So we've got the president of the USHPA visiting CHGPA, the first time we've
had that level of attention from our association since I've been flying...
And we're literally begging to give out a cool $1000 in cold hard cash,
donated by an extremely generous benefactor, to those who make a
special effort and attend the meeting from afar...
And all we can muster is 16 people? Half of whom are the 'regulars',
BOD members and the like; and of the other half, 2 non-pilot visitors,
and 2 newcomer pilots?
That's IT?
Give me a break, talk about PATHETIC!!!!
For a meeting when members have an opportunity to comment on the
USHPA strategic plan, suggest ways to retain and increase the membership,
promote the sport, and save flying sites? To find out how USHPA is
presenting itself to organizations like the NAA and the Dept of the Interior?
I'm speechless.
Wake up people, your flying sites will be GONE without your
involvement, your volunteerism, and your willingness to help new
pilots transition to solo flight.
But hell, we can't even get a single photo submitted to the CHGPA
photo gallery, why should I be surprised?
MarkC
Apathy... Pathetic!
Moderator: CHGPA BOD
I'm afraid it's all just getting harder. I live and work only 3 miles from the meeting, and I was dragging by end of the evening. My hat is off to those who came in from Montgomery County (Mark and Carlos) and other regions.
We may just have to come to grips with the reality that we aren't going to have a real crowd at these meetings. I'm not sure what the upshot of that is.
But, responding to Matthew, I don't think the sport is dead. We're still flying; the insurance is getting paid. That's gonna continue. And I'm encouraged when I see enthusiastic new people coming in, like at the Pulpit fly-in.
I'm also hopeful that a mentoring system, like Lisa spoke about, might better nurture the on-the-fence types.
Still, y'all missed an interesting presentation. Lisa Tate is one impressive president. I felt privileged to be able to listen to the conversation. And I hated pulling myself away from the table at the brewpub afterwards to go home and go to bed.
We may just have to come to grips with the reality that we aren't going to have a real crowd at these meetings. I'm not sure what the upshot of that is.
But, responding to Matthew, I don't think the sport is dead. We're still flying; the insurance is getting paid. That's gonna continue. And I'm encouraged when I see enthusiastic new people coming in, like at the Pulpit fly-in.
I'm also hopeful that a mentoring system, like Lisa spoke about, might better nurture the on-the-fence types.
Still, y'all missed an interesting presentation. Lisa Tate is one impressive president. I felt privileged to be able to listen to the conversation. And I hated pulling myself away from the table at the brewpub afterwards to go home and go to bed.
David Bodner
There are many assumptions here.
While I understand the frustrations involved, berating people might not be the most effective way to address them.
Also, do remember that writing loses tone. Much of what has been said here would sound better, and make more sense, in conversation. Here it sounds plain rude.
A couple assumpions for example...
The level of interest for hearing the prez talk does not equate to the level of interest in the sport.
The scheduling necessary for a weekend flying trip and a midweek meeting are two radically different things.
The involvement in a meeting does not reflect the involvement in the sport.
Ok,
Now,
Devil's advocate...
Bear in mind that I do this for a living. To say I have a vested interest is an understatement.
For me to leave the airport is an undertaking. I lack reliable transportation. Remember woodstock? I didn't make it home, and that was essentially a trip to Annapolis.
However, I'll also tell you that my level of interest in hearing what the prez has to say is minimal.
My lack of attendance for an oldschool corperate 'powerpoint meeting' may give you some insight as to my views on meetings, and even a bit into my oppinions of the ushpa (be careful though), but please do not make the leap to it being the downfall of our sport. That's just insulting.
What I would suggest is that you look at this from a different perspective.
You've identified something that doesn't work.
Midweek powerpoint meetings do not draw a crowd... even if you pay them.
Perhaps it would be money/time/effort best spent elsewhere.
I can't tell you how many powerpoint presentations I (and many others) actively avoided in corperate america. Perhaps a different approach is in order?
While I understand the frustrations involved, berating people might not be the most effective way to address them.
Also, do remember that writing loses tone. Much of what has been said here would sound better, and make more sense, in conversation. Here it sounds plain rude.
A couple assumpions for example...
The level of interest for hearing the prez talk does not equate to the level of interest in the sport.
The scheduling necessary for a weekend flying trip and a midweek meeting are two radically different things.
The involvement in a meeting does not reflect the involvement in the sport.
Ok,
Now,
Devil's advocate...
Bear in mind that I do this for a living. To say I have a vested interest is an understatement.
For me to leave the airport is an undertaking. I lack reliable transportation. Remember woodstock? I didn't make it home, and that was essentially a trip to Annapolis.
