Scooter Tow

[dbodner]

The two ideas about the canoe trailer and the scooter tow have been batted around by the Board of Directors this week, so I invite the proponents (Janni and Dave Bodner respectively), to state the cases in separate threads so the membership (those who pay their dues and take the time to check the fora) can weigh in. As always, the opinions of those who are willing to pitch in and actually do something should receive more consideration than those who merely complain...

Prazdravlyayu bam s Rozhdestvom Xristovym i s Nobym Godom!

- Hugh

Hmmm--just so happens I've got a complete scooter tow rig with Condors I might part with--would be interesting to see if the club could use it as a recruitment tool and then send students to the benefit of all the schools and instructors in the area. I've often thought the a club-based system of instruction might be a hedge against declining members and instructors. I've helped train one instructor already in Atlanta to teach with scooter towing--pretty easy to do, really.

marc

OK, first of all, I'm not interested in competing with local instructors. If we get a towing setup, I'd limit use to foot launch H2s and above. Ideally it would be used as a demonstrator at formal events in the unlikely event we actually get permission. Alternatively, we could engage in low-level (10-15 feet) guerrilla towing--not in places where it's illegal, like national parks, but in places like underused local parks and school yards, where it's not actually illegal but might be frowned upon by the local officials. Of course, when told to leave, we'll do so without argument.

This would require a core group of pilots, maybe 3, getting towing training, assuming it's available for non-instructors. Why do it? It would be a blast on less-than-ideal flying days. It might also be a good way to get landing practice.

Also, if there are local instructors who are on the fence about getting a towing setup, it could be made available to them, obviating the need for a capital investment.

I'm NOT recommending we spend money on this now. There are too many unanswered questions: Are any local instructors interested? Are any other members interested in taking training? Is the idea of guerrilla towing just totally stupid? Where would we keep the thing, and who would be responsible for upkeep?

I'm interested in your ideas. Feel free to respond on-line or off.

[davidtheamazing1]

Dave,
As a foot-launch H2 that is currently working on my tow rating, I think a club-shared tow system is a great idea.

There may be landowners that have suitable fields in the outer suburbs would allow us to use the equipment on their property. I know it would be possible to find available fields that are even closer than ridgely, blue sky or even our training hills.

Rather restricting it usage, I bet that the system and the permissible flying locations, could be rented to the local instructor(s) for tow training. Perhaps established flight parks would be interested in holding tow classes "in town" to get closer to potential customers, eventually allowing them to draw more new business for AT and other flight park stuff.

As for funding, in addition to the club, the USHPA foundation may grant some funding. Alternatively it might make sense for this to be run "like a business" perhaps dedicated individuals with a good business plan could set things up on their own, and the club could party sponsor the effort in exchange for public demos/etc.
-David

[Flying Lobster]

I think I get what you want--a recreational tow system as opposed to a training system. I use a "low & slow" system as developed by Steve Wendt--it is good only for low-power tows up to perhaps 200 ft.

Operating a tow system is fairly easy for the most part--but it's also fairly easy to get someone hurt or killed if you don't know what you're doing. This requires proper training, upkeep and a core of pilots willing to dedicate themselves to consistent use. Otherwise, it will simply sit in someone's garage and take up space. The liability thing is probably going to be a thorny issue if this were to be a club-related activity outside the purview of formal instructor-operator, I would guess.

My recommendation would be to get club members out in the field looking for and opening new flying sites. Requires little training, is much cheaper and will benefit the entire club.

marc

[dbodner]

A recreational tow system would be great if we secured a large plot of private land. But that's not what I'm talking about.

For demos on public land, low and slow is the way. There are lots of places where the local officials never bothered restricting HG. If we keep it to 10-12 feet AGL we just might avoid freaking them out to the point where they feel they have to specifically bar HG. If we take it to 50 feet, freak out is guaranteed. There might be some psychological comfort if we never even release from tow. The tow operator just lets the line go slack, and the pilot lands.

[silverwings]

I all ready did scooter tow operation training with Steve and I like the idea very much BUT besides the investment the biggest problem I see is finding a suitable long enough area within a reasonable distance and getting permission to use the property. As I remember I think Steve was suggestion on the order of 1000'. With very low tows such as suggested in this topic you could probably be OK with 500'. So where do you have in mind that this could be used and we have permission?

[Spark]

Inexpensive club tow system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0eWmVhQ9Tg

Y'all should do it at the Mall for the next Kite Festival.

[brianvh]

If there's some way to physically limit it to reduce the possibility of dangerous mistakes, it would be a great way to increase public visibility. I think the release is important so people can see that we actually do fly the things.

[RedBaron]

I don't want to complain but this thing will sit in some garage for most of the time. While I can see some great potential for it at the Kite festival and a few other occasions where we can go and have fun with it I really believe that it belongs in the hands of a competent instructor. The club should split the funds and let both John and Richard know they will be subsidized with half the investment costs if they want to enter the 21st century of HG training. That's a real incentive I think.

[RedBaron]

About the canoe trailer. Well, interest ain't so great and I'm not sure anymore if a few snowy days at Woodstock justify this purchase and all the hassle that comes with it. So, I'm having second thoughts and would much rather see the club help John and Richard snap out of it and get their hands on scooter tow.

[Matthew]

I have asked the Kite Festival organizers about towing on several occasions and the answer ws always a big fat NOOOOOO!

Matthew

[mcelrah]

Janni, i understand you are backing off on the canoe trailer idea, but I just want to understand - was this something that would fit under the locked gate when loaded? - Hugh

[RedBaron]

While I neither know the height of the gate nor that of the trailer I suspect it would indeed fit under, the trailer doesn't stand much higher than the hitch of a truck.

[mcelrah]

On the scooter tow: there is a strip park along the creek here in Hyattsville/Riverdale that would work with N/S winds. I suppose the authority is Maryland-National Capital Parks & Planning Commission (M-NCPPC). I suppose one could do "guerrilla towing" since there's no sign saying "no hang- or paragliding" and people do fly kites here. From FAA's point of niew, we are inside the class B airspace and close (but not too close) to College Park airport, but operations below 200 feet (and perhaps "tethered") might not be considered true flying. Also, helicopters use this as a corridor, but they are higher, certainly no lower than 500 feet.

College Park airport used to have a fly-in before 9/11. They might resurrect it, and would probably welcome scooter tow at a specific time in the program - they had paramotors once...

- Hugh

[tdilisio]

Winchester Regional Airport (KOKV) hosts a annual fly in around Sept./ October time frame. Not sure how to go about requesting a spot, but I know there are vendors of flying related stuff there. Maybe start at... http://websmart66.net/cgi-bin/p/w66p-ai ... n-services