Pulpit 1/30

[markc]

A true figure eight would result in zero net "creep" up the field : The two successive S-turns would take you right back to your start point. And as Danny says, following that sort of flight path would definitely require periods where you are practically turning your back on the field.

Thinking about that first mtn flight of mine.... I don't think my approach was a "true figure 8". I remember two passes at the end of the field, turning for the third pass, and then turning onto final when I was at the mid-point of the field. I definitely wasn't ever on a heading that put my intended landing point over my shoulder and a bit behind me. I wish I could diagram what I remember : Basically, I "swung wide" at one corner of the field, eating up some real estate, and then pointed back to the opposite corner, on a diagonal, after completing the turn. So think more like "rounded triangles". Does that make any sense?

I didn't feel like what I was doing was particularly difficult: If you start the turns relatively low (a few times tree-line height), and are on a low-perf glider, then even if you *do* creep up the field a bit things will probably work out ok. If you are careful, maintain your speed, and don't lose reference with the intended landing area.

And thinking back to recent high-wind approaches, I don't think that those have been "true figure 8's" either! One context I've used them is when landing out on a strong day : If I haven't had the luxury of multiple box-the-field passes, then I'll hang out at the end of the field doing those "triangle" turns, using them to judge the wind and to observe what's happening on the ground. And since my XC LZs are usually frickin' huge compared to our primary LZ's, it's like "Field creep? Who cares!"

This is turning out to be a fun topic... But I hope Amy doesn't think we've taken it over, the first order of business should still be to say CONGRATS! on her first mtn flight.

MarkC

[uplandann]

Hey Amy,
Congrats on your first Mtn. flight, and you soared too!! How long did you stay up?
Sorry about a less-than-happy-landing. Hope you have a good time in Florida, where it is warm.

Ann

[Dan T]

As Danny Brotto pointed out, boring landings are the best kind.

On every flight I make my transition from flying attitude to landing attitude starts with "how can I make this a boring landing?" I achieve boring landings when I can land into the wind, with a long final, and touch down with plenty of open space in front of me. If you can plan your approach so you can safely make a long final into the wind your boring landing successes will improve markedly.

Take advantage of your novice glider's glide angle. It will forgive somewhat less than perfect turn points and still leave plenty of room to put the glider down near the middle of any of our primary LZs. I contend that pilots should plan their approach with a target spot in mind until they get turned onto final. At that point, assuming you are on safe approach line, forget the spot, keep the speed up and let the glider tell you when to flair. That makes for boring landings!

Dan

[jyoder111]

How about Restricted Field Landings? I read somewhere that it's good to practice pretend RLF landings when you have lots of room and slowly tighten the box over time as you get better at it. Conditions permitting... Would either a DBF or Figure eight approach be significantly better at getting you down in a tight space? Still a lot of variables of course, like wind strength, obstacles, turbulence, etc.

[mcelrah]

Hi Jesse,

You are right about RLF - practice with an imaginary box that gets smaller.

To add to the previous discussion, which I just discovered (and all this is probably in Pagen):

the point of the DBF is that you can adjust the length of the base leg to achieve the desired height for turn to final - and if you are really high, you throw in extra base legs (sounds a lot like S- or figure 8-turns doesn't it?) as needed.

Tree lines are useful height guages. If you are directly above the inside of the tree line it's pretty hard to actually end up in a tree, or to get stuck on the wrong side of the tree line. At Woodstock, High Rock, even Pulpit, Daniel's - there are tree lines that I use to calibrate my altitude for turn to final.

Ya, if the wind is strong relative to glider speed, S-turns become a good option - in part because you are less likely to creep up the field. In a paraglider, which is equal or inferior to a Falcon in glide, we use S-turns a lot. What's important is ground track - glider orientation may be *away* from the direction of travel as you crab or even back into your desired position.

- Hugh

[A0213]

Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement regarding my first mountain flight!!

I have really enjoyed following this discussion on landing approaches- it is great to read about the different techniques, their usefulness, and how to apply them in real-life.... all things that will help everyone become a better pilot (especially the rookie over here!)

Thanks again

Amy

[XCanytime]

How about Restricted Field Landings? I read somewhere that it's good to practice pretend RLF landings when you have lots of room and slowly tighten the box over time as you get better at it. Conditions permitting... Would either a DBF or Figure eight approach be significantly better at getting you down in a tight space? Still a lot of variables of course, like wind strength, obstacles, turbulence, etc.

Jesse,
The ideal LZ would of course not be a tight space. But if that's your only option, then you better be dang good (and lucky too!) at approaches and landings to get into the space and put it down in one piece. I had an out landing at Jacks many years ago in a soccer field bordered by trees and a fence. It was quite thermally. I staged at the upwind end losing altitude and did a downwind/button hook 180 pretty high above the other end. I hit sink on the button hook 180, and this sink coupled with the increased sink rate flying fast through the turn enabled me to stuff it on final and get down. I chose the longer diagonal path and flared past the goal at the upwind end, just 10 yards from the fence. I was very lucky to have hit the sink. Otherwise, I probably would have done a figure 8 loop or two to lose altitude and then burned it in on final.

Here's what Pagen wrote in his older "Hang Gliding Flying Skills" book: "In winds above 15 MPH the downwind, base, and final approach is not advised because the downwind leg occurs so fast that it's hard to decide where to turn and head upwind. In this case the figure 8 setup works fine because not much change in heading is required in order to produce stationary figure 8s. In winds under 15 MPH, the DBF approach is recommended.

"In restricted fields and turbulent conditions, DBF is also recommended. The reason for this is less turns are required so there is less of a chance that a gust will upset you in a turn. Also, if the field is narrow you may not be able to perform the figure 8s and stay within 45 degrees (1:1 glide) with the sides of the field."
Bacil

[rlweber]

Judging angles is one of the keys to a good approach and landing. A technique that I have used and still do practice when I haven't flown for awhile is to practice judging angles in everyday life. With my glider I will use a 5 to 1 angle as my cue for starting final. When I am walking I will pick a spot that is I judge to be at a 5 to 1 angle and then pace it off to see if I am right ( I am approx 6 ft tall so I will pace off 30 ft). Pagen in his Hang Gliding Training manual, beginning on page 188 does a good job of discussing the angles and the aircraft approach. It is worth the read.

Randy