However, I'll also tell you that my level of interest in hearing what the prez has to say is minimal.
My lack of attendance for an oldschool corperate 'powerpoint meeting' may give you some insight as to my views on meetings, and even a bit into my oppinions of the ushpa (be careful though), but please do not make the leap to it being the downfall of our sport. That's just insulting.
What I would suggest is that you look at this from a different perspective.
You've identified something that doesn't work.
Midweek powerpoint meetings do not draw a crowd... even if you pay them.
Perhaps it would be money/time/effort best spent elsewhere.
I can't tell you how many powerpoint presentations I (and many others) actively avoided in corperate america. Perhaps a different approach is in order?
There has also been a change in the CHGPA over the past few years that have contributed to the lack of attendance. Whether good or bad, the changes still exist. Changes such as:
No regularly scheduled newsletter has caused a lack of community within our local membership.
Many long time pilots have moved away from area (i.e. The Tjadens, BVH, Sparky, Mike C, Mike B, etc)
A lot of our "Core" pilots Aerotow vice Mountain Launch hence the growing Ridgely "Community"
A lot of our "Core" pilots are Military/Government/Airline, etc that require hours outside of the normal 9-5. Some of us are at work at 6:00am and work until 6:00pm. By the time we fight the @$^@ Northern VA traffic to get home, the last thing we want to do is leave the house again to fight traffic to go to a meeting to get home late and get less sleep than we already get.
As for the USHPA President speaking, I can say for myself that USHPA has made some piss poor decisions in supporting the Hang Gliding community so as Jim said, sitting thru a Happy Feely Powerpoint presentation is the last thing I feel like doing.
As for offering $1000 for pilots to come to a meeting, BREAKING NEWS, we aren't Whores. If we have that kind of money just laying around, maybe we could invest it into paying someone to update the rosters and/or send out newsletters on a reoccuring basis. Kind of hard to beg for a community when the only community we have is showing up at a meeting 3 times a year + a Christmas party.
I don't know what the answer is, and I'm open to change but sometimes life outside of hang gliding takes priority. When I retire and don't have to worry about outside life, then count me in at all the meetings, but where I work, things don't revolve around a 9-5 life. What I would give for a 9-5 job, and what my wife would give for a 9-5 job. I'd love to spend more time with her too, but unfortunately we are both exhausted when we get home. If I have to choose between some quality time in the evenings with my wife and ANY other thing, shes going to win out. Thats the way the big ball bounces...
C
No regularly scheduled newsletter has caused a lack of community within our local membership.
Many long time pilots have moved away from area (i.e. The Tjadens, BVH, Sparky, Mike C, Mike B, etc)
A lot of our "Core" pilots Aerotow vice Mountain Launch hence the growing Ridgely "Community"
A lot of our "Core" pilots are Military/Government/Airline, etc that require hours outside of the normal 9-5. Some of us are at work at 6:00am and work until 6:00pm. By the time we fight the @$^@ Northern VA traffic to get home, the last thing we want to do is leave the house again to fight traffic to go to a meeting to get home late and get less sleep than we already get.
As for the USHPA President speaking, I can say for myself that USHPA has made some piss poor decisions in supporting the Hang Gliding community so as Jim said, sitting thru a Happy Feely Powerpoint presentation is the last thing I feel like doing.
As for offering $1000 for pilots to come to a meeting, BREAKING NEWS, we aren't Whores. If we have that kind of money just laying around, maybe we could invest it into paying someone to update the rosters and/or send out newsletters on a reoccuring basis. Kind of hard to beg for a community when the only community we have is showing up at a meeting 3 times a year + a Christmas party.
I don't know what the answer is, and I'm open to change but sometimes life outside of hang gliding takes priority. When I retire and don't have to worry about outside life, then count me in at all the meetings, but where I work, things don't revolve around a 9-5 life. What I would give for a 9-5 job, and what my wife would give for a 9-5 job. I'd love to spend more time with her too, but unfortunately we are both exhausted when we get home. If I have to choose between some quality time in the evenings with my wife and ANY other thing, shes going to win out. Thats the way the big ball bounces...
C
As much as I understand Mark and Matthew's frustration, I also find it little helpful to go around pointing fingers.
This region has as many short comings as it is blessed with many dedicated pilots who are willing to go way out of their way to help and contribute. Your melodramatic tunes and accusations are quite insulting. Meeting attendance is a poor tool to gauge the viability of hang gliding.
I live in Bethesda and my life isn't 9-5 either, unfortunately. The last time I made the trip the beltway horror translated 10 miles into a solid hour of stop and go. Time, location and style of the meeting make clear that they were chosen by people who live and work in DC. Here are my main gripes with it:
- Location and time suck. What's wrong with Friday nights? What's wrong with weekends? What's wrong with a fun place?
