Dickies and Commercial Air Traffic

[eggzkitz]

Most of us that have flown near Dickies are familiar with the traffic in the area. So... after sitting on Dickies launch on Saturday watching the commercial traffic come overhead Dickies about 2k over, one after the the other (including an Osprey!), and flying XC from Dickies on Sunday with a couple other PGs and HGs and hearing calls like "just saw another 737 fly underneath me", I figured it was worth trying to see if there was a way to make flying at Dickies a little safer... With a LOT of help from my Dad (retired pilot) this is what we came up with.

For those unfamiliar with Dickies, it is a special site in many ways. Mostly, it is rare to be able to fly in a National Park, and Shenandoah is one of the few parks that allows us to do so provided we have a special permit. But secondly, it is one of the only sites I have flown that is practically sitting atop a commercial aviation navigation aid. About 100 yards behind launch is the "Linden VORTAC", which is short for a FAA radio facility that is a VOR co-located with TACAN.

For anyone without their air charts handy, a neat website has them online: http://skyvector.com/. Click on global/Baltimore-Washington and you can peruse the area and find the Linden VORTAC near Front Royal. There are 'buttons' on the top of the page which allow you to change between the various charts for the area. "DC Area" is the clearest. BTW- for iPhone users, there is also a neat app called 'skychart' which does the same basic thing.

Note that the IFR charts show a published holding pattern at the VOR. Also note that the IR 720 low level training route (used by military aircraft) passes only 2 miles east of the VOR and directly over the town of Front Royal. This probably explains the V-22 I saw on Saturday...

The local Front Royal airport is marked on the chart as a gliderport, but there is no marking for ultralights/hanggliders in our area. So... to make things a bit safer, my father recommends that we do what other areas do: call the FAA control facility responsible for this area. For us, this is the Shenandoah Sector of Potomac Approach Control. Ideally they might then notify each and every IFR arrival into Dulles passing over the Linden VOR.

He suggested that we could instead be asked to file a temporary or permanent NOTAM (Notice to Airmen). This is the FAA way of getting the word out on out-of-the-ordinary events. A NOTAM discussion may be necessary (particularly from the FAA point of view), but he cautioned against it, as it won't pay off anywhere near as well as the procedure of the paragraph above.

So... next time I fly there I am going to try it. I've got all the phone numbers for anyone else interested in this. Or if anyone has suggestions on this approach, fire away.

In the meantime, know the air routes in your planned flying area, keep your eyes on the horizon, stay out of the clouds, and think through what you'll do if you do sight traffic headed your way (putting the wing broadside to the horizon, turning tightly, is the usual recommendation).

Aloha,
Jeff

[markc]

I was flying (passenger, that is) into Dulles on Sunday in a 757, from San Diego.

The approach pattern took us over "The Knob" at the south end of Short Mountain
(also sometimes called Mt. Jackson) on a Northeast heading.

As we flew over Fort Valley, and then over the South Fork of the Shenandoah
River (approaching Shen. Natl. Park), I could look to the left and see
Edinburg Gap, and then the main Woodstock ridge. At that point we had
dropped below cloudbase, and were well within the altitudes that we can
achieve with HG and PG during a downwind XC. The thermals were definitely popping,
and I wondered what the odds were of seeing someone I knew in one of them.

Then we basically overflew Shen. Natl. Park on a northerly heading, toward
the VORTAC, then on to, and beyond, Front Royal. We then turned East,
but I don't have a landmark for that turn.

On all of my previous trips, the bus has been well ABOVE cloudbase by the
time it reached the Woodstock/Dickey's/etc area. So that might be in
our favor : We don't usually get conditions that will take us to 7 or 8k MSL,
and so the risk of being in the same airspace is lower.

I don't know if there is a minimum altitude for the Dulles approach in that area.
So on any day that you're stinkin' high (over 6k perhaps?), you might want to be
extra vigilant.

And stay out of the clouds!

MarkC

[Pete Schumann]

Great info. Jeff. Thanks for posting, I'd like those phone numbers. I'm not sure though (no pun here) on the best approach. Lets see what others suggest.

Thanks,

Pete

[Ashley Groves]

I was looking at a sectional a while back and I noticed Woodstock was not marked as place where hang gliders often fly, and I was a bit surprised considering the history and frequentness of our activities. I did not look at Dickies.

