Edith's Gap SE site, new big LZ

[kcarra]

Ellis made a good point the other day that it would be great if we could do the clearing before the leaves and the undergrowth came in.

[deveil]

yup

[pch]

I have a chain saw and can borrow another one. I also have experience felling trees up to 24" in diameter.
Peter Humes
304-fiveninesix-7277

[lbunner]

Thanks Danny, I checked out that area two years ago but couldn't quite locate the launch. The ridge looks awesome and a flight over the back would be cool. I think Pete (Adams?) was checking this out as well but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

[Dan T]

I flew the site one time about 10 years ago. It was immediately after I made hang III. I was flying a Mark IV and was counting individual leaves in the tree tops for 90% of the flight until I managed to reach the smallest LZ I've ever landed it. I had passed the primary without seeing it. At the time you couldn't see it from launch. A couple years later several pilots from the club flew it and landed out front a little to the left of launch. One of the club members, Joe Gregor I think, wrote it up and got it published in the USHGA magazine.

I took the GPS coordinates from my automobile GPS. It displays coordinates in degrees, minutes and fractions of a minute. I noticed that Google Earth converted to degrees and fractions. You will need to make sure you have the units correct in order to get the right locations. I haven't done the math or even checked the change in elevation but I did look at the launch from the LZ. It did not look to be more than about a 5 to 1 glide to me, but I could be wrong.

It sounds like there is enough interest to justify clearing the slot. Since one person said he has tree falling experience I'd recommend widening the original slot by 50% or so if we can.

I have offered to approach the USFS to obtain their permission to clear the slot and potentially widen it. This would be a cold call for me as I have neither and contacts there nor any prior experience dealing the the USFS in the Mid-Atlantic. If any of you feel that you might have a better chance of success either through your associates or experience I would gladly hand this piece of the job off to you.

One could argue that we shouldn't have to ask permission since we once had a launch site there already. If anyone chooses to make this argument, I'll wait until the club officers come to a decision on how to proceed before continuing.

Dan T

[uplandann]

I used the ruler tool on Google Earth to measure from the launch to the LZ and came up with about 5500 ft. Then divided it by 930ft AGL (Launch at 1840ft ASL to the LZ at 910 ft ASL). The ruler measures the distance between two points on the ground; don't know if this is "as the crow (or Sport 2) flies" or along the ground. If it's along the ground (as it looks like it is when I went back to look) then it won't be accurate for measuring glide.
So, cool! Not as far as I thought.
Although, I have to say, the title for the thread is a bit misleading... Was hoping for a new H-2 site.
I'll still help out if you need extra hands.

Ann

[Pete Schumann]

It would be great to re-open and fly Edith's again. My last flight there was September 1997 with Mark C. We both soared and I got flushed later in the day. I waited too long to head out while trying to get back up and did a crash landing in a back yard when I knew I wouldn't make the main LZ. I managed to only bend a down tube, I was lucky. A few weeks before I watched Glen Tishner crash land in a tree in that same yard and helped him get out. I was able to clear that same tree but only by a few feet.

Anyway as Marc Fink said a bunch of us Mitch Shipley, MarK C., Tom M. included re-opened it in the 90's after it had over grown. We had some awesome flight s there. But as Tom and others noted it was get up or go out to land. The old site guide protocol was to contact guys from the Central VA Club.

House thermal was right of launch above a cabin/house and rocky area. As I remember we also landed to the right of launch in a nice field but that field had a power line that crossed it and you needed to be sure you knew where it was. The main LZ was accross the river and was an up hill field next to a store of sorts.

It's an awesome place to fly but it' seems like it's not so often that we get good SE flying days.

Pete

[deveil]

for what it's worth, and 'don't know that/how it would be, but i might have a portable generator in the near/not so far future.
(also the blade trimmer, chain saw, chain sharpening skills, tow straps and new boots. 'think i'm all out of dynamite but we might check with markC)

g

[deveil]

oh yeah, don't know that the thrashing and crashing will help 'sell' the site, but it sure was amusing to read!

[markc]

If at all possible, I'd like to urge for lots of lead-time for any work party that's put together to clear out the Edith's launch. I'm traveling this weekend and on the first weekend of March, but would _very_ much like to participate. The sooner that a date is known, and advertised, the better I'll be able to plan for it... And I'm sure that's true of many other pilots.

