Hogback skyline hang gliders?

[AcTiOnJaCkSoN]

Hello everyone. My name is Dustin George. I am currently in the early stages learning to hang glide. I was wondering how many people here happen to or plan to hang glide off of skyline drives "Hogback" launch site. Completely random but I happen to be working on a farm and I was looking at the surrounding mountains and since hang gliding is always on my mind, I made a joke about jumping off the cliffs and landing on his fields. To my surprise he tells me that is Hogback launch site and hang gliders land on his property all the time. I was wondering If I might meet any of you this summer working the fields lol. I hope to earn my H3 in the near future which is what I think is required to launch there.

[markc]

Greetings Dustin, and welcome to the CHGPA forums!

Hogback is a really cool site. If I remember right it takes a NE wind direction.... And that probably cuts into the flying there, because we don't often get good soarable northeast days. Also, the nearest LZ is a pretty darn long glide from launch, and the launch itself is a bit tricky. So yes, it's definitely a Hang-3 site, and you'll want a high perf glider, or high-end intermediate glider, in order to fly there. Plus the waiver from Shenandoah National Park. At a guess, I think that you'll want to concentrate on 'friendlier' sites once you are rated for high flights... We've got quite a few in the area, with much less challenging LZs. Then work up to the Shenandoah sites as you gain experience.

How's the training going Dustin? Are you doing foot-launch training? Aerotow? Maybe both?

Regardless of which method you are using, let me assure you, all of the time, effort, sweat, and frustration that you put into your training WILL be worth it! There are few experiences in life that can compare with soaring flight... You have some really fantastic adventures ahead if you can stick with it until you achieve your Hang-2.

Cheers,

MarkC

[AcTiOnJaCkSoN]

Hey markc. Aw okay, it looks like an awesome place to fly. Have you flown there before? I was curious if its a popular place to fly or who here on the forums flys there. I would love to hang out and watch anyone planning on launching there, but it sounds like its got to be just the right conditions to fly there.
Training is going very slow. I'm learning at bluesky, since I'm working now and also going to school and relying on weather I rarely get a chance to fly right now. So far I have only been pulled by a scooter and I'm not yet at the point being pulled up to a 100 ft yet lol so I got a ways to go. But I am hoping this summer I will speed my progress.
thanks for the reply

[RichH]

The landing area used to be directly below launch until some folks from D.C. bought the property and excluded us from landing there...Then we had a landing field fairly far out from launch forget the name of the family but our landing rights as I recall were very tenuious...Things might have changed..I've seen some very good days there and it is a very cool place to fly since the Mtn I think is close to 4,000 ft..Skip Brown did a lot of work secure the site and getting landing rights ..He may remember the landing situations...I'm sure he'd be willing to give you any info he can...Rich Hiegel

[RichH]

Another great site that has been forgotten is High Top a NE site as well ..I know the launch has overgrown ..and not sure if the landing area would still be open but it did have a good dirt road to the top..

[AcTiOnJaCkSoN]

The landing area used to be directly below launch until some folks from D.C. bought the property and excluded us from landing there...Then we had a landing field fairly far out from launch forget the name of the family but our landing rights as I recall were very tenuious...Things might have changed..I've seen some very good days there and it is a very cool place to fly since the Mtn I think is close to 4,000 ft..Skip Brown did a lot of work secure the site and getting landing rights ..He may remember the landing situations...I'm sure he'd be willing to give you any info he can...Rich Hiegel

The farm I'm working on is owned and run by a family by the last name Wright do not know if that rings a bell. Before he knew I was hang glider wannabe he talked about the hang gliders with some annoyance in his voice landing on his property haha. I'm hoping I will be able to shed some positive light on hang gliders.. I can see both view points. He seemed mostly annoyed with Hang Gliders landing on his property with out any permission, I don't know if his property was one of the landing zones or occasionally hang gliders would land on his property if they come up short or for emergency's but he was talking like hes met a lot of them before. Aeems like a shame if no one launches from there much because of all the hassles surrounding where to land, its a beautiful place.

