Resignation
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
- davidtheamazing1
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:26 am
- Location: DC Area - Hang 3!!
- Contact:
Re: Resignation
Wuffo = nonpilot. Generally someone who hangs around at launch sites for the view and with hopes of witnessing an extremely foolish act.
-
- Posts: 709
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:29 pm
Re: Resignation
In previous editions of the HR ramp, the nose man position was useful and often employed. Those ramps stuck out further and higher and put more of the glider wing into the air stream. The nose man could both help with lifting-up and rotating down (from “ramp suck”) of the glider. The new ramp was built with a nose man platform based on tribal practices. After a number of launches it was found that the platform was not very useful likely due to the new airflow patterns. We had contemplated cutting it off until we began to see wuffos walking up to the edge and jumping onto the platform. Collectively we thought this practice was stupid but also recognized that cutting the platform away might turn stupidity into an injury. We decided to leave well enough alone.
And yes, quite a number of people have walked off the edge at HR and perished. In fact, I believe it was the last incident, a girl walked backward off the edge as she adjusted the framing for the photo she was taking of her friend. She survived but had pretty bad injuries. She actually sued the MHGA, CHGA, and Washington County for an unsafe attraction (or something like that.) The USHGA insurance sent in lawyers to defend the case and we won.
Danny Brotto
And yes, quite a number of people have walked off the edge at HR and perished. In fact, I believe it was the last incident, a girl walked backward off the edge as she adjusted the framing for the photo she was taking of her friend. She survived but had pretty bad injuries. She actually sued the MHGA, CHGA, and Washington County for an unsafe attraction (or something like that.) The USHGA insurance sent in lawyers to defend the case and we won.
Danny Brotto
Re: Resignation
wuffo: someone of an inquisitive nature not insecure of exhibiting an ignorance of the activity at hand and making inquiries for the purpose of enlightenment, as in "wuffo you do dis. wuffo you do dat".
sometimes used in a general sense in reference to the uninitiated, sometimes used as an expression of exasperation, especially when repeatedly requested to answer the same question(s) by multiple, sequential inquisitors, often occurring during hang waiting.
garyD
sometimes used in a general sense in reference to the uninitiated, sometimes used as an expression of exasperation, especially when repeatedly requested to answer the same question(s) by multiple, sequential inquisitors, often occurring during hang waiting.
garyD
Re: Resignation
Interesting realization: you generally don't get wuffos at flight parks. Any non-initiates are either there with HG friends so they've had all their questions answered, or they are about to take a lesson, changing the whole nature of the beast.
At mountain sites the spectators generally have no connection to hang gliding.
At mountain sites the spectators generally have no connection to hang gliding.
Brian Vant-Hull
Re: Resignation
It's the rather contemptuous and arrogant nickname we give to non-pilots.
"Wuffo you do dat?" Well, if you have to ask...
This is an ancient argument which has never been resolved (whether it is ever appropriate to use wuffos for wirecrew) and will not be here.
Given smaller crowds at High Rock and Pulpit, we are looking for technical solutions (expanding the slope launch at Pulpit to make unassisted launches possible), so that the last pilot to launch doesn't have to accept a less-than-optimal situation.
The big story here is that we are losing The Mainstays of the club at a time when our business processes are hanging by a thread. We haven't had a meeting in months, the newsletter is defunct, we had to be rescued by the somewhat-revived Maryland club from defaulting on chapter renewal and site insurance, not sure whether the vastly out of date membership roster has been renewed. The club desperately needs new blood on the Board - and volunteers for a number of non-Board jobs, such as the Pulpit fly-in.
That's not to say that the club - or rather, individual club members - haven't done a number of excellent things recently:
- Mark Cavanaugh puts in a good day's work a week on keeping this forum working,
- Joe Schad won a major victory in getting permission to maintain the Dickey's Ridge site within Shenandoah National Park - and the park is actually going to expend scarce funds taking down a few trees to keep the site flyable for another 15 years!
- Matthew (and Daniel Broxterman) did a lot of work on a formal proposal to establish a paraglider launch at High Rock (which would have reduced the need for wire crew/wuffos or not - unfortunately, it looks like the land is actually privately owned...).