As I recall, the slope at the very top of the slot wasn't the best: It needed to be leveled out and graded in a way that would make for a more consistent slope. So we might want to consider some crush-and-run fill to improve the launch?

BTW: Phrases like "Restore the launch site to its original boundaries", and "Haul out and dispose of trash that has been dumped at the site", and "Provide a dramatic viewpoint for hikers along the XxxYyy trail" can all make points with the powers that be. Our interest in flying translates into free labor for the forest service, and into benefits for other forest users. That's a win-win if presented in the right light.

The launch slot had definitely been used to dump refuse, so our plans for site cleanup will have to take that into account; we'll probably be hauling more than just trees and scrub.

MarkC

[deveil]

speaking of back yards, and just for grins. . . i once witnessed someone being taken out by a swingset. it was one of those cases where you were just soo very relieved that they were okay - so you could laugh your ass off because otherwise you'd bust a gut!

ahhh the good ole days.

[Dan T]

Since nobody has objected to contacting the USFS, I'm going to attempt to contact them as soon as I can, perhaps as early as tomorrow. My preference is to hold the conversation in person if possible, so I might just call for an appointment and then drive to the District Office. I'm not sure which one it is but I'm pretty sure I can figure it out.

I'll make sure I mention the positive aspects of permitting us to clean up the site as was discussed earlier in this thread. Once we get the green light to proceed I believe that we shouldn't be overly hasty in establishing a work crew. Let's take the time to plan and do this right and get as much participation as we can effectively use. However let's not take so much time that we lose the window.

The experienced tree fallers and others who are skilled with a chain saw will be especially helpful. The slope is steep and heavily overgrown. Footing is liable to be slippery in spots. I counted 1/2 dozen tires that had been rolled down the hill and stopped before they could roll out of sight. I don't think there is much more junk down there but there could be.

I'll post the results of my conversation with the USFS as soon as I can.

Dan

[dbodner]

Would it be crazy for us to ask if the Forest Service could position a dumpster for the cleanup? Or should we offer to pay for one? Or should we simply leave the big stuff (tires) there.

[Dan T]

I'm going to meet with the USFS today. I plan to tell them that we will clean up everything that we can including the tires and anything else that we can move. One of the clean up volunteers has a big pickup truck and has offered to use it to move stuff to the nearest dump if necessary.

I think giving the USFS an opportunity to assist is a great idea. I can certainly ask about a dumpster.

Many years ago I worked briefly for the USFS in Calif. A request of our general nature would be approved through the use of a "Special Use Permit." It's a contract of sort between the applicant and the USFS. I expect that this will be their likely response. We will be required to write what we will and won't do. The size of the clearing will probably be included. The Special Use Permit will probably need to be signed by one or two of our club officers.

When I last flew Edith's Gap it was a very narrow slot. Widening it means cutting down a few mature trees. Does anybody know how wide Woodstock is at it's narrowest point?

Dan

[Dan T]

The launch coordinates are N38 degrees 43.518 minutes by W 78 degrees 30.574 minutes.

I noticed I had a typo in my earlier post and missed the fractions of a minute on the longitude. Sorry about that.

Dan

[deveil]

how about not only leaving in place the tires that are already there, but get bunches more and pile them all over the slot! hell, they've been doing that at race tracks for decades to great effect! minimize the damage of a bad launch. 'might even want to create a new annual award - "best launch on first bounce"!

garyDemento

[deveil]

warning, the follow statements are actualy not facetious:
i remember one time there was a debate about slot clearing. was it was better to clear the brush that is cut, so as to make for better access for future brush cutting. Or was it better to leave the cut brush in place to help cushion an impact as well as provide protection from the remnant "punji stick" stubs. maybe this was long ago resolved. in either case, and probably stating the obvious, it's best to cut everything as close to the ground as possible.

[deveil]

maybe leave the low brush in place and plant kudzu for a really soft landing. or low growing junipers?
idealistic or facetious - not sure myself.

gary

[deveil]

question resolved(?): there would be regrowth within two years as to make removing the brush the probable better tact.

gary

next problem: what ever shall i have for lunch? i'll keep you posted.