Carpets at Woodstock Launch

[sailin]

Hey all,
This weekend I was at Woodstock enjoying some hiking with Amy. As we were driving in from Rt 11, looking at the launch slot, we noticed a very reflective surface in the slot..couldn't tell what it was at first, but it seemed like there was a large mirror in the slot flashing/reflecting the sun. Once we drove up the mountain and started our hike along the trail we got to the launch slot and figured out exactly what it was. It seems as though the carpets have multiplied up there and are spread out covering much more ground then I have ever noticed before. It looks pretty bad....both from the road looking up at the slot and from the trail just behind launch.
I recommend that we roll these carpets up and move them out of view the best we can when we are done flying. Does this seem like a feasible thing to do?

Thanks,
Jon

[mingram]

Yes, the carpet makes launch more visible, but that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Maybe the increased visibility will attract more attention from the forestry service to let us move forward with our plan to smooth out the launch. If the carpets hinder HG launching, then by all means move the runway pieces out of the way. Rolling up all of it every time would be a nasty, difficult job and doesn't seem feasible. Carpets were put in place to make PG launching easier with less damage to the gliders until we can get a more permanent solution approved and in place.

We did the same thing at Daniels and we can now layout two gliders side by side. This helps increase our usage of these sites which is necessary to ensure people will care for and maintain them. We used carpet because it's free and easy to install. A better option is to spend time and money to lay down rocks or plant grass.

Matt

[jyoder111]

I understand the need for a non-abrasive surface to protect the PG wings, but I agree the carpets are an eye-sore. If they attract attention from the forest service, I don't think that would be the helpful kind of attention. Leaving carpets out in the open doesn't jive with our self-promotion as an impact-free sport.

It's a pain having to move them to launch a HG.

Jesse

[mingram]

I hear ya. I hope the carpets demonstrate our desire to maintain a safe launch to the forestry service. We've have multiple people with direct contacts that have attempted to move the process along, but they have other priorities. Until plans are approved or until we're told to remove them I think we have to do what we can to maintain safety.

As a compromise the PGs could move the carpet off the runway at Woodstock after we leave. It doesn't seem like an issue at Daniels because the slope is smooth and because the launch is privately owned.

This is a good discussion for our meeting on Friday.

Matt

[Pete Schumann]

I don't usually comment on this kind of stuff. I feel strongly enough on this however to write.

The carpets are an eyesore visable from a long way off. They are making the area look like a trash dump.
The PG folks should take the responsibility to roll them up at the end of the day at any site where they are being used.

We all have the responsibility to keep these sites safe to the extent possible and keep them maintained to be as natural as possible.

I'm not sure Roger Ritenour the contact for the owners Dave Witherspoon & the Flying Pigs Land Trust would approve of leaving carpets on the slot at Daniels.

Thanks for your consideration,

Pete

[brianvh]

I'm no longer a member of this community, but I have a comment and a question:

• Can't take 2 people more than 10 minutes to roll them up each day, seems like a no-brainer to me. The major difficulty is the effort to get back to launch if a ride has been hitched to the top.
• Why would they have to be moved out of the way for HG launch? Are they making soft spots to run over?

If they can be rolled out in a way that HG can run over them safely, it seems like pretty minimal effort to unroll and re-roll them once each day until a better solution is put in place. I think it would be worth working out the dual use method - may only take a couple bags of gravel to fill in depressions.

[Dan T]

A few months back the representative at the USFS in Edinburg brought the subject of carpets up to me while I was discussing improving the launch site. At that time there were just a few of them providing a modest improvement in the launch areas for PG pilots. When I explained that they were put there to protect the "lines" of the PGs and therefore increase the safety of the site for them, the USFS representative appeared to be satisfied. His response was along the lines of "we just wanted to know why they were there."

The recent additions are clearly more visible and admittedly more of an eyesore. They are also providing significantly more protection to the PG wings and lines.