- The pseudo-bureaucratic style sucks even more. What's wrong with fun, beer and pizza?
- you whine about the lack of H2's and P2's? Identify the bottlenecks. They're as obvious as they are tight. Speaking from my (recent) experience as a H2, the Capital club is not involved enough with those who dream of their first mountain flight. The Capital club is not reaching out to students with mentorship, advice and guidance. Things are going fundamentally wrong in this department. I have many ideas and I'm willing to play my part if there's a genuine drive to give it a shot. Providing 2 observers doesn't quite cut it.
This region has as many short comings as it is blessed with many dedicated pilots who are willing to go way out of their way to help and contribute. Your melodramatic tunes and accusations are quite insulting. Meeting attendance is a poor tool to gauge the viability of hang gliding.
I live in Bethesda and my life isn't 9-5 either, unfortunately. The last time I made the trip the beltway horror translated 10 miles into a solid hour of stop and go. Time, location and style of the meeting make clear that they were chosen by people who live and work in DC. Here are my main gripes with it:
- Location and time suck. What's wrong with Friday nights? What's wrong with weekends? What's wrong with a fun place?
- The pseudo-bureaucratic style sucks even more. What's wrong with fun, beer and pizza?
- you whine about the lack of H2's and P2's? Identify the bottlenecks. They're as obvious as they are tight. Speaking from my (recent) experience as a H2, the Capital club is not involved enough with those who dream of their first mountain flight. The Capital club is not reaching out to students with mentorship, advice and guidance. Things are going fundamentally wrong in this department. I have many ideas and I'm willing to play my part if there's a genuine drive to give it a shot. Providing 2 observers doesn't quite cut it.
This was a chance to speak to the president, not just listen to the power point presentation. People could have expressed their concerns regarding USHPA decisions DIRECTLY to the president.
Alot of us who attended also work until 6:00 pm, were exhausted, fought traffic, etc. I go out of a sense of obligation, not for the fun of it anymore. Attendence at the meetings keeps falling. Should we stop having them altogether? Not even have a full board of directors - just have a treasurer to collect dues and pay taxes? Our goal of getting new pilots from meetings doesn't seem to work that well. We can probably coordinate projects etc just through the list server. Then we could stop fighting about people not going to the meetings.
Karen
Alot of us who attended also work until 6:00 pm, were exhausted, fought traffic, etc. I go out of a sense of obligation, not for the fun of it anymore. Attendence at the meetings keeps falling. Should we stop having them altogether? Not even have a full board of directors - just have a treasurer to collect dues and pay taxes? Our goal of getting new pilots from meetings doesn't seem to work that well. We can probably coordinate projects etc just through the list server. Then we could stop fighting about people not going to the meetings.
Karen
Karen Carra
I'm sitting in the amsterdam airport looking for entertainment, so am glad to see some entertaining emotions flying around.
Chris - I admit to being out of it. What exact poor USPA decisions are you talking about? If they provide insurance and some uniformity in training and ratings, I'll give them my money and sort of ignore anything else they do as window dressing. I'll have to admit the sport pilot track is not window dressing, if that's what you're talking about. From the High Rock incident a few years ago I think they've done a pretty good job providing legal protection to the local clubs.
H2 numbers are pretty random, and with an average of maybe 3 a year you have to expect to have zero at times. It's like global warming, where only the long term trend is significant. But the trend has been downwards. With the internet the information is more accessible than ever (but keep handing out flyers to support the local instructors!). I think the real barrier is the cost. Not sure how anything can be cheaper unless we get the numbers up - it's a vicious cycle.
Is the area really down to only two observers? Ack.
Chris - I admit to being out of it. What exact poor USPA decisions are you talking about? If they provide insurance and some uniformity in training and ratings, I'll give them my money and sort of ignore anything else they do as window dressing. I'll have to admit the sport pilot track is not window dressing, if that's what you're talking about. From the High Rock incident a few years ago I think they've done a pretty good job providing legal protection to the local clubs.
H2 numbers are pretty random, and with an average of maybe 3 a year you have to expect to have zero at times. It's like global warming, where only the long term trend is significant. But the trend has been downwards. With the internet the information is more accessible than ever (but keep handing out flyers to support the local instructors!). I think the real barrier is the cost. Not sure how anything can be cheaper unless we get the numbers up - it's a vicious cycle.
Is the area really down to only two observers? Ack.
Brian Vant-Hull
Killing the Club
First off. Neither I nor anyone else has pointed any fingers. It would be pretty easy to do so. But it hasn't been done.
