Anti-Paraglider Rant and Videos on Oz Report Forum

[John Dullahan]

"Rickmas" posted a report (and an anti-paragliding rant) about a fatality of one of Kari Kastle's paragliding clinic students in the Owens Valley. (This starts an ongoing flame war on the OZ report forum that continues for at least six pages.) He provides an unsettling link to a series of videos, near the bottom of his first paragraph, which show a series of dramatic paraglider wing collapses, usually in front of launch. The text below the videos briefly describes paragliding fatalities. Both the videos and accident reports provide somber viewing/reading.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17743 (Link to Rickmas post)

http://www.cometclones.com/mythology.htm (Link to Rickmas videos and paragliding accident reports.)

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... c&start=50 (A nugget among the flames: "Dayhead" posts a few cogent and astute observations devoid of rancor or invective.)

John D.

[jimrooney]

John... why are you bringing Rickmas's filth in here?
He's one of the most opinionated blowhards I've every heard. He doesn't top Tad, but he's up there. His opinions are based on hatred and not fact... even the basic statistics out there contradict him.

In short... he just hates PG and bashes it any chance he gets.
I don't think we need that here.
The MD clubs seem to have a very good handle on what PG is and isn't.
Jim

[John Dullahan]

Jim,

I understand you object to Rickma’s method of presentation, though labeling it “filth” is a stretch and not conductive to rational discussion.

Is there a reason for your omitting the central issue: that of wing collapses, which has much greater relevance to paraglider pilots than Rickma’s delivery method?

During a discussion at Ridgely yesterday, several biwingual pilots who had not seen Rickma’s rant or the associated videos and accompanying text asked that I post it to the CHGA forum.

I complied with their collective request, and in doing so I labeled Rickma’s post “an anti-paragliding rant.” Anyone with a semi-functioning perception of reality would discern that I did not endorse either his position or delivery method.

As I am not a paraglider pilot and largely unqualified to judge the merits of Rickma’s post, I have no intention of either adopting a position on the issue or joining the ongoing internecine flame war.

John

[chgpa]

Providing links to an OZ report flame-fest does not recapitulate that flame-fest here.

So if someone wants to go and see what all the fuss is about... Fine, go check it out.
I think that most adults here can recognize rants/PG-bashing for what they are.

We've all had to live through rants in our own forums and listservs over the years.
If anyone plans to start a thread about the merits of flying with/without full-face
helmets, with/without wheels, with/without plumbing in their airfoil, yada-yada-yada....

Well, let's just say that the example provided by the OZ report won't cut it here.
Discussion will be civil. Posts will be made with the recognition that reasonable
men and women can disagree with each other, without being idiots/morons/whatever.

MarkC

[jimrooney]

Too right Mark.
That's why I like it here.

Sorry about the "filth" bit.
I do however consider myself qualified to give an opinion on Rickmas's "commentary". He has a blind hatred of PG and does not generate meaningful discussion. In computer terms we call his style "FUD", Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

I'm happy to discuss any and all aspects of PG flight... and from a well informed perspective, unlike Rickmass.

Jim

[pink_albatross]

What's the purpose of a HG vs. PG safety discussion?

To ban one or the other as being too dangerous and then expecting those whose activity has been banned to cross over to the remaining one?
Or to merely convince one or the other to join the "safer" side?
Or is it to make oneself feel safer by pointing out how unsafe the other very closely related activity is? (If s/he wants to be safe, s/he is advised to spend his/her free time on the couch, but not to snack too much or drink too much, as that's dangerous to one's health in the long term. Instead s/he should get up every so often and do some P90X. Also s/he should avoid bicycles and swimming in lakes/ocean)

I think any of those motivations have a low chance of success and a high chance of making enemies.

-- ellis, who doesn't care which of the two sports her friends engage in, as long as they come out and fly

p.s. latecomers to a discussions like that very well might worry about their friends on the dark side and might be looking for information to calm their worries... PG pilots worried about HG pilots hitting trees and piling in on takeoff/landing, HG pilots worried about PG pilots having collapses and tumbling out of the sky.

My two cents on this for both sports: know thy wing, know thy skill, know thy weather and push the envelope gently.
(I'll be happy to engage in a more detailed discussion on the topic of PG collapses off line)

[Dan T]

I didn't read the rant and I'm not going to. I got enough of the sense of it from here already. I think the fatality statistics that get occassionally published in the magazine indicate that the two sports have a similar number of fatal accidents per active pilot per year, but that paraglider pilots fly significantly more hours. Therefore when measured on a per-hour basis the paragliders are safer. Measured on a per-flight or per-pilot basis we appear to be about equal.

We all know we are engaged in a dangerous sport. Yet I think most of us would agree that if we woke up this morning and were told by the angel of death that tomorrow would be our last day on this earth, we'd probably call in sick and go flying today.

Dan T
biwingal

[mcelrah]

Gotta wait until February for the annual CHGPA flame-fest. You forgot "employment of wuffos as wirecrew" in your list of topics.

A word on paraglider collapses: taking an SIV course goes a long way to reduce fear of the unknown. Actually inducing malfunctions (under professional supervision, with extra safety measures such as flying over water with a rescue boat standing by) and applying the appropriate corrections - really teaches you a lot about how your wing reacts - and that it is designed to self-correct many malfunctions. Doesn't mean that something couldn't occur that was unmanageable, but experience improves your chances of recognizing an irremediable malfunction earlier and throwing the reserve sooner. As we know, reserves aren't always a get outta jail free card either. Those of us who have flown in Bulgaria and thought of it as a reasonably benign site got a wake up call from LE's experience a couple of months ago. Having said all that, I've been flying PG for four years (admittedly with low hours) and haven't been scared - yet... I think the equipment keeps getting better, too.

- Hugh

[markc]

Gotta wait until February for the annual CHGPA flame-fest. You forgot "employment of wuffos as wirecrew" in your list of topics.

Thanks Hugh, I forgot all about that one.

MarkC

[pink_albatross]

LOL, sooo true:

Yet I think most of us would agree that if we woke up this morning and were told by the angel of death that tomorrow would be our last day on this earth, we'd probably call in sick and go flying today.

Dan T
biwingal[/quote]