[RichH]

I fly mostly at Blue Sky myself since I live so close to it..The weather has been difficult so far this spring with very high winds or wet conditions..Hopefully that will change soo and you'll get some decent time in..Steve is an excellent trainer so take advantage of his abilities while you can..Hope to see you out there...Rich Hiegel

[mcgowantk]

I have flown hogback a few times. We had a field not too far out, but one day I was there, a neighbor drove up and said that the landowner doesn't want us to land there for liability problems. I am not sure whether that was the real reason or not. I do recall a story before my time about landing there and spooking some cattle. After that, we only landed there when the cattle were in another field.

The site was not flown much due to the hike in and rough launch. I think I flew there last in 2002 or 2003. However, it is an impressive site. If there is any possibility of opening an LZ, that would be great news. Let us know if the landowner may be willing to allow us to land there, with the appropriate protocals of course. We can also insure the LZ if that would help.

Thanks for posting about this and hope to see you in the mountains (or at Blue Sky) soon.

Tom McGowan

PS I think it is really a NNW site. On the NE days that I went there, it was typically blowing over the back. We then headed over to Edith's Gap!

[AcTiOnJaCkSoN]

I fly mostly at Blue Sky myself since I live so close to it..The weather has been difficult so far this spring with very high winds or wet conditions..Hopefully that will change soo and you'll get some decent time in..Steve is an excellent trainer so take advantage of his abilities while you can..Hope to see you out there...Rich Hiegel

Sweet, I plan on spending all my summer when I'm not working at blue sky. I would love to be able to have my H2 at least by the end of summer hopefully. I'm sure I will see you there! Steve has been great I couldn't be happier learning at bluesky looking forward to meeting other hang gliders or anyone with same interest in this sport. None of my friends or family are interested in getting into hang gliding

I have flown hogback a few times. We had a field not too far out, but one day I was there, a neighbor drove up and said that the landowner doesn't want us to land there for liability problems. I am not sure whether that was the real reason or not. I do recall a story before my time about landing there and spooking some cattle. After that, we only landed there when the cattle were in another field.

The site was not flown much due to the hike in and rough launch. I think I flew there last in 2002 or 2003. However, it is an impressive site. If there is any possibility of opening an LZ, that would be great news. Let us know if the landowner may be willing to allow us to land there, with the appropriate protocals of course. We can also insure the LZ if that would help.

Thanks for posting about this and hope to see you in the mountains (or at Blue Sky) soon.

Tom McGowan

PS I think it is really a NNW site. On the NE days that I went there, it was typically blowing over the back. We then headed over to Edith's Gap!

lol thats definitely him.. he told me the same thing. He is worried about the liability issues and mentioned a time when a bunch of his cattle were spooked and stampeded away lol thats too funny. I would be curious to look into the legality of him really being reliable for somebody getting hurt. I will definitely talk with him about it. How would you insure a LZ? I'm just curious, is it done by a club or is USHPA involved in that type of stuff?

[uplandann]

For what it's worth; I think the VA Recreational Land Use Statute protects land owners as long as they don't charge a fee. I'm not sure how it changes with a fee, but without one, the statute protects land owners from liability, and holds land users responsible for damages to the owners property (cows, horses, crops, etc) durring said activity. I'm not sure if there is a legal form (that would be signed by both parties) or if it's a verbal agreement. Having something in writting though, is probably wise, even if it is handwritten agreement signed by both parties.

Ann

[Flying Lobster]

I was there that cattle day--although when I landed the cattle where not there. One had run into a fence and broke a leg, according to the owner. Me, Kinsley and some of the other pilots had to pony up $200 or 250 each, as I recall. I think we eventually started landing in an lz waaaaaaay out there.

I think the PG's have flown High top in recent years. I'll never forget the time Nelson Lewis took me there for the first time--Got to over 9000 msl--the highest I've been in the east. We then flew south over some amazing terrain for some 30 miles or so. Really flat slope launch not for the faint of heart!

marc

[mcelrah]

Having kicked the tree tops a couple times on PG at High Top and had to put into that hole of an LZ, I've decided not to fly it anymore... - Hugh

[RichH]

Actually I think it has alot of potential..you would have to cut a considerable slot wide and long..it does drop off at the end of the original slot..and there are good fields for landings we just need to get permission...