Second. No one has been berated. And as to berating, it does work. Anger and guilt are great motivators... as is praise. Reward and punishment. That's how you get most people to do things.
But onto business--- let's outsource and streamline the club.
We don't have any new members to take over club duties and we have a bunch of older pilots who helped out in the past and feel they no longer need to contribute. We also have pilots who only tow and don't come out to the mountains or participate in club activites.
So I propose we---
Raise dues by 25 dollars per year. We haven't had a dues increase in nearly ten years.
We outsourse the roster, database and newsletter editorial duties to India. We publish the newsletter online in a blog form to further simplify editing. We make it a quarterly newsletter. We outsource collection of dues as well-- the sending out of billing statements. We turn over the names of all people who are flying our sites and delinquent on their dues to a collection agency.
We streamline the BOD to a Prez, Treasurer and Social Director (in charge of Pulpit Fly-In, dealing with media requests and providing info to new or new to the area pilots).
We cease all participation in PR events such as the kite festival and the Udvar Hazy events. I don't think any othe club in the mid-Atlantic is invovled in any PR events. So why should we bother?
We have an annual meeting at a nice hotel meeting room with food provided.. cash bar. The meeting being held each May. The Mountaineers only have an annual meeting and they seem to do fine.
We still have an X-mas party.
We hire day laborers to work at site clean-ups and site improvements.
We'll vote on these proposals at the next meeting. If you don't like it and you don't come to the meeting to vote, then TOO BAD!!!
Matthew
Second. No one has been berated. And as to berating, it does work. Anger and guilt are great motivators... as is praise. Reward and punishment. That's how you get most people to do things.
But onto business--- let's outsource and streamline the club.
We don't have any new members to take over club duties and we have a bunch of older pilots who helped out in the past and feel they no longer need to contribute. We also have pilots who only tow and don't come out to the mountains or participate in club activites.
So I propose we---
Raise dues by 25 dollars per year. We haven't had a dues increase in nearly ten years.
We outsourse the roster, database and newsletter editorial duties to India. We publish the newsletter online in a blog form to further simplify editing. We make it a quarterly newsletter. We outsource collection of dues as well-- the sending out of billing statements. We turn over the names of all people who are flying our sites and delinquent on their dues to a collection agency.
We streamline the BOD to a Prez, Treasurer and Social Director (in charge of Pulpit Fly-In, dealing with media requests and providing info to new or new to the area pilots).
We cease all participation in PR events such as the kite festival and the Udvar Hazy events. I don't think any othe club in the mid-Atlantic is invovled in any PR events. So why should we bother?
We have an annual meeting at a nice hotel meeting room with food provided.. cash bar. The meeting being held each May. The Mountaineers only have an annual meeting and they seem to do fine.
We still have an X-mas party.
We hire day laborers to work at site clean-ups and site improvements.
We'll vote on these proposals at the next meeting. If you don't like it and you don't come to the meeting to vote, then TOO BAD!!!
Matthew
Although I understand your sentiment about going out of a sense of obligation, understand that many of us have other obligations that far outweigh a Hang Gliding meeting.
Addressing your point about gaining new members thru the meeting, I have to say that since I've been in this community, we have "grown" very few (if any) new members out of our Monthly/Quarterly meetings. Parlimentary procedure, combined with a few flying stories at the beginning on a meeting will probably not grow a real enthusiasm in our sport. Usually the people that have shown up at the meetings have been either Richard or John's students. I don't think our current method in the way we hold meetings brings enough "umph" to truly gain new pilots. Especially if we only hold them 3 times a year.
Unfortunately, we have failed to provide for a true hang gliding community due to our lack of contact with each other outside of the mountains. Ridgely & Blue Sky hold regular events that bring people together to fly & commune (hence community). The CHGPA has 3 quarterly meetings, a Christmas Party, and the Pulpit Fly-In. As our Monthly meetings fell to Quarterly, our Monthly Newsletter fell to a quarterly newsletter to no newsletter at all. And as mentioned before our roster is in disarry so no one knows who really is and is not part of the CHGPA. If no one including the current membership hears about the CHGPA, sees other people from the CHGPA, etc its hard to feel a sense of obligation or a sense of belonging to the group. Especially when you can't get yourself on the roster for 3 years ... but thats just a personal bitch.
