Ad Hoc Pulpit Fly-In

[markc]

Venting??? There's no venting in my post on this subject. It's very straightforward.

Whoops, apologies Matthew, I should have provided more context. I was not referring to *this* topic when
I mentioned venting. The first thread I saw which indicated frustration/venting about the current state of
affairs for the Pulpit Fly-In was this one:

THE FINAL PULPIT FLY-IN

But if this had been indicative of the feelings of the membership overall.... Then one would think that more
than three pilots would have responded? After all, 250 users viewed the topic!

In that thread:

A quorum of the BOD is needed to decide the future of our local fly-ins

Fair enough. And I was actually at a subsequent club meeting where the idea of an "ad-hoc" Pulpit Fly-In
was formally proposed. I voiced some of my concerns then. I did not vote for it. I'm not a BOD member,
so I couldn't weigh in from that standpoint. Perhaps I should have been more eloquent and persuasive.
But even if I had been... If I remember right, the total attendence consisted of the BOD, plus, what,
maybe five other people? (Ellis, David C, me, Janni, Dave B?). Not exactly an opportunity to get lots of
viewpoints, unfortunately.

Long story short, the proposal passed. And fine, that's life.... Except for two things that I'd like to
point out:

• There was no dedicated forum topic and/or poll inviting comment from the membership as a
  whole. Something like this would have been very nice: "Hey, we are planning this new approach
  for the 2009 Pulpit Fly-In, what do you all think?"
• There hasn't been a pre-announced club meeting schedule since 2007

Given that achieving a good turnout for general meetings is difficult even in the BEST of circumstances,
I would think that the BOD would want to be very proactive in communicating issues such as changes
to an event with a 16-year history to the membership. Is that a lot to ask?

I'm sure that this all seems like sour grapes, why didn't I speak up more if I felt this way, etc. Those are
valid criticisms. I coulda/shoulda done more, rather than waiting until this late date to voice objections.

Richard Hays of MHGA requested to take the date of the Pulpit Fly-In for the High Rock Fly-In. The joint MHGA/CHGPA Board of Directors agreed. That left no fixed date for the Pulpit Fly-In.

These are really two separate topics: a) Change the date of the Pulpit Fly-In to accomodate the needs of
the High Rock event; b) Change the nature of the Pulpit Fly-In to the ad-hoc format.

I have no objection at all to (a). I do have concerns about (b). Hence my vote at that club meeting. And
hence my griping now.

I can think of lots of ways to make the Pulpit Fly-In more interesting. Here's one: Half of the proceeds
of registration go to the winning team, and all members of that team are provided with free club
membership for the following year. Here's another: CHGPA puts up a cash purse(s) for the winning team(s).
Forget trophies and medals, money talks! Come up with some sort of formula so that there can be a
winning team even if it's a sled-ride type of day. Another idea: Random assignment to a team among all
those who show up.

My bottom line concerns:

• People are busy, and an ad-hoc call for a "Fly-In" a couple days in advance will yield little more than
  a typical weekend turnout at whatever site is called. Nothing special, nothing above and beyond. BFD.
• We actually OWN the Pulpit launch site. We can camp there, party there, crash the biker-bar next
  door, support the local fire department, have a bonfire, go hiking, go swimming, stay at a B&B.
  Where else is all that possible?

I will now shut up and hope that this year's Pulpit Fly-In is hugely successful! And/or that this thread will
generate lots of creative ideas. I encourage people to start NEW topics for ideas that they might have,
rather than kicking this particular discussion to death.

Cheers,

MarkC

[mcelrah]

I am not in the business of discouraging good ideas, so please consider the format of the Pulpit fly-in to be an open topic for further discussion here and now - and at a viva-voce meeting of either the BoD-plus or the general membership - if such can be scheduled before the ad-hoc event heretofore "planned" actually occurs. I would like to hear from Bacil, since as the new Flight Director he has *something* to do with it.

And I'm not buying this "I'm not on the BoD" stuff anymore - POOF - I just made you a Director. Feel more important? Good! The truth is that the club is a "coalition of the willing" - those who will contribute time and energy to make stuff happen and it doesn't really matter whether you have a titled office or not (anyone want to be President?).

