Obligatory Beginner Question - HG vs PG

[mingram]

Hey John! I remember you from the Pulpit Fly-In. I'm glad to see you're moving forward with training! Very exciting! Feel free to call/email me if you need any advice or tips on Santa Barbara. Keep us posted on your progress and we'll get you on the PG email group when you get back.

Matt Ingram

[CraginS]

Paul,
You asked about "who do we like as instructors?" I can only address HG, but I will tell you that I have taken lessons from all 4 local schools, and have nothing but high praise for all. I did most of my basic training up to H2 with John Middleton, but also took foot launch lessons from RIch Hays at MD school, truck and scooter lessons with Blue Sky, and aerotow lessons over in MD at Highland. With two foot launch and two tow operations in the area, you have a lot of choices. I suggest you catch the instructors on the phone, talk about what you want to do, and go with the one that feels right for you. You will want to stick with a primary instructor, but don't feel badly about trying a lesson with one of the others, too. Just keep any and all instructors up on your plans.

Cragin

[pgcorky]

I think you can tell the kind of folks you are dealing with from the open and caring quality of the responses to your post. Awesome.

I could not have asked for a more sincerely helpful (and fun) group. I'm sure some of this can be tiresome - trying to explain to somebody that knows nothing, but nobody's making me feel stoopid! Good luck in Santa Barbara, John. Come home with the PG2!

[pink_albatross]

Oh, one more thing - for folks who are pressed for time and cannot come out every weekend it's flyable, I believe that PG is a better option than HG.

After a long hiatus, you usually need to take your HG back to the training hill to get your muscles to remember how to launch and especially land safely.
Due to the lower take off and landing speeds of a PG, a muffed landing is usually not a big deal. Therefore after a hiatus you can take your PG right back up to the top of a mountain and fly high right away, AS LONG as you fly in easy air and don't jump right back into gnarly big air.

I hear that in Europe a lot of folks treat PG like skiing - they only fly on vacation.

-- ellis

[theflyingdude]

Oh, one more thing - for folks who are pressed for time and cannot come out every weekend it's flyable, I believe that PG is a better option than HG.

After a long hiatus, you usually need to take your HG back to the training hill to get your muscles to remember how to launch and especially land safely.
Due to the lower take off and landing speeds of a PG, a muffed landing is usually not a big deal. Therefore after a hiatus you can take your PG right back up to the top of a mountain and fly high right away, AS LONG as you fly in easy air and don't jump right back into gnarly big air.

I hear that in Europe a lot of folks treat PG like skiing - they only fly on vacation.

-- ellis

I think that depends upon the specific model of wing you fly. If you're flying a Falcon, it's probably easier to come back after a long hiatus than if you're flying a comp PG wing that wants to collapse if you look at it the wrong way. That also would depend upon what your level of experience was when you began your hiatus. If you've been flying forever, you can probably take a hiatus and then come back without a detour to the training hill, especially if you're not on a blade wing.

Personally, I think there are more opportunities to fly HG in our area as they have a greater range of conditions in which they can operate, but as I don't (and won't) fly PG's, my opinion is not completely objective.

JR

[pgcorky]

I haven't gotten this many replies since I asked "what type of oil is best in my motorcycle" on some other forum. But this is a way better discussion!

[deveil]

for hg and pg pilots the world consists of three things:
1) flying
2) talking about flying
3) everything else

[deveil]

it's the corollary of "With respect to giving up other fun activities, you don't need to worry. Nothing else will seem fun after flying!."

[brianvh]

A couple of young women in Philadelphia are trying to take lessons with Rich Hays. After having to miss this weekend due to Rich's planned recovery period from the MHGA meeting, I told the girls to be ready for next weekend.

They responded with a confused "we didn't know we had anything planned for next weekend!"

That cued the inevitable lecture on the HG lifestyle.

You ALWAYS have flying planned for next weekend. Always. At least until you move to New York (sigh).

[cthornberger]

Toooo true
-Chris Hornberger (H-2)

[dbodner]

I've seen those motorcycle oil discussions. They reappear every once in a while in different places and times, but they always play out the same. Just like the HG vs PG discussions.

I say learn from what people are saying here, discover whatever other facts you can, and make a decision. There is no one correct decision. There may be one correct decision for you, and you've got a 50% chance of hitting it. I'm not sure dwelling on it much further will increase that chance. Yeah, you may pick wrong, but don't sweat it. It's all good.