I was Flight Director for 2 years, Pulpit Fly-in Director two other years outside of the "elected" position because no one volunteered, designed the CHGPA logo. I've tried to do my part over the years but my life is significantly more hectic than it has been in the past. I don't know what the answer is to "fix" the problem. Clearly, we have to bring our community together more often than 4 times a year, but I also understand that its hard to coordinate peoples schedules. Our HG community is older with the majority of pilots being over the age of 40. That means it competes with family, careers, church, kids, schools, etc. I think I speak for all of us in our desire to fly and our love for the sport. I fly much less than I used to and DEFINATELY much less than I want to, but unfortunately some of us have screwed up priorities that place hang gliding lower than some.
Addressing your point about gaining new members thru the meeting, I have to say that since I've been in this community, we have "grown" very few (if any) new members out of our Monthly/Quarterly meetings. Parlimentary procedure, combined with a few flying stories at the beginning on a meeting will probably not grow a real enthusiasm in our sport. Usually the people that have shown up at the meetings have been either Richard or John's students. I don't think our current method in the way we hold meetings brings enough "umph" to truly gain new pilots. Especially if we only hold them 3 times a year.
Unfortunately, we have failed to provide for a true hang gliding community due to our lack of contact with each other outside of the mountains. Ridgely & Blue Sky hold regular events that bring people together to fly & commune (hence community). The CHGPA has 3 quarterly meetings, a Christmas Party, and the Pulpit Fly-In. As our Monthly meetings fell to Quarterly, our Monthly Newsletter fell to a quarterly newsletter to no newsletter at all. And as mentioned before our roster is in disarry so no one knows who really is and is not part of the CHGPA. If no one including the current membership hears about the CHGPA, sees other people from the CHGPA, etc its hard to feel a sense of obligation or a sense of belonging to the group. Especially when you can't get yourself on the roster for 3 years ... but thats just a personal bitch.
I was Flight Director for 2 years, Pulpit Fly-in Director two other years outside of the "elected" position because no one volunteered, designed the CHGPA logo. I've tried to do my part over the years but my life is significantly more hectic than it has been in the past. I don't know what the answer is to "fix" the problem. Clearly, we have to bring our community together more often than 4 times a year, but I also understand that its hard to coordinate peoples schedules. Our HG community is older with the majority of pilots being over the age of 40. That means it competes with family, careers, church, kids, schools, etc. I think I speak for all of us in our desire to fly and our love for the sport. I fly much less than I used to and DEFINATELY much less than I want to, but unfortunately some of us have screwed up priorities that place hang gliding lower than some.
I would throw in that Friday night meetings or even Friday night "Get-Togethers" might draw more people out as they don't have to worry about getting up at the crack of dawn to go into work. The old days of HG movies prior to the meeting with beer & food (not necessarily good food ... but bar food none the less) lends to excitement.
Out of curiosity ... how is the MHGA membership, meeting attendance, etc? Are we doing significantly worse or is this just a current trend? How about the PA folks? It might just be part of the Ebb & Flow in the community.
Out of curiosity ... how is the MHGA membership, meeting attendance, etc? Are we doing significantly worse or is this just a current trend? How about the PA folks? It might just be part of the Ebb & Flow in the community.
Matthew, if you don't think you're coming off as a rude @hole right now, you might want to rethink things. If you think that it's helping, well... you're just flat out wrong. The sarcasm isn't helping either. Insulting people doesn't help them join you in a cause. In fact it does quite the opposite.
People are telling you what's really going on and you're brushing them off and insulting them.
Batman is spot on.
RedBaron is spot on.
ESP:
Indeed.
People are telling you what's really going on and you're brushing them off and insulting them.
Batman is spot on.
RedBaron is spot on.
ESP:
What's wrong with fun, beer and pizza?
Indeed.
Well, as a matter of fact we DID adjourn to Capitol City Brewing Company for beer and hors d'oeuvres. I'm a bureaucrat so I LOVE PowerPoint - but I'm not a big organizational development fan. That said, Lisa and the Board of USHPA seem to have thought a lot about the long term downward trend, the underlying reasons for it, and have developed some well-thought-out actions to try to remediate it. It's no sure thing that anything USHPA does will succeed in growing the sport - and as long as I can fly for the next 20 years or so, I suppose I don't give a damn. It's not just hang-gliding - hunting is down too. People are just outsourcing their lives to television.
At the level of the local clubs, we're floundering. MHGA has been on life-support for some time. Everything depends on a few energetic individuals to get things done. Acknowledging people's unique life situations, if you see a need, PLEASE pitch in and fill it. Even complaining is useful, since it may motivate someone to get up off his/her keister and do something - but help is better!
We complain about "less camaraderie" - but my feeling is that the sense of community is still there in spades, just not necessarily manifested in club activities. I still feel like I got dozens of new friends by being involved in this sport, and it's a big part of why I love it.