It's wonderful that we seem to be having a burst of energy in the community (forget "club") - the Dickey's brush-clearing was a hard-won victory thanks largely to Joe Schad's patient liaison with the park service. Janni's leadership on the Pulpit project. Ellis' initiative on Emma Jane's cats (sure. this was an animal-lovers' effort, but it can't hurt the flying). Kinsley taking care of Harry's headstone (he still needs to be paid back). New ideas and ferment among the new (and old/extended) board members. Let's keep it up!

- Hugh

[Flying Lobster]

The Pulpit Fly-ins I ran and attended were successes, as I recall.

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out statistically when the best time of year is. I'd do it over a three day weekend (holiday) and try to make it a semi-serious event. Talk to Kevin Carter about what the Treetopper team challenge is like--it's so wildly popular now it sells out almost the moment registration opens!

I recall that Mark C was always one of the main backer/promoters and workers of the Fly-in. It would be wise for everyone to pay attention to what he says.

marc

[Ashley Groves]

"Poof - I just made you a director"

Let's all be careful around Hugh, next time he may turn you into a newt.

[brianvh]

Mark C;

Your ideas about improving the pulpit fly-in by making better prizes are only applicable if it's nicely flyable. I don't think people are motivated by the prizes in any case.

Marc's idea of narrowing it down to a 3 week window might help out the ad-hoc problem a bit - people can be leery about scheduling other things for those dates.

I just like the idea of having a mountain XC weekend contest that is likely to work. Balance it with the fixed HR party. Folks usually don't camp out at the Pulpit on flyable weekends, so this would add incentive (personally I'd make the camp out mandatory, with team banners, head butting and grog fests, but that may be asking too much). There was nothing broken about the old way, but some variety is nice.

I don't know if an ad-hoc event will work, like you I hope it does and we have to wait and see. Worthwhile test.

[RedBaron]

We need to get a list of pilots who are willing to make the Fly-In work and who don't think responsibility is a matter of interpretation. You can put me on that list.

[mcelrah]

What Marc said was make it on a 3-day weekend - but I recall opinions that competing with Hyner was a losing proposition. - Hugh

[RichH]

Have there been Fly Ins where the weather didn't cooperate..sure, but I can remember some great times and great flights at Fly Ins..One of the better Fly Ins I attended actually was at the Pulpit a XC task was called and many pilots flew between 30-40 miles and one pilot flew over 60 miles that day..Not far by todays standards but I guess I would take the more positive approach and say you will miss out on alot of fun and community if it becomes too focused on just the flying..

[Flying Lobster]

Listen guys--all you need to do is choose a time and work to make it the best you can. Hang gliding always has uncertainty. Choose a time and stick with it. Make it something beyond "fly, drink beer, and cook wienies" and you'll get interest from pilots outside the region.

marc

[RedBaron]

I agree with Marc but would like to add that a 25% chance of flying is a bit low for my taste. I accept that the HR "Fly-In' will probably never be more than just a party with the possibility of flying, but there's no need to have two such events.

[Dan T]

I'd like to submit an absentee vote on the matter. I am opposed to switching the pulpit fly in to an ad hoc one. I think it is a terrible idea. The Pulpit fly in is an XC event that brings pilots out that we rarely see otherwise. If we are going to do an ad-hoc fly in, let's do it at High Rock, which doesn't have an XC component anyway.

Why don't we try an ad hoc fly in at High Rock at the middle of the summer? We could give away longest duration and highest altitude trophies, party in emma jane's field and maybe pull enough people together that we can help her out a little more too. Then we could decide if we want to continue with the scheduled one as well.

I am taking Maureen on a road trip in July. I won't be back until early August, but if you do it then I'll help out.

Dan T

[brianvh]

You've totally missed the point, Dan. BECAUSE the pulpit fly-in is an XC event, it makes sense to find the best weather for it. The High Rock fly-in benefits the carbaughs and doesn't have a contest component, so it less weather dependent.

[Matthew]

Ugh!!!!

