WIND TURBINES at Woodstock Massanutten GW forest.

[pink_albatross]

Thanks so much to everybody who showed up and represented us at the meeting.
I wish I could have taken off as well. I am very grateful to you who did donate time and effort to voice our concerns!
Make sure to give me a call when you need a retrieve!
Thank you!
-- ellis

[dbodner]

There is an application in the works for a windfarm, to be located on the VA/WVA border
within the George Wash. National Forest.

If it truly is on the VA/WVA border, we're safe. That's the next ridge over, I believe.

[CraginS]

[quote="dbodner"][quote]If it truly is on the VA/WVA border, we're safe. [/quote]

For now, maybe. The proposal is for the far ridge,.However, if you look at the maps on the web site, you will see the USFS has already marked several areas along the east ridge (where we fly, as potentially suitable for wind generation.

[Joe Schad]

If we are to preserve the ridge at woodstock we will need to start and continue to pressure our elected officials to not put wind turbines along the Massanutten ridge nor should they be anywhere near any existing launch area. So write your congressman and senator to urge them not to build the wind farms. The national forest should be for the enjoyment of its citizens not the use of big business for profit enterprise. Build the wind farms on private land! There is plenty of it north of the Washington and Jefferson national forest area.

Joe

[stevek]

Joe Joe Joe. If they had to use private land they'd have to pay rent, then they wouldn't make a profit. The concept that land is free is central to the industry (that and the stray tax subsidy of course).

Other than making sure the Forest Service is notified in writing that wind turbines are not compatible with our activities (and that we are an activity recognized by the Forest Service) I am not sure how much we can actually do. We are pretty small potatoes. The locals are the ones that have to get involved and write there reps. If the locals are strident and obnoxious enough the turbinators may look for easier pickings. Possibly we can encourage the locals but I have no idea how to go about doing that.

[Matthew]

Again. It's all about economics. Gotta stress the Woodstock effect. If they put wind turbines across the valley on the ridge West of Woodstock-- fine. Then we can all look across the valley from launch and see the blades spinning and say--

Why the F$CK aren't we getting any of that wind???

Matthew

[deveil]

it will never hurt the hang gliding community to be seen to be standing along side the local woodstock area community. there's the old saw about it not being enough to merely do good - one needs to be Seen doing good. in other words, at a bare minimum it's a rich opportunity to solidify and enhance hand gliding's local image, regardless of the outcome or if, as janni mentioned, another site would be the eventual recourse. and of course, the more people who stand shoulder to shoulder, the bigger the crowd. and there are people in this community with work experience that could be of help in perhaps small but significant ways to those not "inside the beltway". as also noted by janni, the local papers may start doing more features about the impacts on all those who use of the area. again, all good. etc. etc.
markC made a passing comment about having made some contacts with other like minded people. that sort of thing is what can be done at the present and thus the important things to do at the present. the public meeting may have been just a 'feel good' exercise but it also facilitated some of the above. imho.
though, as a demonstration of self awareness, acknowledging the limits of my personal abilities, once i realized that i had done all i could by signing in and being put on the official record as a supporter of the hg community - i bailed before the meeting started! who wants to sit through a damn useless boring public meeting anyhow!
garyD

[Dan T]

At some point these meetings get inserted into the Federal Register although this might not happen until the environmental impact or assessment stage. The number and type of dissentions get recorded and must be addressed in the determination. Your input put us on record, that's an important step in the process and it's value should not be underestimated.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the USFS manages it's lands and resources based upon a concept of "highest and best use." This definition has traditionally favored the timber industry. The timber industry does not have to purchase the property for which their permits enable them to harvest the timber, nor will the market value of the property come into play in this determination. The other factors you all mentioned will.

Also now the promoter knows about the Woodstock effect and therefore has an obligation to investigate it and disclose the results of that investigation to his investors. This fact alone could shift their attention towards other more suitable and potentially less controversial sites earlier in the process than might otherwise have occurred.

Thank all of you who participated in this. It's democracy at work. You all deserve a pat on the back, tempered by the recognition that this is only round one of a long match.