I think we do have considerably more than two observers - I think they are listed on the webpage somewhere, but there's me, Matthew, John Middleton (ex officio as an instructor?), Tom McG., Bacil, Shawn, Steve...
I don't see tow parks as a bad thing - they are another foundation of the sport. If they create their own communities, more power to them and I'll join.
Come on out to the High Rock fly-in 13 October - and be sure to say "thanks" to Richard Hays and his family for putting it all on themselves - and join MHGA, too. No PowerPoints. Now there's an opportujnity for some camaraderie!
- Hugh
At the level of the local clubs, we're floundering. MHGA has been on life-support for some time. Everything depends on a few energetic individuals to get things done. Acknowledging people's unique life situations, if you see a need, PLEASE pitch in and fill it. Even complaining is useful, since it may motivate someone to get up off his/her keister and do something - but help is better!
We complain about "less camaraderie" - but my feeling is that the sense of community is still there in spades, just not necessarily manifested in club activities. I still feel like I got dozens of new friends by being involved in this sport, and it's a big part of why I love it.
I think we do have considerably more than two observers - I think they are listed on the webpage somewhere, but there's me, Matthew, John Middleton (ex officio as an instructor?), Tom McG., Bacil, Shawn, Steve...
I don't see tow parks as a bad thing - they are another foundation of the sport. If they create their own communities, more power to them and I'll join.
Come on out to the High Rock fly-in 13 October - and be sure to say "thanks" to Richard Hays and his family for putting it all on themselves - and join MHGA, too. No PowerPoints. Now there's an opportujnity for some camaraderie!
- Hugh
Where's the Love?
Being a rude a-hole????
Moi?????
NO. Never.
You're kidding? Right?
Me???
How could you possibly think that when my messages are so full of LOVE?
LOVE! LOVE! LOVE!
As to helping-- I'm always helping.
HELP! HELP! HELP!
Help and Love. Love and Help. That's what I'm all about.
As to helping with the issue at hand-- got pilots thinking, got pilots discussing, Janni is in for helping.
I've made some very specific ideas on what to do for the future of our club. I'd like to hear some more.
Sounds like helping to me. And, again, I haven't insulted anyone.
As to sarcasm-- its a wonderful tool. Beats resorting to vulgarity any day.
Matthew
PS Not the warm and fuzzy Happy Birthday Matthew messages I'd hoped to get today.
Where's the LOVE??? :)
Moi?????
NO. Never.
You're kidding? Right?
Me???
How could you possibly think that when my messages are so full of LOVE?
LOVE! LOVE! LOVE!
As to helping-- I'm always helping.
HELP! HELP! HELP!
Help and Love. Love and Help. That's what I'm all about.
As to helping with the issue at hand-- got pilots thinking, got pilots discussing, Janni is in for helping.
I've made some very specific ideas on what to do for the future of our club. I'd like to hear some more.
Sounds like helping to me. And, again, I haven't insulted anyone.
As to sarcasm-- its a wonderful tool. Beats resorting to vulgarity any day.
Matthew
PS Not the warm and fuzzy Happy Birthday Matthew messages I'd hoped to get today.
Where's the LOVE??? :)
Happy Birthday, Matthew! How old are you? About 30? it's not your fault you were born in Noo Yawk...
While Matthew's in-your-face people skills may be irritating, he deserves props for taking long-term responsibility for keeping the club going. He serves as the institutional memory, the outreach coordinator and greeter of newcomers, the recruitment and nominating committee for club officers (how do you think I got dragooned into this job?), cheerleader and - yes - self-appointed noodge who bugs people about paying their dues and showing up for club functions. He's been an ex-officio member of the board since I can remember. If someone with kinder/gentler people skills will start taking on this sort of encompassing responsibility, then I will personally fire Matthew and cast him into outer darkness. But somehow I don't think that's going to happen...
- Hugh
While Matthew's in-your-face people skills may be irritating, he deserves props for taking long-term responsibility for keeping the club going. He serves as the institutional memory, the outreach coordinator and greeter of newcomers, the recruitment and nominating committee for club officers (how do you think I got dragooned into this job?), cheerleader and - yes - self-appointed noodge who bugs people about paying their dues and showing up for club functions. He's been an ex-officio member of the board since I can remember. If someone with kinder/gentler people skills will start taking on this sort of encompassing responsibility, then I will personally fire Matthew and cast him into outer darkness. But somehow I don't think that's going to happen...