Look. The decision has already been made for 2009. If it works, it works. if it doesn't, then someone can come up with an idea for 2010 and present it to the Joint BOD.

Matthew

[RedBaron]

Could we please have a poll of some kind here and ask the pilots what they want for the Fly-Ins?
Do pilots actually care about Fly-Ins? The number of participants in this thread suggest otherwise.
Cavanaugh, can you do that?

[Flying Lobster]

I agree with Marc but would like to add that a 25% chance of flying is a bit low for my taste..

True. If you stay home the probability of playing checkers or knitting a sweater can be almost 100% ! : )

marc

[Flying Lobster]

You've totally missed the point, Dan....it makes sense to find the best weather for it. ....

If that's true--then try naming one other xc event that uses this format.

marc

[brianvh]

The successful XC contests with a fixed date (treetoppers, ridgely eastern challenge, etc) use a full week so that at least a few days will be flyable. We don't have that option. Weekend events never bill themselves as XC contests if they have any sense.

We already have a fixed date event for the local and surrounding community: High Rock. It would be nice if our other major event had a different format, and the Pulpit is tailor made for XC if the weather can be convinced to cooperate. Just because nobody's thought of trying it before doesn't automatically make it wrong. It could be overlooked genius, but we won't know until it's tried. The decision's been made anyway, let's see what happens!

[Flying Lobster]

The successful XC contests with a fixed date (treetoppers, ridgely eastern challenge, etc) use a full week so that at least a few days will be flyable. We don't have that option. Weekend events never bill themselves as XC contests if they have any sense.

We already have a fixed date event for the local and surrounding community: High Rock. It would be nice if our other major event had a different format, and the Pulpit is tailor made for XC if the weather can be convinced to cooperate. Just because nobody's thought of trying it before doesn't automatically make it wrong. It could be overlooked genius, but we won't know until it's tried. The decision's been made anyway, let's see what happens!

Not overlooked genius--but counting on a lot of people--and worker bees--to be totally flexible. Good luck with that! : )

marc

[davidtheamazing1]

At the past few fly-ins I've attended the weather has been questionable. In our region, flying is a big deal... 2 hrs driving each way plus at least 1 hour on each end for setup/launch/breakdown/shuttle. That's six hours, so of course it's disappointing to get no flying or just a sled.

I know that I've ditched recent fly-ins because of questionable (calm wind or Non-H2) weather. It seemed that most of the people last year were not impressed by the weather, and the resulting attendance. While the fireworks were a highlight and the raffle was so much sweeter with fewer people, it seemed like we get more crowd on those made-for-pulpit (NW 10mph) days.

While I'm willing to try the rolling date idea this year, I honestly think that a fixed date CHGPA fly-in and non-fixed fly-in site would work better... but focusing on the site has some pluses and we'll see how it is. Remember the club is slowly contracting, with more people retiring than starting out, so we are going to have to streamline and simplify some things to keep the energy and community going.

I do like the idea of an flying competition-focused fly-in vs a HR fly-in with a more social/festive format. Seems that with two area clubs that we could sustain two fly-ins.

[brianvh]

Dave and other newer pilots:

The Pulpit contest component has rarely actually happened at the Pulpit: always used the option to go to Bill's, Fisher or High Rock/Woodstock. This pretty much worked for the contest, but since losing fisher the options have been fewer. So that's not a new idea. The problem is that about 50% of the time the weather is universally bad on any given day. And XC conditions require more than launchable winds.

WARNING: nasty statement to follow.
As someone who has organized many of these fixed date fly-ins, my feelings approach contempt for those who ditch a fixed-date fly-in just because they can't fly. The High Rock fly-in is specifically to support the carbaughs, so those who don't come because they can't fly that particular day are slackers who seem to favor the 'play without pay' philosophy. Those who send money whether they appear or not have nobly redeemed themselves, but those who don't do anything because it's 'not worth it' are not supporting the team. I remember the Highland folks being stuck with and having to pay for lots of food and T-shirts once because people didn't feel it was 'worth it' to show up. That's just wrong. If you don't show, send in the fee!