Dan T

[mcelrah]

On the point of involving local landowners, the young pilot whose first name is Hubble comes from a family that owns several large parcels in the valley. Adam or Homer might know how to contact him - or was that family at the meeting anyway? - hugh

[Tad Eareckson]

Long time back, Skip Brown had a rather spectacular shot of the stretch of the range with which we're concerned published as a centerfold in the magazine. It's from high and maybe a ways NE over the ridges and looking down and SW over a Comet and towards Edinburg Gap and beyond. A copy of that might make a pretty good Exhibit A.

1988 is my best guess. Maybe someone with the DVDs could start searching from there.

[brianvh]

a more recent article by keith ford had a beautiful shot too from up high looking down the ridge.

[deveil]

just 'blue skying' here as regards the concept of this being a good opportunity for increasing the visibility of the club and the sport - a small add in the local paper making a bland innocuous statement regarding this whole thing and the clubs support or position or something. very oblique and non polarizing. or letter to the editor. probably after some other more mainstream group has initiated something. possibly someone, or some appointed group, could be formed to coordinate and ensure a consistent, beneficial approach. you know, so some wacko doesn't just go sounding off(!)
how 'bout one a them 'quick response teams' like what the politicos use? or maybe signs or hecklers or smoke bombs at the ready! ooooh, that's right, no wacko stuff.
will there be any local business or local government groups who would be having meetings. would a hg rep simply being there to 'show the flag' do any good? etc.
and by 'showing the flag' i'm Definitely not meaning picket signs nor hecklers (nor smoke bombs).
garyD

[deveil]

"will there be any local business or local government groups who would be having meetings. would a hg rep simply being there to 'show the flag' do any good?"

i would make a blanket offer of transportation, then go wait in a bar . . . otherwise it's just not my kind of thing - Noo talents in That area.

[deveil]

do like the big boys do. contact all the local media outlets and let them know that there is someone available, names and contact info, if and when they do a story. make it easy for them, do their leg work. already be prepared as to what angle needs to be put forward at any given time, nice sound bites, catchy phrases already prepared.
this is, of course, just a variation on what markC had/has been working up for that "damn useless, boring gov'mnt meeting" (Not useless of course. mere hyperbole). come to think of it, he looked pretty damn photogenic in those khaki shorts with those bulging calves! and that cherubic smile. what a poster boy! though i think janni has the hunky angle down.
garyD (i'm switching over to decaf now)

[Dan T]

GaryD,

I think most of us would agree that you have a good idea. My guess is we'd also agree that you are a good candidate for the job.

Dan T

[deveil]

GaryD,

I think most of us would agree that you have a good idea. My guess is we'd also agree that you are a good candidate for the job.

Dan T

yeah? you forgot the laughing smiley faces! unless you were referring to the part about sitting in the bar.

but here's the last of the installments:
warning; this next would have to be thought through carefully.
this (windmills come to shenandoah) hasn't shown up on local (metro d.c.) tv yet. . . isn't this the kind of thing that all our inside the beltway tv stations will be all over? once one does, won't there be the 'pack jounalism' response? scary stuff.
gotta watch it though. what with gas price hysteria, alternate energy is fast becoming a rather frenzied topic. off shore drilling is almost being cast as an untapped alternative energy source that only the unpatriotic would oppose!
someone is going to frame the initial story and this is where they Love to swing the NIMBY brush . . .
outta my league - way out.

garyD (caffeine buzz hasn't worn off yet and i'm going for tranquilizers cause first i spooked myself and then dan did!)

[deveil]

vic powell might be your man. media experience, camera likes him (from what i remember), professional beautiful voice.

[deveil]

and, when disciplined, Tadd is a great writer (just don't let him on camera, who Knows what he'd start plugging). yeah, you might think you see me being inconsistent, but i don't.
gayD(though the tranquilizers may be starting to kick in)

[deveil]

and yeah, this has all just been words thrown out from the other side of a computer screen and a keyboard, the effort over when the logout button is tapped. no delusions there. no false representations intended.
what it is mainly is giving voice to, and acknowledgment of, what the already existing 'quick response team' of markC, janniP, Carlos, Tony D, Joe & Zelda, Dave P, Craig and others are already doing and attempting to do.
let at least that much be clear.

garrulous-but-not-Delusional
garyD

[deveil]