Perhaps there is a mechanism that we can suggest getting these (and any other appropriate areas) marked? If it is not marked, the pilots will have no mechanism to be warned of our activities.

I too have looked out of a commercial flight window to be looking at Woodstock.

[mikel]

Thank goodness , the 167th airwing doesn't have c-130's anymore.... I used to fly that route on a regular basis during low level tac training...
And coming home from going XC.

I'm afraid you might be running into a brick wall with this one ( assuming you want to change the route or altitude ), the best outcome IMO,
We would get the site marked for gliders on the sectionals...

Now, this VORTAC is used for both civ and mil aircrafts. you could call Washington center in Leesburg, USAF at Andrews AFB, or the FAA directly in DC
should be in the wilbur building if not the orville building at independace and 5th SW

If you need any other help let me know , I'll try to get some #'s for ya....


'til then, Mike

[Joe Schad]

Just a couple of thoughts about flying Dickey's and air traffic:
Arrival traffic generally increases around 3-5pm daily because Linden vor is one of the entry points for approaches to Dullas, and National Airports for Commercial aircraft. If you are at 4000 msl or higher over launch you need to be looking out for traffic coming mainly from the south west and south. If seeing the big iron is a real concern for you stay low or don't fly Dickey's because this is an everyday situation.

The other major arrival is over Winchester for planes coming from the west and northwest and is the most congested arrival on most days. Traffic increases at about the same 3-5pm time frame with commerical aircraft descending to 5,000 msl to be level just east of Winchester. You cannot hear these guys because they are all at idle power on the descent.

Please becareful with calls to the FAA. I am not sure what reaction we might get when they learn of the hang glider/paraglider launch just below the VOR. There needs to be more discussion before we head in that direction.

Joe

PS. Ellis made one 9000 ft call. I made another and said I was descending to get away from the arrival area. All the aircraft that I saw were from my former employer, United.

[Joe Schad]

One last thought. I believe Sunday was the first time anyone has every managed more than 5000ft over at Dickey's. The 9000 msl was a very rare event not likely to be repeated for years. Lets not treat it as if it is a regular affair.

Joe

[mcelrah]

Tamas, another PG pilot, hit 7700 feet the weekend before.

The sailplane club at Front Royal makes a call to Potomac Tracon every day it operates, so we would get any benefit from that on most weekend days. I talked to one of the Soaring Society of America regional directors who is in the club and who is working on the "should sailplanes carry transponders and if so what should they squawk" issue: he says the controllers mostly have no idea what to do with the info that gliders will be in the air - they MAY tack on a statement at the end of a very long ATIS announcement. They only started paying attention when M-ASA up at Fairfield and Frederick agreed to carry transponders and squawk 1400, whereupon M-ASA started edumacating them about gliders and what altitudes they could achieve.

As to my idea of using aviation band radios and communicating with ATC, the regional director doubted they would give us any flight following. On VFR GA flights, I have experienced that courtesy in the past...

I agree that we should be cautious - the authorities' reaction could be " we didn't know you were there - stay out of the air!".

- Hugh

[Ashley Groves]

It is encumbant upon us to be aware that there is a high concentration of air traffic above VORs and also when the pilots attention is divided on activities within the cockpit as well as out.

But I would like to see some more of our sites marked on the sectionals.

Ashley

[XCanytime]

"If seeing the big iron is a real concern for you stay low or don't fly Dickey's because this is an everyday situation."

I remember reading nearly 16 years ago about some pilot's account of his XC from Cumberland the previous summer, and how a 737 flew under him when he was near the Rt. 50 crossing of the Blue Ridge. That news certainly got me studying sectionals intensely. Two years ago when I crossed the Blue Ridge at Chester Gap going XC from Woodstock, I kept my eyes glued on the horizon to the SW looking for planes. I was between 6500' and 6000' MSL at the time. I made tracks to the SSE as quick as I could to get out of the area.

Bacil

[mcelrah]

Bacil,

Which one is Chester Gap?

- Hugh

[XCanytime]

Hugh,
It's where Rt. 522 crosses the Blue Ridge SE of Front Royal.

Bacil

[mcelrah]

Ah, yes. I've been through it a number of times in the trike on the way to/from Warrenton or Gordonsville. My hat is off to you! - Hugh