- Hugh
-
bustedwing2
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- Location: McConnellsburg,Pa
2cents
I usually leave for work at 1pm,today got home at 2am,yesterday 3am,till I'm done tomorrow(sat),67.5 hours on the time clock this week,plus 14 hours commute time which is normally only12 per week.I fly for fun, not money(1,000!).Wed was 13.5 on the clock,by the end of the week that 13.5 is ot.Haven't done much flying this year,my loss.Available time off is on weekends.High gas prices and a tight budget limits me to Pulpit,Bills,or High Rock.How about meetings at a flying site on sat or sun that has potential to be flown that weekend, a date could be picked and posted with site to be announced by the weather gurus as you all do every weekend anyway.A bit less formal for meetings but probably more palatable for us blue collar types,I expect Lisa Tate wouldn't have minded the atmosphere since USHPA is a flying organization,and probably have enjoyed it.To simplify food logistics pizza and a keg would suffice and avoid the trouble of dragging grills etc around. RichB
What Hugh said.
I'll sometimes pick on Matthew for uncourtly skills of diplomacy, but he's more likely to get things done than nearly anyone else I know. I'd call it more than a fair trade.
Besides, anyone turning 50 would be a bit crotchety.
Happy birthday, you old lovable toothless geezer!
(what, are my numbers off?)
I'll sometimes pick on Matthew for uncourtly skills of diplomacy, but he's more likely to get things done than nearly anyone else I know. I'd call it more than a fair trade.
Besides, anyone turning 50 would be a bit crotchety.
Happy birthday, you old lovable toothless geezer!
(what, are my numbers off?)
Brian Vant-Hull
50??? 56???
Jeesh, I'm getting older by the minute. Thanks everyone.
Jim,
Would you please send me you email address? A friend from work is going to NZ at the end of November and wanted to know if it was okay to contact you and, perhaps, meet you if you are in NZ at that time.
My email address is mcgraham20@hotmail.com
Matthew
Jim,
Would you please send me you email address? A friend from work is going to NZ at the end of November and wanted to know if it was okay to contact you and, perhaps, meet you if you are in NZ at that time.
My email address is mcgraham20@hotmail.com
Matthew
Hey ... Happy Birthday, Matthew!!!
I was really tempted to come to DC for the meeting ... the bonus $ would've defrayed costs, but Wednesdays are choir rehearsal nights.
I wish I could be there for the High Rock party.
I miss hanging with you CHGPA-ers (and MHGA-ers , and Hyner-ites, and Mountaineers too)
I was really tempted to come to DC for the meeting ... the bonus $ would've defrayed costs, but Wednesdays are choir rehearsal nights.
I wish I could be there for the High Rock party.
I miss hanging with you CHGPA-ers (and MHGA-ers , and Hyner-ites, and Mountaineers too)
'Spark
I have to take some heat, for starting this thread with a very reactive post
complaining about the lack of attendence at our last CHGPA meeting.
Usually I convince myself not to hit the 'Submit' button until the next day,
when a cooler temper has usually prevailed.
Jim, Chris, Rich, and others: Apologies, my "wake up people!" rant was not meant
to be perceived as finger-pointing at specific individuals. I am well aware
that we all lead busy lives, and that flying, and club meetings, must often
take second-place to other responsibilities and priorities.
So perhaps I should have said something along these lines instead:
of the non-bureaucratic topics that came up during Lisa's presentation.
For example:
A) Did you know that USHPA has managed to save a venerable site in Montana,
through direct negotiations with the FAA, an FAA contractor, and the mayor
and town council of the city where the site is located?
B) Did you know that the HG membership has peaked and is declining (most
will already know that), and that the **PG membership** has been flat for
at least three years? I had no idea of the latter.
C) Did you know that a survey of 300+ recently-rated HG pilots had been
undertaken, and that a very large number (over 60% ?) had been
found to have dropped out of the sport within 6 months of their rating?
And that the reason seems to be that they had no help transitioning
from an instructor/school to flying at their local sites?
D) Did you know that the average age of newly-rated PG pilots is
somewhere around the upper 30s? Almost as 'grey' as new HG pilots?
(apologies about D, I can't remember the exact figure, but I do know
that the figure was very surprising. Maybe even in the 40's for both?)
Listening to the presentation, I couldn't help but think that we (locally)
and USHPA (nationally) have to undertake some major efforts if we don't
want to see our sports wither away.
And unfortunately, SO VERY FEW pilots were present to see and hear that
message, and to get a sense of how serious things really are.
I sensed a lost opportunity: With more pilots present, we could
have had lots more input, many more ideas could have been bounced
around, and maybe we'd even get some of the newer pilots fired up to
make some changes and shake things up.
It was this impression of an opportunity lost which then led to my rant.
Sorry about that, not very constructive, as Jim correctly pointed out.