- Matthew, once again, was looking into getting a quarry to bring a hundred tons of material to expand the Pulpit slope launch.
- Shawn has been a strong proponent for the Pulpit, an active observer, and a consistent volunteer for work projects.
- the cat rescue project (Ellis organized, but Matthew and Karen, Dave and Jodie Bodner, and Carlos have been strong supporters - even adopting some of the cats) is important for maintaining a key relationship with Emma Jane, owner of the High Rock LZ
- Steve Kinsley helped Emma Jane select and pay for a headstone for her late husband (he may or may not yet have been reimbursed by the club)
It seems to be the pattern that clubs depend on the energy and effort of one or two highly committed individuals: Richard/Leigh and Bob are the ones for MHGA, JR for the Mountaineers, Matthew and Karen filled that role for CHGPA for as long as I've been in the sport. Even when there were other names on the board roster who served with greater or lesser success, it was Matthew who arm-twisted them into it. So I say let's honor Matthew and Karen's stamina and energy in maintaining the organizational structure we require in order to be able to fly in the mountains. There are a lot of talented people in the club; it's time to step up and fill this void.
- Hugh
"Wuffo you do dat?" Well, if you have to ask...
This is an ancient argument which has never been resolved (whether it is ever appropriate to use wuffos for wirecrew) and will not be here.
Given smaller crowds at High Rock and Pulpit, we are looking for technical solutions (expanding the slope launch at Pulpit to make unassisted launches possible), so that the last pilot to launch doesn't have to accept a less-than-optimal situation.
The big story here is that we are losing The Mainstays of the club at a time when our business processes are hanging by a thread. We haven't had a meeting in months, the newsletter is defunct, we had to be rescued by the somewhat-revived Maryland club from defaulting on chapter renewal and site insurance, not sure whether the vastly out of date membership roster has been renewed. The club desperately needs new blood on the Board - and volunteers for a number of non-Board jobs, such as the Pulpit fly-in.
That's not to say that the club - or rather, individual club members - haven't done a number of excellent things recently:
- Mark Cavanaugh puts in a good day's work a week on keeping this forum working,
- Joe Schad won a major victory in getting permission to maintain the Dickey's Ridge site within Shenandoah National Park - and the park is actually going to expend scarce funds taking down a few trees to keep the site flyable for another 15 years!
- Matthew (and Daniel Broxterman) did a lot of work on a formal proposal to establish a paraglider launch at High Rock (which would have reduced the need for wire crew/wuffos or not - unfortunately, it looks like the land is actually privately owned...).
- Matthew, once again, was looking into getting a quarry to bring a hundred tons of material to expand the Pulpit slope launch.
- Shawn has been a strong proponent for the Pulpit, an active observer, and a consistent volunteer for work projects.
- the cat rescue project (Ellis organized, but Matthew and Karen, Dave and Jodie Bodner, and Carlos have been strong supporters - even adopting some of the cats) is important for maintaining a key relationship with Emma Jane, owner of the High Rock LZ
- Steve Kinsley helped Emma Jane select and pay for a headstone for her late husband (he may or may not yet have been reimbursed by the club)
It seems to be the pattern that clubs depend on the energy and effort of one or two highly committed individuals: Richard/Leigh and Bob are the ones for MHGA, JR for the Mountaineers, Matthew and Karen filled that role for CHGPA for as long as I've been in the sport. Even when there were other names on the board roster who served with greater or lesser success, it was Matthew who arm-twisted them into it. So I say let's honor Matthew and Karen's stamina and energy in maintaining the organizational structure we require in order to be able to fly in the mountains. There are a lot of talented people in the club; it's time to step up and fill this void.
- Hugh
-
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:15 pm
Re: Resignation
Thanks. I guess us bag pilots don't get as many "wuffo" questions... or we don't need as much help launching.
Except now that I think about it... "wuffo you go backwards?"
Except now that I think about it... "wuffo you go backwards?"