Also now the promoter knows about the Woodstock effect and therefore has an obligation to investigate it and disclose the results of that investigation to his investors. This fact alone could shift their attention towards other more suitable and potentially less controversial sites earlier in the process than might otherwise have occurred. . . democracy at work. . . tempered by the recognition that this is only round one of a long match.
Dan T

and who knows whether this may be a red herring or a stalking-horse or some corporate idiot who closed his eyes and stuck his finger on a map. regardless, sometimes the more quickly a big fuss is made the more effective it is.
if anyone hears about a legitimate group that is going to put on a petition drive or a canvass - please make the info known. i'd gladly put in the time and do the leg work. that, at least, wouldn't be out of my league. hell, want me to sell pencils on street corners? just let me know. a lot of us have already put in a damn lot of sweat equity in getting woodstock up and humming.
garyD

[deveil]

With the wind ripping down the runway at 20 mph yesterday. . .It is always windy. . .Paul landed 20 miles out in tiger country. Using maps, the computer, and 3 GPS I drove 120 miles to get close to him. At 5 miles out I begged a ranch hand to allow me through a locked gate. I drove around the ranch for an hour and a half, trying to find a way close to Paul. I climbed under 6 barb wire fences and saw deer and wild boar, and scratched the truck on mesquite and cacti. Then I flagged down a cowboy in a truck. He led me through the wild maze of trails and locked gates for another hour, and finally we were only a mile from Paul.
There was another fence, though, so I threw my bike over the fence, and with a cart strapped to me, I took off into the sunset with my GPS in hand. I marked where the truck was and the cowboy turned on his headlights so maybe I could make it back out of the desert.____ Desert bitch___ ( formerly writing under the name Swamp bitch ) ___ (apologies for taking liberties - gd )

While Zapata may be the place to go to set world records, there are many sites around the U.S. where big miles are possible and they're a lot more user-friendly and stress-free than that sh*thole in southeastern Texas. ____ JR

The debate is not whether wind turbines should be built, it is where can they be built for the best net gain (energy less impact on users) and we can influence that decision. ____Tom McG

perhaps lauren and paul will be in the area for one of them gov'mnt meetings and could provide information on alternate sites.


garyD

[deveil]

If we are to preserve the ridge at woodstock we will need to start and continue . . .
Joe

. . .nice sound bites, catchy phrases already prepared. . . garyD

heard a line on a pbs program, while driving to physical therapy (third month now but no tears please (you think You get tired of seeing me show up!)) talking about alternate energy/public policy/candidates/tbonepickens/al gore:

"if you like turbines - know that you'll also need to like transmissions."

referring to all the transmission lines associated with long strings of towers.
the point was also noted that tbone, regardless of the merits of his alternate energy initiatives, has figured out a business angle and is / historically has / can safely be assumed to always be working from his perspective as a capitalist (not that there's anything Wrong with that (seinfield shtick)).

garyD

[DanTuck]

a more recent article by keith ford had a beautiful shot too from up high looking down the ridge.

Don't know if this is that shot or not but I came across it today. It's being sold on allposters dot com.

[deveil]

wind turbines come to the washington post


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01382.html

garyD

[deveil]

Wind Is Given 2nd Look As Energy Needs Grow

By Anita Kumar
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 3, 2008; C07

RICHMOND -- Miles of mountain ridges hugging the state's western border could hold the key to Virginia's search for alternative energy sources.

That is where developers are looking to build more than 100 wind turbines taller than the Statue of Liberty, side by side, on 18 miles of the George Washington National Forest.

FreedomWorks, a company with projects in four states, wants to generate electricity for the power-hungry Washington area and beyond, despite concerns about disturbing wildlife, spoiling untouched lands and creating noise and light pollution.

As the United States searches for ways to lessen its dependency on foreign oil, wind energy is getting a second look in states such as Virginia that had not embraced it.

The national push, along with new state financial incentives for renewable energy, has prompted more interest in wind turbines in Virginia.

"Wind is catching fire," said L. Preston Bryant Jr., Virginia's secretary of natural resources. "It is literally all the rage."

Virginia is one of a dozen states, most of them in the Southeast, with no wind farms. But that might change this year.

