting a bit cold. I ventured out into the valley thinking the lift would not be as strong, but I still found I had to work to lose altitude. After circling for a while, I made my approach and had a decent landing on my feet in the main LZ around 4:45 pm. I was fortunate in that by the time I headed in to land, I encountered some lift and a decent head wind on final, but nothing too extreme. Overall, I’m glad I had a chance to fly and enjoyed just over an hour long flight.
Greg Sessa
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Re: Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
At Woodstock and at most, if not all, mountain flying sites positioned down wind of the Appalachain ridges, strong post-frontal NW winds favor/enhance wave conditions in our flying environment. Once formed, their oscillation or changing positions strongly influence what we experience at launch, in the air above the ridge or during landing approaches. What may appear as a strong/intense series of thermal cycles at launch punctuated with smooth straight-in conditions could also be the result of “the wave” readjusting its position relative to launch. One way of differentiating between changes in wave positioning and thermal cycles is by determining if the “Freight Train” conditions are symmetrical. In other words, during the lulls at launch, can you detect the wind roaring elsewhere (up or down the ridge) or is the increase in the roar of the wind in the trees uniform. If the roar is asymmetrical, and randomly occurs both north or south of launch, its most likely due to thermals but if the “ramp ups” are uniform, its most likely wave. Whether the turbulence is triggered by wave or thermal cycles, DanTuck’s “takeaways from yesterday” should be carved into one of the rocks next to launch and made required reading for all about to fly. After leaving the slot, no matter what the conditions, patience is best. “Waiting out” turbulent conditions, or flying out of it and landing elsewhere are better than forcing a tricky landing in the primary LZ. So, as Bacil and Dan did yesterday, always select at least two LZs and keep your options open as long as possible. The “waiting it out part” for me on some of my flights, has redefined my understanding of what being lonely and scared is really like but in hindsight the waiting game is almost always the right move. Ward
Re: Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
Tom,
I think we were all aware of the potential for turbulence upon landing Sunday. The forecast was for it to back down considerably after 4P, and it started getting somewhat calmer on launch after 3P. The sky had dried up by then as well, so we didn't have any cloud shapes to analyze for indicators of turbulent air. And we saw no birds either. I made a few bad decisions Sunday. (You could say launching into extremely unstable air was one of them). But once airborne, the bad decisions were the determination to land at 4P and choosing to try to land in the main LZ in strong west flow. I should have looked for a field in the valley that was huge and devoid of obstacles way far upwind to the west. However, landing at 4P in such a field I feel was no guarantee that I would not have experienced major thermal induced turbulence. I am thinking that what I experienced over the main LZ was the edge of an extremely strong thermal at about 400' AGL. The field at the end of Artz Road is great for being more wide open, longer, and flatter, and less susceptible to rotor in a west cross than the main LZ (if you land on the Artz Road side of the field). I have landed there before in the past and have always kept it as an option. As I flew into the lift portion of the extremely strong thermal and gained over 100' I made the decision immediately to land in the Artz Road field. Over this field the turbulence was not as bad but I still got the cage rattled. The turbulence I am thinking was just the very unstable air, and not rotor. Once I descended into a layer of strong surface flow I made the decision to land on the wheels tandem style. I actually rolled a long distance and over a gopher hole that thank goodness was not as wide as the basetube so I didn't catch a wheel. I did not want to risk flaring and getting a wing lifted at the same time. Landing much later would have been a better choice, as the atmosphere may have settled down some (like Greg at 4:45P). I hope that my experience Sunday will educate less experienced pilots and benefit others. Bacil
I think we were all aware of the potential for turbulence upon landing Sunday. The forecast was for it to back down considerably after 4P, and it started getting somewhat calmer on launch after 3P. The sky had dried up by then as well, so we didn't have any cloud shapes to analyze for indicators of turbulent air. And we saw no birds either. I made a few bad decisions Sunday. (You could say launching into extremely unstable air was one of them). But once airborne, the bad decisions were the determination to land at 4P and choosing to try to land in the main LZ in strong west flow. I should have looked for a field in the valley that was huge and devoid of obstacles way far upwind to the west. However, landing at 4P in such a field I feel was no guarantee that I would not have experienced major thermal induced turbulence. I am thinking that what I experienced over the main LZ was the edge of an extremely strong thermal at about 400' AGL. The field at the end of Artz Road is great for being more wide open, longer, and flatter, and less susceptible to rotor in a west cross than the main LZ (if you land on the Artz Road side of the field). I have landed there before in the past and have always kept it as an option. As I flew into the lift portion of the extremely strong thermal and gained over 100' I made the decision immediately to land in the Artz Road field. Over this field the turbulence was not as bad but I still got the cage rattled. The turbulence I am thinking was just the very unstable air, and not rotor. Once I descended into a layer of strong surface flow I made the decision to land on the wheels tandem style. I actually rolled a long distance and over a gopher hole that thank goodness was not as wide as the basetube so I didn't catch a wheel. I did not want to risk flaring and getting a wing lifted at the same time. Landing much later would have been a better choice, as the atmosphere may have settled down some (like Greg at 4:45P). I hope that my experience Sunday will educate less experienced pilots and benefit others. Bacil
Re: Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
Another thing to think about, especially at Woodstock, is the sucker lull. There have bee too many times there where it has backed off an a strong day only to ramp up again about 20 minutes later. This usually happens in the 2-3:30pm time frame. If it's howling most of the day I generally like to wait at least 30 minutes, sometimes 40 if there is still plenty of daylight, after things back off before considering launching.
On a side note, I have flown several times on strong west cross days when people reported tons of turbulence near launch and horrific approaches and landings, including the day Joe Gregor broke his arms. The times when I was down near the gap to the South I had hardly any turbulence.
Matthew
On a side note, I have flown several times on strong west cross days when people reported tons of turbulence near launch and horrific approaches and landings, including the day Joe Gregor broke his arms. The times when I was down near the gap to the South I had hardly any turbulence.
Matthew
Re: Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Bacil. I am hopeful that everyone will learn from your experience. I'm glad that everyone landed ok.
Tom McGowan
Tom McGowan
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Re: Woodstock/Big Walker Sunday 01/20
[after playing out all possible outcomes for Global Thermonuclear War]
Joshua: Greetings, Professor Falken.
Stephen Falken: Hello, Joshua.
Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Spring flying season is only a couple months away. Now is an especially good time to practice those risk management skills.
JR
Joshua: Greetings, Professor Falken.
Stephen Falken: Hello, Joshua.
Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Spring flying season is only a couple months away. Now is an especially good time to practice those risk management skills.
JR