The gray carpets were selected because it was thought that gray would blend in best with the background. In hind sight it appears that a darker color, such as brown or green, might be a better answer. It may be possible to replace it with darker colors in the near future.

An ideal answer is to get the go-ahead to make the improvements that we have previously proposed. I am hopeful that the people who are working that issue on our behalf will be successful by the time I return to Northern Virginia in mid-October.


Dan

[Ward Odenwald]

“They are also providing significantly more protection to the PG wings and lines.”

Well maybe Dan, but what the carpet is not protecting are the HG pilots and their wire crews that unknowingly walk or run on them. Putting down a different colored carpet is not the solution. On more than one occasion while positioning my glider for takeoff I’ve stepped on the carpet only to realize that it was covering only the air above a crevice between two rocks. The sensation is similar to stepping off a curb that you didn’t know was there. These are the soft spots that Brian was referring to and I’m not the only one that has experienced this. The carpets are not flexible enough to conform to the rocky surface that they hide but will certainly cave when you step on them while carrying your glider over them or even helping wire someone off! Could be wrong, but any added danger to our launch environment, especially insecure footing is somehow not a good thing. As for having the PGers removing the carpet after a day of flying – noble thought but - - I'm not going to lecture. To error on the safe side, before any HG launch the carpet should be pulled away from the launch area.

Ward

[Matthew]

Obviously there are some rather simple solutions to this problem. We will discuss them at the meeting on Friday.

Matthew

[mercury]

Hello Matt young here hang pilot. I personally don't like the look and added risk at launch of the carpets. I would suggest cloth painting tarps they are lightweight large and black I have some I can donate for my pg pilot friends if you like. They would conform to the ground better and would be way easier to roll up and would look a lot better and a lot mode ez to roll up.Like folding blankets. A better temporary solution

[XCanytime]

I took my sister and brother-in-law for a tour of the Shenandoah Valley this afternoon. We stopped at Front Royal Airport and they got to witness a sailplane towed up behind a Piper Pawnee. I got to talk with Reggie Cassignol, the airport manager, and they are having an airshow on Saturday September 8th. He invited me and whomever else wants to to do a static display at the airshow. We then drove to the Woodstock launch and I was appalled at the sight at the top of the slot. I wasn't going to comment until I saw it for myself. You may dress it up any way you want, but to me it is plain disrespect for other people's property. And some of the carpet there I suspect is carpet that I specifically transported to the Pulpit for use in improving traction on the gravel pad around 2 years ago. We at least own that property. Hell even my sister and brother-in-law made comments about how the slot looked like a trash dump that we were used to seeing back in the remote woods of West Virginia where we grew up. What do you think that casual hikers along the trail think when they see the eyesore that has become the top of the slot? Bacil

[mingram]

I don't think there's any carpet on the runway, but if there is PGs will roll-up it up to ensure there's no issue launching either HG or PG.

Matt Young - yes, we'd like to try the cloth painting tarps. Can you bring them to Woodstock the next time you're there?

Hopefully as fire risks across the country start to subside the USFS will have more time to focus on our projects so we can make Woodstock safer and restore it's beauty. Jim McClave is our USFS coordinator while Dan T is out of the region. I'll follow-up with Dan/Jim regarding current USFS availability.

Matt

[theflyingdude]

Hey Bacil, all of our launches are in the backwoods of West Virginia and none of them look like trash dumps thank you very much (of course, our launches aren't carpeted, either!)

JR
Secretary/Treasurer, Mountaineer Hang Gliding Association

[mingram]

We cleared the runway at Woodstock.

[jyoder111]

Thanks for taking point on this, Matt!

Jesse

[Matthew]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for being such a great active and dues paying member of CHGPA! Not only are you an outstanding member of the club, you contribute additional time and energy to CHGPA for the safety of all of the dues paying members of CHGPA-- even benefiting the flyers who aren't members of the club.

Matthew