When there was only HG, you made that decision easily and moved on. Now that there's HG and PG, you sweat it. Choices only serve to make us unhappy. Get past that choice, and you can be happy again.

[mcelrah]

Buy the most expensive motorcycle racing oil. - Hugh

[Danny Brotto]

I venture to say that if it were only about mountain/training hill accessibility then the HG vs. PG discussion would be valid. If you throw aerotowing at Highland (and to some extent Bluesky) into the mix, then I'd say the odds for learning, and getting airtime on a more consistent basis in the local area is biased towards hang gliding (as they really don't have PG operation in either place.)

Danny Brotto

[Dan T]

You've gotten great advice on both sides of the topic. One piece that is almost overlooked is the dearth of PG instructors in this area. There are currently a grand total of zero PG instructors in the area with a potential for one on the way. If you choose PG, I encourage you to either ma ke arrangements to get trained up to the P2 level at one of the western US schools or contact our potential instructor and get confirmation that he will commit to teaching you.

Any instructor in either sport should be able to provide equipment while you progress towards your H2 or P2 rating. When you get close to one of those ratings you will want your own equipment and will know that you will stay in the sport.

We have one foot launch site, known as High Rock, that is exclusively HG. It is also the site closest to you. It's near Camp David west of Thurmont Md. The rest of the commonly flown foot launch sites can be flown by either wing. Aerotowing is exclusively a HG sport. It is a great alternative to foot launching during the dog days of summer when the winds are still and foot launching is often non-productive.

Paragliders are easier and quicker to set up and pack up which often means that you can fly more than one or two times a day if you choose. Comparing the two is a bit like comparing snow boarding and skiing in virgin fluffy powder to.... sitting at home watching the golf channel. It's a no brainer, whichever you pick you are going to love it!

Dan

[pch]

Let me introduce myself. I moved to Charles Town, WV in June of 2010 from San Diego, CA. I've been a Tandem Instructor for 9 years, mostly in CA, WY, & Germany. I am attending a Basic Instructor Clinic in Santa Barbara,CA next weekend 3/12 - 3/14. I was nominated by Hugh McElrath, our Regional Director, PG Tandem Administrator for Region 9.I also have a couple day jobs, but call me & we can talk.

Peter Humes
P-4 / T-3
304-596-7442

[Flying Lobster]

Hey Peter--I have a complete pg tandem outfit--Airwave Scenic, Advance tandem harnesses, Quantum tandem reserve, steel biners etc--all in like-new condition (flown only a few times)--I'm asking 2K for the whole shebang--I spent well over 4K at dealer cost for everything. If you have a tandem trainee this could be a great deal.

marc

[uplandann]

So who is the PG instructor on the way?

Steve Wendt at Blue Sky Hang Gliding http://www.blueskyhg.com/ offers introductory paragliding, where he will tow you up with the scooter tow method. The main challenge is wind because this time of year it is too windy for towing even a Falcon (beginner HG) much less PG. He does his scooter tows in the morning. Light to no-wind with general southerly direction are the best forecasts to look for in the Richmond area (Manquin) for learning at Blue Sky. I think late spring- summer mornings may work better. But if you are persistant you may be able to squeeze in some lessons on those acceptable-condition days (light to no-wind /any direction).

It may not be P2 instruction, but at least you could get a taste. Hey, maybe you could try both on the same day, for fun!
Personally I'm partial to H-G 'cause somehow it's just in my blood and PG has too many "strings attached" I also think HG is sort of "boot camp" for PG. And will ultimately make you a better pilot (I know I'll get slammed for saying that); biwingwal as they say, but that's just my opinion.
I too believe that which ever you decide you'll be hooked.

Ann
(H-2)

[mcelrah]

Peter has been approved as PG tandem administrator by the tandem committee. I am even more excited that he is becoming a basic instructor , if only so Sallie can get her P2.
Noah Merritt is also interested in becoming a PG instructor. And we have two new volunteers to be HG observers. Thanks to each for stepping up to the challenge!
-Hugh

[uplandann]

oh, oops.

[pch]

Thanks Marc, I'll keep that in mind. I appreciate the offer, sounds like a good deal, I'll call you first.