Jeff Eggers
CHGPA President
USHPA 82627
FCC KK4QMQ
CHGPA President
USHPA 82627
FCC KK4QMQ
Re: Resignation
On the drive home, I remembered another good news story to alleviate the gloom created by Matthew and Karen's resignation:
- the site guide, which Christie Huddle maintained in paper form for 14 years (!) was converted to digital form by a guy who never even flew here (Ultimate Frisbee junkie), then Charlie Givans took it and added pictures and other rich content.
I'm sure there are other examples of volunteerism that I have forgotten...
- Hugh
- the site guide, which Christie Huddle maintained in paper form for 14 years (!) was converted to digital form by a guy who never even flew here (Ultimate Frisbee junkie), then Charlie Givans took it and added pictures and other rich content.
I'm sure there are other examples of volunteerism that I have forgotten...
- Hugh
-
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:13 am
- Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Re: Resignation
Regarding wuffo wire crews: Stupid. We've all done it and personally I won't do it again. Ever. My personal experience was up in Cape Cod. I yelled "CLEAR" and everybody let go except the wuffo tail wire guy. I was leaning and lunging and going nowhere! I remember thinking..."Jesus Christ....how hard IS the wind blowing?" Then the side wire guy yelled at the tail wire wuffo to "LET GO". He did, I shot off like a rubber band and all ended well.
Found out later the guy didn't speak English. When I had pre-screened him prior to launch, he just nodded and smiled. Turned out he was from France and didn't really speak English. LMAO. But...think of the consequences if he had been on the side? !!!
Another "brilliant" wire crew moment that some of you may not be aware of was when an experienced pilot on the side wire was picked up and thrown forward (in high winds)..... and off the ramp at High Rock !!! The gliders wing swung 180 degrees around and everybody else on the wing held on. Including the now airborne wire-man. He held on for dear life...literally....and landed opposite of where he started, back on the ramp. Nobody was injured. Nobody died.
But....that said, the potential for mis-hap is HUGE with and inexperienced wuffo on the wing. And Matthew is absolutely right about the very real likelyhood of a HUGE lawsuit following such as mishap. Remember; your insurance only covers you up to a certain limit. Anything beyond that is your baby. If a jury finds you guilty and negligent, you could be on the hook for the amount above and beyond the policy limits. Is it really worth it?
People jump off or fall off of High Rock with more frequency than you may realize. I witnessed one drunk fall off a few years ago. Fell about 40 feet and lived. Got a helicopter ride too. Two flights in one day for him. And...the club(s) were sued not to long ago because of some J-ass who committed suicide there. So...lawsuits are a real deal and they can and will jump up and bite you on the arse in the "wuffo wire crew person dies" scenario.
So the official "Rule and Regulation" for that site and any other club owned or managed site should be "Do Not use spectators aka non-USHPA members!"
Richard Hays
Prez. MHGA
Found out later the guy didn't speak English. When I had pre-screened him prior to launch, he just nodded and smiled. Turned out he was from France and didn't really speak English. LMAO. But...think of the consequences if he had been on the side? !!!
Another "brilliant" wire crew moment that some of you may not be aware of was when an experienced pilot on the side wire was picked up and thrown forward (in high winds)..... and off the ramp at High Rock !!! The gliders wing swung 180 degrees around and everybody else on the wing held on. Including the now airborne wire-man. He held on for dear life...literally....and landed opposite of where he started, back on the ramp. Nobody was injured. Nobody died.
But....that said, the potential for mis-hap is HUGE with and inexperienced wuffo on the wing. And Matthew is absolutely right about the very real likelyhood of a HUGE lawsuit following such as mishap. Remember; your insurance only covers you up to a certain limit. Anything beyond that is your baby. If a jury finds you guilty and negligent, you could be on the hook for the amount above and beyond the policy limits. Is it really worth it?
People jump off or fall off of High Rock with more frequency than you may realize. I witnessed one drunk fall off a few years ago. Fell about 40 feet and lived. Got a helicopter ride too. Two flights in one day for him. And...the club(s) were sued not to long ago because of some J-ass who committed suicide there. So...lawsuits are a real deal and they can and will jump up and bite you on the arse in the "wuffo wire crew person dies" scenario.