There have been some good ideas tossed around in this thread. One that
has me going "Doh!" is the observation that we don't *have* to meet on
Wednesdays. Why not Friday, when the anticipation of flying the next
day will add energy and excitement to any meeting? Can't believe I
never thought of that one myself!
But an online forum can't substitute for face-to-face discussion.
I wonder how many ideas we will have missed out on by not having
a critical mass for last week's meeting? It seems a shame.
MarkC
PS: Matthew's posts might be sarcastic, but don't underestimate the
effectiveness of being a pain in the butt. Even when we had a regular
newsletter and meeting place, it was during Matthew's itinerary as
treasurer that we had the best membership numbers (at least since
1996 or so). Why? Because he cajoled and guilted people into paying
their dues. Even to the extent of individual phone calls to the
'dead beats'. You need people like that in volunteer organizations
like ours.
Even if they *are* really, really, old! (sorry Matthew, couldn't
resist that one!)
complaining about the lack of attendence at our last CHGPA meeting.
Usually I convince myself not to hit the 'Submit' button until the next day,
when a cooler temper has usually prevailed.
Jim, Chris, Rich, and others: Apologies, my "wake up people!" rant was not meant
to be perceived as finger-pointing at specific individuals. I am well aware
that we all lead busy lives, and that flying, and club meetings, must often
take second-place to other responsibilities and priorities.
So perhaps I should have said something along these lines instead:
And it probably would have been much more constructive to outline someWith 230 registered forum users, we couldn't even come close to fielding
10% of that number for a truly unusual club meeting opportunity? That seems
like a pretty pathetic turnout, don't ya think?
of the non-bureaucratic topics that came up during Lisa's presentation.
For example:
A) Did you know that USHPA has managed to save a venerable site in Montana,
through direct negotiations with the FAA, an FAA contractor, and the mayor
and town council of the city where the site is located?
B) Did you know that the HG membership has peaked and is declining (most
will already know that), and that the **PG membership** has been flat for
at least three years? I had no idea of the latter.
C) Did you know that a survey of 300+ recently-rated HG pilots had been
undertaken, and that a very large number (over 60% ?) had been
found to have dropped out of the sport within 6 months of their rating?
And that the reason seems to be that they had no help transitioning
from an instructor/school to flying at their local sites?
D) Did you know that the average age of newly-rated PG pilots is
somewhere around the upper 30s? Almost as 'grey' as new HG pilots?
(apologies about D, I can't remember the exact figure, but I do know
that the figure was very surprising. Maybe even in the 40's for both?)
Listening to the presentation, I couldn't help but think that we (locally)
and USHPA (nationally) have to undertake some major efforts if we don't
want to see our sports wither away.
And unfortunately, SO VERY FEW pilots were present to see and hear that
message, and to get a sense of how serious things really are.
I sensed a lost opportunity: With more pilots present, we could
have had lots more input, many more ideas could have been bounced
around, and maybe we'd even get some of the newer pilots fired up to
make some changes and shake things up.
It was this impression of an opportunity lost which then led to my rant.
Sorry about that, not very constructive, as Jim correctly pointed out.
There have been some good ideas tossed around in this thread. One that
has me going "Doh!" is the observation that we don't *have* to meet on
Wednesdays. Why not Friday, when the anticipation of flying the next
day will add energy and excitement to any meeting? Can't believe I
never thought of that one myself!
But an online forum can't substitute for face-to-face discussion.
I wonder how many ideas we will have missed out on by not having
a critical mass for last week's meeting? It seems a shame.
MarkC
PS: Matthew's posts might be sarcastic, but don't underestimate the
effectiveness of being a pain in the butt. Even when we had a regular
newsletter and meeting place, it was during Matthew's itinerary as
treasurer that we had the best membership numbers (at least since
1996 or so). Why? Because he cajoled and guilted people into paying
their dues. Even to the extent of individual phone calls to the
'dead beats'. You need people like that in volunteer organizations
like ours.
Even if they *are* really, really, old! (sorry Matthew, couldn't
resist that one!)
I don't think there would be any resistance to trying Friday meetings with a Happy Hour component. I would just warn against over-optimism that any of this will work: we've tried moving from Maryland to Virginia, we've cut meetings back to three a year, we've tried meeting at people's houses (seems like the tree-kit/extraction presentation at Ellis' house was a relative big hit), we thought having the national president would be a big draw. Turns out it wasn't. Bottom line is that more people are interested in technical flying topics than in organizational ones - and that in general, some people will come to meetings - but most people just won't, no matter what you do. Now they will come to parties - which, by the way, is the next "meeting" for the holiday season. {Where??? Any volunteers to have it at their house?} Also, we haven't had a parachute repack recently... - Hugh