The State Corporation Commission has approved a request by another company to build 19 turbines in remote, mountainous Highland County, known as Virginia's Switzerland. That is expected to produce enough electricity to power 15,000 homes in the mid-Atlantic. Construction is expected to begin this year.

Two smaller projects would power Tangier and Wallops islands off the Virginia coast. And Dominion Virginia Power, the largest energy provider in the state, with 2.3 million customers, is working with BP Alternative Energy North America to build and operate wind farms in Virginia. No locations have been announced.

"There is a lot of really good opportunity in Virginia," said Frank Maisano, a lobbyist for 13 wind developers in the mid-Atlantic states, including Virginia and Maryland.

But the new push for wind energy in Virginia has highlighted a conflict within the environmental community.

Some groups, which have long clamored for more renewable energy sources and encouraged wind power instead of a new coal-burning power plant in southwest Virginia, oppose the FreedomWorks project, the largest wind proposal in the state, because of the potential harm to plants and animals.

"We are strong advocates for renewable energy and wind energy," said Glen Besa, director of the Virginia chapter of the Sierra Club. "But we would like to see it developed responsibly."

Mike Tidwell, director of the Chesapeake Climate Action Network, one of the few groups that supports the FreedomWorks project, said the problem in Virginia is that by the time developers came, their opponents were well-organized.

But, Tidwell said, he thinks opponents in Virginia will change their minds about wind energy when they see a wind farm for themselves and that it is harmless. "Acceptance will grow," he said.

More than half of Virginia's energy comes from coal, a third from nuclear and a small amount from gas, oil and other sources. The state's energy needs are expected to grow by about 1 million homes in the next decade.

Last year, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) presented a plan that calls for in-state energy production, including wind, to increase 20 percent. Some experts have estimated that wind energy in Virginia, on land and offshore, has the potential to produce as much as 20 percent of the state's electric needs.

Today, wind power generates enough electricity in 34 states to power 5 million homes -- slightly more than 1 percent of the U.S. electric supply, according to the American Wind Energy Association in Washington. Maryland officials have approved one wind farm and are considering two others in the western part of the state. None of the projects has been built.

"It's no longer an alternative energy source," said Randall Swisher, executive director of the American Wind Energy Association. "It's mainstream."

In May, the U.S. Energy Department released a first-of-its kind report that calls for the country to generate 20 percent of its electricity through wind power by 2030. That national push, combined with state incentives, have fueled the flurry of activity in Virginia.

Last year, when the General Assembly rewrote the complex laws that govern Virginia's power companies, legislators set a goal that 12 percent of the energy generated in the state come from renewable resources by 2022. The legislation includes financial incentives for power companies that allow them to raise rates by a half-percent if they meet one of the goals.

Don Giecek, director of the Virginia Wind Energy Collaborative at James Madison University, said the 2007 law acted as the "economic driver" prompting more interest in Virginia.

But Tidwell, of the Chesapeake Climate Action Network, said the utility-supported law is not tough enough to force companies to act.

"Incentives are fine," he said. "But there's a reason 20-some other states have made it mandatory. It's the most effective, fastest way" to spur change.

FreedomWorks proposed its $430 million project to build 131 turbines, enough to power 86,000 homes, along the Appalachian Mountains after the law went into effect.

Repeated calls to FreedomWorks in Harpers Ferry, W.Va., were not returned. But Maisano, who represents the company, said that the project is in the preliminary stages and that testing could begin this year.

The company has asked the Federal Aviation Administration to determine whether the project might affect air traffic. FAA spokeswoman Arlene Salac said the agency is studying the proposal.

FreedomWorks must seek approval for construction from the U.S. Forest Service and the State Corporation Commission. Neither has been contacted by the company.

But a growing coalition of environmental groups and residents has voiced objections to the 44-story turbines in Rockingham and Shenandoah counties.

Rick Webb, a University of Virginia scientist who studies wind energy, said he generally supports the power source, but he is skeptical that the benefits of a project in the Appalachians would outweigh the environmental costs.

Supporters of the wind project say that private companies are using the forest for logging and that no bird populations would be affected. The project could increase the tax base and provide jobs, they say.

Still, residents keep asking: Why do developers need to build in the forest?

"That's where the wind is," Maisano said.