So the official "Rule and Regulation" for that site and any other club owned or managed site should be "Do Not use spectators aka non-USHPA members!"
Richard Hays
Prez. MHGA
Re: Resignation
I remember one time when I was 12 or 13 years old and walked past a magazine rack in a corner grocery store along with my older and more experienced best friend. One of the rag mags in the rack had a headline that said something about being a virgin. I turned to my friend and said, "what's a virgin?" Needless to say the response was self evident.eggzkitz wrote:What's a wuffo?
Anyway a wuffo is a (typically inquisitive) spectator who is not a pilot. The term appears to come from the seemingly inevitable questions centered around the "what's this for, what's that fo,"questions that we usually get from these spectators. This then became shortened to Wuffo for a spectator.
Some of us who have been around a while knew an old time pilot named Ed Reno. Sometime when you are debating the subject off this list server ask the old times about his experience with a wuffo wire crew.
Dan T, aka wuffo1@...
Re: Resignation
Well, since you mention it: Ed Reno died due, as is often the case, to a number of errors, including use of inappropriate wirecrew. But the main thing, if I am not mistaken, was attempting to launch in crazy strong conditions.
Part of the ethic of free flight is pilot responsibility for one's own safety (doesn't mean it's OK to kill yourself since the consequences for the rest of the flying community may last after your death). Back when there were a lot more participants and glider performance was marginal at best, people used to "have" to launch in what we would now regard as unacceptably strong conditions. Nose and wire crew got experienced at assisting pilots in these conditions. For better or worse, these skills are becoming less widespread in the community - and we don't really have to accept extreme conditions to have satisfactory flights.
I'm not really an old-timer in the sport with direct knowledge; the above is based on interaction with some of the real old-timers. I'm thinking of buying Big Blue Sky, a documentary about the early days with high pilot attrition rates. Maybe we'll have time to watch it together at the next club meeting, scheduled for 24 April, at Matthew and Karen's house (in their capacity as private members - see you don't have to be an officer to volunteer for stuff).
- Hugh
P.S. How ya doing Dan? Look forward to seeing you back and being bi-wingual!
Part of the ethic of free flight is pilot responsibility for one's own safety (doesn't mean it's OK to kill yourself since the consequences for the rest of the flying community may last after your death). Back when there were a lot more participants and glider performance was marginal at best, people used to "have" to launch in what we would now regard as unacceptably strong conditions. Nose and wire crew got experienced at assisting pilots in these conditions. For better or worse, these skills are becoming less widespread in the community - and we don't really have to accept extreme conditions to have satisfactory flights.
I'm not really an old-timer in the sport with direct knowledge; the above is based on interaction with some of the real old-timers. I'm thinking of buying Big Blue Sky, a documentary about the early days with high pilot attrition rates. Maybe we'll have time to watch it together at the next club meeting, scheduled for 24 April, at Matthew and Karen's house (in their capacity as private members - see you don't have to be an officer to volunteer for stuff).
- Hugh
P.S. How ya doing Dan? Look forward to seeing you back and being bi-wingual!
Re: Resignation
'saw that one from the lz perspective. he was out (and i mean Out ), around and back. 'couldn't believe my eyes.Richard Hays wrote: Another "brilliant" wire crew moment that some of you may not be aware of was when an experienced pilot on the side wire was picked up and thrown forward (in high winds)..... and off the ramp at High Rock !!! The gliders wing swung 180 degrees around and everybody else on the wing held on. Including the now airborne wire-man. He held on for dear life...literally....and landed opposite of where he started, back on the ramp.
garyD
Re: Resignation
I suspect if a pilot were to die because he used wuffos ('what's this for' morphed into wuffo), the wuffos who tried to help him would be pretty traumatized. And yes, Yanni, this did happen at the Pulpit.
I find it pretty odd that it will take a dead wuffo for you to think we're serious about this.
Christy
I find it pretty odd that it will take a dead wuffo for you to think we're serious about this.
Christy
-
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:22 pm
- Location: Charles Town WV.
Re: Resignation
Thanks Mathew and Karen for your years of service on the board.