[AcTiOnJaCkSoN]

For what it's worth; I think the VA Recreational Land Use Statute protects land owners as long as they don't charge a fee. I'm not sure how it changes with a fee, but without one, the statute protects land owners from liability, and holds land users responsible for damages to the owners property (cows, horses, crops, etc) durring said activity. I'm not sure if there is a legal form (that would be signed by both parties) or if it's a verbal agreement. Having something in writting though, is probably wise, even if it is handwritten agreement signed by both parties.

Ann

Aw Ok, I thought VA had some sort of law like that protecting land owners, I heard something similar to that before but didn't know if it was accurate. Ya you are right, something in writing would probably put the land owner at ease.

I was there that cattle day--although when I landed the cattle where not there. One had run into a fence and broke a leg, according to the owner. Me, Kinsley and some of the other pilots had to pony up $200 or 250 each, as I recall. I think we eventually started landing in an lz waaaaaaay out there.

I think the PG's have flown High top in recent years. I'll never forget the time Nelson Lewis took me there for the first time--Got to over 9000 msl--the highest I've been in the east. We then flew south over some amazing terrain for some 30 miles or so. Really flat slope launch not for the faint of heart!

marc

O dang.
Wow thats pretty awesome, I want to do that!

Actually I think it has alot of potential..you would have to cut a considerable slot wide and long..it does drop off at the end of the original slot..and there are good fields for landings we just need to get permission...

I'm going to see what I could do to get this guy to be cool with hg and pg pilots landing on his property. He owns A LOT of land around Dickeys Ridge and Hog Back. I can literally see the launch sites from his field.. so hopefully something can be done.

[Pete Schumann]

Gary S. and maybe that Cali Dude (soon to be back ) Steve K and I flew there not too long ago and landed in a field Gary secured. It was far out and somewhat tight by a pond.

Finkster call me, I don't have your number.

Pete

[Flying Lobster]

423 266 1300

[pink_albatross]

Having kicked the tree tops a couple times on PG at High Top and had to put into that hole of an LZ, I've decided not to fly it anymore... - Hugh

High Top? Hogback? Or Flat top?

[RichH]

Im fairly sure he was referring to High Top..It had a very shallow slope but it drops off at the end..Last time I was there it had grown in with small trees..but would be a great light wind/thermal site..Its an incredible place to soar the views from there are something..and it gives you a significant height exposure..

[mcelrah]

Duh..Flat Top. I think. The one down beyond Daniel's. - Hugh

[pink_albatross]

Where's High Top?

[mcelrah]

High Point is one of the Cumberland sites. Dunno about High Top. Sorry for the confusion. - Hugh

[RichH]

High Top is down by Daniels and is on the main ridge..There is an old dirt road to the top..In the 70's it was the preferred first Mtn launch ( its where I had my first MTn launch) there is an old flat bed that was used for the ramp ..I went back in the late 90's and the slot which was huge in those days had grown in with bushes and small trees.. It was a great site..faces NE and is very high above the valley floor..great light wind site..Getting an approved landing field was what did it in...

[mcelrah]

On Ann's (and Matthew's off-line) point about the Rec Use Statute and not needing insurance: I have been made to understand that the statute, which exists in many/several states, is good, but it does not protect against *getting sued* (just makes it harder for the plaintiff to win). Getting sued is a sufficient pain in the ass - gotta hire an attorney $$$ - that having the insurance, wherein the insurance company defends you, may be a good deal. Something to think about, discuss at the meeting... - Hugh
P.S. Haven't heard from Nelson...

[Pete Schumann]

Last time (late 90's) a few of us (Mitch Shipley, Marc Fink, AKA The Finkster and I) went to fly High Top (near Daniels) the flat bed trailors wood top was pretty well rotted out. The launch was getting overgrown and conditions were pretty light.

Mitch ran off the flat bed trailor dodging the rotted/holed sections, dropped off the end of the trailor, scraped the overgrowth and managed to just clear the slot.
Marc and I decided not to fly and went to pick up Mitch who got a sled

Pete

[Danny Brotto]

I flew High Top once in 1980. Made it to the top (barely) in Cliff Carlton's Pinto loaded with 4 gliders and pilots crammed in. There was the flat bed launch ramp but no chute there at the time. Had it gotten that overgrown in 20 years?

Danny Brotto