All of that was just to say we shouldn't be doing a movable date event just to increase pilot attendance, because people should be attending anyway if they can. Proceeds from the Pulpit Fly-in theoretically go to the rescue crew. We likely will lose pilot attendance without a fixed date, so the question is, is it worth it?

We already have a fixed date contest supporting people who need it (High Rock and the Carbaughs). Variety would be nice, and a guaranteed XC contest would be even nicer. If we take Janni's suggestion of everyone bringing potluck, but still charging a $25 contest fee (with beer thrown in, easy to do), the increase in revenue per pilot might cancel the loss of attendance. This is why I think it's worth trying once, and bundle all the raffle efforts into High Rock.

[davidtheamazing1]

If you want organize a fly-in without any chance of flight... Why not just move it to a venue somewhere in the metro area? Driving 100 miles each way is my least favorite aspect of flying while working and living in DC.

[brianvh]

You put a fly-in at the location there's a better than 50% chance of flying somewhere nearby, but you can't promise that when you schedule it.

You're not driving 100 miles to a fly-in just to fly, you are travelling to camp and party with the hope of flying. People who don't like to drive should not be making day trips to a fly-in. Driving 100 miles to camp is not unreasonable.

But this thread is not about defending fixed fly-ins. It's about whether it's worth abandoning a fixed fly-in for a movable one. I'm only in favor of it because we already have one fixed fly-in, they are a lot of work, and it's heartbreaking when people don't show up because of the weather (though this should NOT be happening!). It's good to experiment, and given the circumstances, the Pulpit is the best of the two fly-ins to experiment with.

[RedBaron]

As someone who has organized many of these fixed date fly-ins, my feelings approach contempt for those who ditch a fixed-date fly-in just because they can't fly. The High Rock fly-in is specifically to support the carbaughs, so those who don't come because they can't fly that particular day are slackers who seem to favor the 'play without pay' philosophy. Those who send money whether they appear or not have nobly redeemed themselves, but those who don't do anything because it's 'not worth it' are not supporting the team. I remember the Highland folks being stuck with and having to pay for lots of food and T-shirts once because people didn't feel it was 'worth it' to show up. That's just wrong. If you don't show, send in the fee!

Having organized a Fly-In myself I share your sentiments. The above problems can be easily corrected by registering pilots. Those who didn't better bring their own food and shirts. And, I'd like to be nasty for once, too. Spending hundreds of dollars on massive spreads of food and booze, trophies and what not, whether for the HR party or the Pulpit Fly-In, is pure insanity and does nothing to support the Carboughs or the Rescue Squad. If you want to make supporting people your main point, at least get the economics straightened out.

Btw, the only reason we made a modest profit at the Pulpit Fly-In was because it was flyable at WS that day.

[RichH]

Let me start by saying that I have been flying since 1978 and left the sport in 2000 ...and know I'm looking forward to the day where can soar again with my friends and have taken a few lessons over the past few weeks to get my flying legs backI I have worked as a full time H.G. instructor (sport flight)and was a full time pilot for several years having the opportunity to fly just about any day I wanted to ..That experience as given me a bit of perspective and I believe its x-c more than you realize and there are times that sites are very soarable even tough they might not be ridge soarable..I love the idea of calling tasks and flying towards a goal..and i think /know that you would be suprised how often a goal that on the surface may appear unachievable is actually very doable...I like the idea of selecting a location for a fly in or task holds merit..Sail plane airports call tasks for different skill levels on flyable days..I'd love to see the same kind of opportunity in our community..I also love Fly Ins ...and have had some great times over the years..and yes a few were disappointing that I didn't fly as much as I would like too ( Danny remeber Mt. St Pierre..it rained almost every day..but man we had fun!!) but I also remember Fly Ins at Hyner and flying across the valley on a no wind launch to soar the other side of the canyon climbing to cloudbase and playing for over 3 hours on a day that didn't appear it was going to be flyable. So guys lets do both ..The months of April, May and 1st half of June, later part of September and begining of October or fairly reliable months for x-c opportunity..and I think with some thought we may be able to come up with a site/task/conditions formula that given the conditions could be posted on the internet for a given site on a given weekend...Rich Hiegel