There is a solution to doing away with wuffo assisted launches at the Pulpit. We can turn Pulpit into H2 site and make it very atractive to the new and incoming hang glider pilots by improving the slope between the ramps that is currently being used by paraglider pilots. This can eliminate the need for a full wire crew. Few pilots have already used it, including myself. However I can not with a clear concience recomend it to any inexpirienced pilots. The slope needs to be work on. Gregory the Greek and I have spoken to the board members of the CHGPA and voluntiered to provide the labor. We have asked for the club funds to rent the nessesery equipment and pay for the gravel. Just thank about the potential for turning Pulpit into a runing slope lunch within an eazy glide to the old primery up front. We can return Pulpit to its old glory.
Krystof
There is a solution to doing away with wuffo assisted launches at the Pulpit. We can turn Pulpit into H2 site and make it very atractive to the new and incoming hang glider pilots by improving the slope between the ramps that is currently being used by paraglider pilots. This can eliminate the need for a full wire crew. Few pilots have already used it, including myself. However I can not with a clear concience recomend it to any inexpirienced pilots. The slope needs to be work on. Gregory the Greek and I have spoken to the board members of the CHGPA and voluntiered to provide the labor. We have asked for the club funds to rent the nessesery equipment and pay for the gravel. Just thank about the potential for turning Pulpit into a runing slope lunch within an eazy glide to the old primery up front. We can return Pulpit to its old glory.
Krystof
Polonus: Polish Eagle
Krzysztof cell# 301 370-1442
Krzysztof cell# 301 370-1442
Re: Resignation
Krystof,POLISH EAGLE wrote: We can turn Pulpit into H2 site and make it very atractive to the new and incoming hang glider pilots by improving the slope between the ramps that is currently being used by paraglider pilots.
The Pulpit is not designated as H3/H2 with Observer due to the launch. The Observer-required-for-H2 status is due to the necessity of flying at least a bit of ridge soaring to make it to the primary LZ. Encouraging H2s o launch from the slope between the ramps would only exacerbate the situation, making it even more necessary to run a bit of ridge to reach the LZ. THe extra elevation of the ramps helps.
Cragin
Douglas.Cragin(AT)iCloud(DOT)com
Weather - https://sites.google.com/site/hgweather/
Flying - http://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/
Kay's Stuff- http://kayshappenings.blogspot.com/
GO to 50 https://sites.google.com/site/hgmemories/Home/50th
Douglas.Cragin(AT)iCloud(DOT)com
Weather - https://sites.google.com/site/hgweather/
Flying - http://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/
Kay's Stuff- http://kayshappenings.blogspot.com/
GO to 50 https://sites.google.com/site/hgmemories/Home/50th
-
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:15 pm
Re: Resignation
Krystof et al.
Before he resigned, Matthew had the action to do a bit more research with the quarry folks (who would be providing the fill material) on:
- what kind of materal to use in what order,
- how to get big dump trucks p to the crest of the slope,
- whether they would have any heavy equipment to bust up the big rocks (some concern that the kind of stuff we can rent will be inadequate),
- what sort of retaining wall we would need to keep it all from washing away in a big rainstorm, etc.
The Board is ready in principle to spend some money for equipment rental, fill material etc. - but we need to spend some time/effort/money planning before we just jump into a do-it-yourself project that might turn out to be unsatisfactory.
I'll ask Matthew if he is still willing to work on that aspect. Yours and Greg's participation in planning and executing this project is most welcome as well.
- Hugh
Before he resigned, Matthew had the action to do a bit more research with the quarry folks (who would be providing the fill material) on:
- what kind of materal to use in what order,
- how to get big dump trucks p to the crest of the slope,
- whether they would have any heavy equipment to bust up the big rocks (some concern that the kind of stuff we can rent will be inadequate),
- what sort of retaining wall we would need to keep it all from washing away in a big rainstorm, etc.
The Board is ready in principle to spend some money for equipment rental, fill material etc. - but we need to spend some time/effort/money planning before we just jump into a do-it-yourself project that might turn out to be unsatisfactory.
I'll ask Matthew if he is still willing to work on that aspect. Yours and Greg's participation in planning and executing this project is most welcome as well.
- Hugh